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MrBobGray

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MrBobGray last won the day on June 14

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  1. Top 5 Packers Age 25 or Younger?

    Wouldn't fight ya on any of this. Only real places I diverge a little, and to some extent this is just filling hours until Thursday: I think you're dead on with Adams, except I think we're seeing him come into that strong fit for all of them right now. By the end of the year he looked like a different player each week, and by the Lions game he looked like there was a real chance he may be that long term fit up and down the line. Still a long way away from being that guy, but he was heavy against the double, he was beating guards with the swim and centers with power. The biggest thing he needs to show is that he can do that consistently, every week, against real talent playing hard. I'll be so incredibly interested what he looks like this preseason, perhaps more than almost anyone other than MVS/EQ. 100% agree with Allison and MVS, but am probably a little higher on EQ than you. He really looks like a guy who could be a long term problem in this league; he definitely came in NFL ready, but on top of that I see a guy who's shown a massive catch radius, agility in and out of his routes, legitimate YAC ability, and the intelligence to do a lot with all of it. His routes are crisp even when he's not getting the ball, which is always a good sign for a young physical talent. He doesn't have the ceiling MVS does, but that shouldn't take away from the player he looks like he's heading toward being. I know what you're saying about Brown, that was his rep coming out, but just watching him I feel like there's a chance he'll make it work anyway (as a depth CB, specifically). He overcommits to whatever he sees, but he plays so quick and his reaction time is so fast that there's stuff you can do with that player anyway. Like you said, he goes and does, but think there's a chance that just given how quickly he does and goes that he can find a spot. Often with guys who lack that mental processing you see them over-thinking and failing to react, caught up in trying to guess what they think is happening, but Brown at least can give you a guy that'll hit what's in front of him.
  2. Top 5 Packers Age 25 or Younger?

