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  1. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    Ummm...naw, you never said ANYTHING about Ben being easily replaceable...nope, didn't happen...and you've always given him credit?? Right??? Get YOUR facts straight, bub... You may not have said "Ben is easily replaceable," but you sure as heck didn't follow-up your statement with any sort of viable solution to replace Ben...so, what's the difference...really?? And Ben is bigger, stronger, more agile, and and stretch plays out better...and, OBTW, Brees is ONLY more accurate in a...wait for it...Dome...shocking... You want to argue semantics about what you said--verbatim--okay, I apologize, you never EXACTLY said that Ben was easily replaceable...my bad. BUT, since you DID say that you never particularly liked Ben, and that you are not totally against trading him or letting him walk after 2019, "O'FourkeThree"...oh yeah...I went there...... ...what exactly is your plan for back-filling Ben's absence... and while we are on the topic of saying things that weren't said... When did I ever say that it was an indisputable fact... ...so we'll just have to agree to disagree on Brees/Ben...but funny...did you notice that Ben doesn't practice in a Dome...and doesn't have home-Dome-advantage...and yet, his numbers are ALSO better in a dome, than in the elements...but wait...shouldn't he be BETTER in the elements, since that's the crux of your argument as to why Brees is better in a Dome...because he practices there?? So, your OPINION is he is better...my OPINION is that he is NOT better...as good?? sure, in different ways...but you completely missed my argument point...Brees gets every benefit of the doubt in the world, and Ben?? He can't even go to the Pro-bowl when he's led the league in Passing Yards...WITH good-to-great efficiency stats, as well... Like I said...I've researched this throughout the years...closely...and I'm not the only one who see's this....I've already quoted article after article, analysis after analysis on this stuff over the past 5-7 years, so it's not like I just woke up one day and said..."huh...I think Ben might be as good as Brees"...but I NEVER said it's indisputable fact, so, as you did say...verbatim..."so get your facts straight." STRAWMAN my butt...please...that's every forum member's favorite fallback excuse when they can't intelligibly debate a topic "you made a STRAWMAN...blah, blah, blah..." What a joke, man...your better than that...I know, because we've had some darn good debates over the years!!
  2. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    You've never really given him credit for who he is as a QB, yet easily accept Brees as a Top 4 QB time and again on the GB, etc. Why? You REALLY think Brees could have done, in Pittsburgh, what Ben has done the past 14 years? Have you looked at Brees non-dome statistics?? I have...closely...QB rating of 91, comparable TD/INT ratio (but hmm...Tampa in December, or Cleveland in December...) , 250 YPG vs Bens 260 YPG...and yeah, I get he gets to play at home outside, and Drew "doesn't", but the fact of the matter is, Brees is greatly enhanced by his environment--always has been. Then, let's not forget about 'screen pass Brees'...at least Bell ran routes down field half the time, whereas Brees, the 'Drop-off/YAC' king?? Undeniable, irrefutable facts...just like ANY QB would be better in a dome. Is Drew Brees a great QB?? Yeah...better than Ben?? No. Would NOT have wanted Brees over Ben here the past 14 years...would you...honestly? https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BreeDr00/splits/ https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RoetBe00/splits/ You used to call Steeler fans 'spoiled' for not appreciating the fact that we had things like Head Coaching consistency, Franchise QB, LeBeau, etc. And now, based upon, what exactly?? You want to dump Ben?? For who?? What QB talent have we brought in in the past 10 years leads you to believe that Ben can be so easily replaced. Brown?? Bell?? Sure. But Ben?? Sorry, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. The first season without Ben, will be Tomlin's first losing season...bank on it (assuming Tomlin is still here...and unless we for another already established top 15 NFL Starting QB...tomlin could eek out an 8-8 record, then, I'm sure).
  3. Possible Trade Options for Brown

    I don't know if this has been discussed already in the off-season thread, or the other 'Trade AB' thread, but if there is ONE thing, over the years, the Steelers have been fairly consistently go of at is letting go of players at the right time; I'm not saying AB won't be 'good', or even 'great' for someone else, but I doubt he'll be 'magical'. They would not entertain this scenario if they felt that Antonio was still 'too special' enough to keep around; they must see some slowing down in AB's game, preparation--something--for them to even entertain this. The biggest exception to this would be Emmanuel Sanders, but let's be clear--Sander is thought of as a 'Very Good' WR--not a 'game changer'. Also, if I might, when is Ben ever going to get his due...maybe if AB goes somewhere else and doesn't produce, but that will likely be tied to his age, I'm sure. But my goodness, I have never seen a ore under-appreciated QB Talent in all of the NFL, with the exception of maybe Wilson. But even Wilson has not 'created' Santonio, aforementioned Emmanuel, Brown, and now, JuJu...IDK, it could be coincidence, but to e, I think he has this innate skill to connect with WRs on a whole different level than other QBs. Oh, then all he does is lead the league in Passing yds, and can't get a Pro-Bowl invite?? But Drew Brees, well, he can fling it around a dome year after year in 70 degree weather with no wind for a minimum of 9 of 16 games a season, and well, he's one of the 'Big 4' -- gimme a break...yeah I know, bias, blah, blah, blah, but all he does is win, create great WRs, takes his team to the SB 3x (and likely would've won that 3rd if not for an ill-timed fumble), be in the top 6 in 4QC/GWD, and 10th all-time in Comp %...grasp that for a second...ahead of Steve Young, Brady, and Montana...in Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Cinci, and Baltimore...only .4% behind Mr. Accurate--Aaron Rodgers...only QB with consecutive 6 TD games,Career 6th in Yds, 7th in TDs...so on and so forth...The evidence just keeps piling up, and yet, he continues to be dissed, over and over....just amazing... ...sorry all, you know me and my rants sometimes!!