    Since it's still the offseason for way too long, six days or whatever, going to pivot to just talking about Packers under 25 in general. Aside from whoever it was that is driving the Tony Brown fan club bandwagon, how do the rest of y'all feel about him? To be honest, I think the Packers might actually have a player there. Dude is so twitchy and fired up on every play, it looks like he's playing hopped up on something. Strong too, loves to hit at the line and then just pester people through the whole route. If his game ever matches his desire guy will be a Hall of Famer. Might try to go through his tape from the end of last season, just because I don't remember seeing many plays of him not sticky in coverage which is rare for a young guy. Also, watching the last few games of the season, Mon Adams might be about to break out in a big way. His game came a long way from the start of the year; it really looked to be slowing down for him out there. He's tough to move in the run game and has the quickness to beat his man if they drop their head trying to get some leverage. His swim move in the run game is damn good, picked up a few TFL with it. Still haven't seen him show the pass rush yet, but physically I think he can do it, just needs to keep learning how the rush game works at the pro level. He tended to out-man his guy in college, but NFL OL are too strong and hold too well. He's gotta be better about clearing hands, and more importantly keeping them off him in the first place. He's showing some signs he's picking it up, just needs to keep after it. Also, Allison should absolutely be getting some discussion in this thread really. He's absolutely still the Packers 2nd best WR, and a guy I think fans have the wrong impression of. He's long, plays the ball over the top really well, and is buttery smooth (especially for 6'3"). Runs better than people think too. Most importantly, he is far and away the Packers best scramble drill receiver; that man can find the hole in any coverage before you can say "Aaron just stay on schedule please for the love of God". I'm sure MLF is going to push Rodgers to cut down on that stuff, but it's always going to be part of his game and there's no one on the team better at it than Allison. I keep forgetting Kendall Donnerson is a person. Sure looks the part, hopefully he''ll learn how to play football at some point. Finally can't wait to see what EQ does this year. Rare to see someone that tall who can get in and out of his breaks like EQ. Very good blocker, good with the ball in his hands, didn't drop a single pass, and has the physical profile of an All-Pro. Crowded depth chart there but not sure you can keep talent like that off the field.
  3. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    Randy was so much more than just fast. He had excellent length, could play the ball as high as he felt like, could run like the wind, and had absolutely unreal hands. He also ran short stuff a lot more than people realize; there's lots of talk about his deep routes but his red zone game was equally disgusting: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfRAcckQz2s&feature=youtu.be&t=180 I'm not going to get into character discussions because a lot of that is he said she said, but his on field performance he was absolutely one of the greatest ever in many more ways than one.
  4. This is one of the things I have the most trouble with with online fandoms of any kind. It doesn't need to be us vs them when you're just talking about the players on the field. Save it for game day.
  5. I legitimately think Diggs would be a 90/1600/14 receiver in that Chiefs offense. The fact that his career YPR is like 12 is a horrifying indictment of the Vikings offense since 2015.
  6. Diggs certainly isn't at his ceiling. In fact of the three I'd say he's the farthest from it. Adams is getting close to being capped; he'll continue making incremental improvements and I think his numbers will go up as Rodgers returns to form, but he's basically what he's going to be I think. I don't see a ton of room for growth there. The body is maxed, he's at the age where he's not going to gain any speed or explosiveness, and his technique is already excellent in most areas. He improved his ability to gain separation downfield on deep routes which was probably my biggest question early in his career; his stop and go to gain separation is incredibly effective on those sideline 9 routes.
  7. I read that first sentence at least five times before actually reading "endzone" instead of "redzone". In that case, can't disagree with you on anything here. I think their hands are not significantly different, but I'll grant you that in terms of what's valuable in the redzone I'd lean Diggs as well. I can't really disagree with anything here to the degree that it would be more than pedantic nit-picking, which I'm not into. I think Adams still has a redzone lean, but I certainly agree Diggs should get more targets and is a weapon in there as well. If you can't keep him jammed up at the line his body control and suddenness are easy money in the short area stuff.
  8. Diggs is a terrible fit for that team at the moment. They don't have the OL to allow a lot of down field or long developing routes and he's a terrible run blocker when they want to run the ball outside to avoid all the DL coming unblocked up the middle. Diggs gets maybe 10-15 snaps a game where he actually gets to do what he does best. Now some of that is the inherent weakness in that type of receiver: the further down the field you excel the fewer snaps per game targeting your strength you'll get just due to the nature of the game. You have to release off the line on every snap in the passing game, but you only have to run a sharp post - corner occasionally. Diggs can do other things, but he's not special at them. But if Diggs played in an offense that more regularly and effectively targeted the intermediate / deep game, his numbers would be better.
  9. Diggs reminds me more of Jennings than anyone else on the Packers in recent years. Exceptionally dangerous and explosive at the top of his stem and out of breaks, can find the ball no matter the situation, good hands. Sharper and more explosive compared to Jennings who was buttery smooth, but I think their game plays similarly enough. Whether you take him or Adams depends a lot on what you want out of a receiver. However, Diggs being just as good a redzone receiver is a...confusing take to me. Going off the numbers since 2015: Diggs - 36 of 47, 221 yards, 6.1 YPC 14 TDs (38.8%), 19 first downs, 52.7% first down Adams - 46 of 76, 360 yards, 7.8 YPC, 27 TDs (58.6%), 36 first downs, 78.2% first down I mean, yeah usage is one thing, but Adams is averaging 1.7 more YPC, 20% higher TD%, and 26% higher first down percentage. Diggs catches a higher percentage of his targets, but that's about it. I'm not saying he isn't a good redzone weapon, he is, but Adams has been arguably the best redzone weapon in football since 2016 and I question how you can possibly give the lean to Diggs here. Adams is bigger, better off the release, and can track the ball just as well. Diggs is nasty off his break but has always struggled when people get their hands on him, which is tough to avoid in the redzone. I don't see where this isn't Adams all the way.
  10. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    Training with Moss is a nice sign for where MVS's head is at, nothing more. You like to see this from your young guys because it means they're self-directed and putting in effort to improve. He may also pick up a few small tricks that can be useful, but at the end of the day Moss isn't going to produce better training or be the catalyst for some massive improvement unless the Packers' WR coach is absolute trash. What he can pick up is what Moss found useful in his own experience, and then translate that to a better understanding of what to focus his own training on.
  11. Yeah, Clark is about right. He's a stud, but so are a lot of other guys; it's no slight on him when there's a glut of interior talent. I think he's knocking at the door of the tier below Aaron Donald. If he has another year like last year or better, I settle him in that tier. He's not the penetrator or big play maker that some of the other guys are, but he's so consistent and well-rounded.
  12. 1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

    It is an interesting discussion to wonder what the Packers will do if the best case scenario actually does play out: what do you do if Gary and both Smiths actually play up to the resources invested in them? I mean the pressure packages obviously, but in the base and heavier sets, I wonder what they'll go with.
  13. Top 5 Packers Age 25 or Younger?

    This is why I'm so excited for this year. I expect Rodgers to play better than last year, and people don't realize just how much production the offense left on the field last year. MVS alone probably lost close to 300 yards and 3-4 TDs just on stuff like this.
  14. 1[12]: Rashan Gary [EDGE; Michigan]

    Za'darius is not a full time inside guy unless you're planning on having gain 30 pounds. There's exactly 0 270 lb 3 techs in the NFL, and he's not a 5-tech. Adams will be the guy inside on early downs when Daniels leaves. The thing is having a great rotation of pass rushers is a good thing. Even if Gary ends up the player you see him as he'll still probably get less snaps than you expect if everything goes as planned. If Z and Preston play up to those contracts, we're going to have one of those best case problems of not enough snaps to go around. Eventually Gary would be an every snap guy when they leave, but no point in wearing that big body down if you can have it scary fresh for the fourth quarter.
  15. Yeah the 9-3-10-10-3-9 is everywhere now. Feels like half the pressure snaps I see are of it. They ran it a lot with Jones/Martinez last year, but it could be interesting to run something like Preston/Gary/Fackrell/Martinez/Daniels/Z (or swap Daniels/Z for Z/OLB#4 if someone really takes a jump). Lot of beef that can move there, and having three guys who can drop and be expected to actually cover something really opens up some possibilities.
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