  4. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    Fair enough...but do you think Butler is on the block before next season?? Or are you saying that it will take another season of 'proof' and other roster turnovers to have a case to say 'yeah, Butler is the problem'? what I am saying, though, is, the guys that weren't performing were let go because they didn't perform at the level that the team expected them to; I don't think it was any kind of PR play, at all, TBH. (Well, I guess you could say protecting yourself from further embarrassment by one of your coaches is 'technically' PR, but I'm saying, I don't think it was to send some sort of message, or part of some more elaborate plan to shake up 'bigger' coaches on the roster.)
  5. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    It's funny...you say 'simpler', then construe two conspiracy theories... You were right at first, though, it likely was simple--he wasn't performing to the expected level in one or more phases of his job--be it scouting, player development, or other functions deemed as a responsibility of his position. Why can't it ever JUST be about that, because IMO, that is one key reason Porter was fired, and yes, attracting negative publicity to an organization is contrary to a coaches responsibilities to the team...and LB development...one out of three might be fine in the MLB, but not for a coach. (JJ, Dupree, Watt).
  6. WILDLY inconsistent....crazy, I tell you...Passer Ratings of 94.5 / 95.4 / 93.4 / 96.5 (Span of 3.1), with Comp% of 68 / 64.4 / 64.2 / 67 (Span of 3.8)...I see what you mean...poor Brown, I mean, if he only had someone as consistent as Rodgers and his ratings from 92.7 to 104.2 (Span-11.5) and Comp % from 60.7 to 65.7 (Span-5), or Brady's Span of 14.5 in Passer Rating, or Brees increase of 14 pts, while decreasing his YPG of 59 YPG , while Ben increaased his by 47 over the past 3 years?? Whew...Brown has had it really rough with a QB who goes out of his way to target a 5'10 WR in RZ over and over...more and more, year after year...You mean, Ben doesn;t have a 75% Comp%??? It's only 67%...man, Ben just really stinks...
  7. Sorry, but it's been proven for years, with articles dating back to 2010 time-frame--but to be more accurate, you should say "Payton has had Brees in a Dome for a minimum, of 9 games a year." Anytime anyone tries to argue that Brees is better than Ben, for me, that is first and foremost in my mind; Brees wouldn't be half the QB he is if he had to play in Pittsburgh, and IMO, would NOT put up as good of numbers over a career if one were to switch the out the two...and I have ZERO reservation in saying that, Ben would be sitting on 60K yards, 70% Comp %, and 400 TDs right now, if the roles were reversed. Anyway, not the point of my reply...the main point is Ben is one heck of a QB, and if Brown really did get all pissy and just up and left the team, because he doesn't think Ben has been 'good enough' this year in getting him the catches, well, good luck buddy, in finding a better one! Especially a QB that is going to have the same chemistry and trust built, that these two have over the past 5-6 years. Then, to let it completely come first?? Ahead of the team in its attempt to make the Playoffs?? I don't know. I do not necessarily agree that this will all wash under the rug by the Preseason. It certainly is possible, but I know I won't forget that, so soon, myself.
  8. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    Naw, man, not you. Sorry. I shouldn't have implied you were in that mix. You seem fairly reasonable. But make no mistake--it happened, hence, the 5th or 6th response to the OP. There were threads, posts, opinions--everything--on this forum about how Bortles was better than his numbers suggested, and it was excuse after excuse, or again, my favorite...the 'eye test', or 'mechanics', blah, blah...sorry, if the results aren't there, and yes, those are exhibited via STATS, then, as they say, 'it never happened'. Okay, everyone...TL;DR (Don't Read) from this point on, unless you want to hear my philosophy on excuses--Read at your own leisure (READ: risk). Go freshen up your coffee!!! Why do we all think Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Manning, Marino, etc., are considered the all-time greats?? Because their play resulted in wins, and stats, and sorry, Bortles first Playoff appearance was last year. Great, he's 2-1, with 3 TDs over 3 games. Hate to say it, but that is 'game management' and not screwing up too much. His Completion % still was pretty mediocre. He played the #4, #30, and #32 ranked defense last year in the playoffs, and you can tell who he played and when... Against Buffalo, the #4 D? 12/23, 87 yds (3.8 YPA...oof) 1 TD/0 INT, Rating 75.8 So, to say he played 'solid' last year in the Playoffs, is well, not accurate, IMO. He played very 'meh' against the #30 Defense, and a little better against the #32 ranked defense. But back to my main point, is the Bortles was hyped up a lot over the past 2-3 years...undeservedly...right along side Andrew Luck. Of course, the Luck Fan-Boys will all come out of the wood-work and say "See, I told you so...EYE-TEST...MECHANICS!!" Which to that I say, fantastic...glad he's FINALLY using them appropriately. "But, But, he had a great year in 2014!!" Yeah, and then he regressed for 3 years...in the meantime, other QBs, who had to face the same issues...no defensive support (Ben/Brady/Brees), or a Poor OL (Wilson's dealt with this his entire career and yet, he's been evenly successful...huh, that's weird...and to think, he's done all this while being 5'10.5" tall, so basically, without the benefit of being naturally large and strong--he must have had to work really hard...) Anyway, I'm going down a rabbit hole, sorry. Point is Bortles was 'propped up' on this forum for the past few years by some of the so-called forum QB/Draft experts or Jags fans, and again, it was excuse after excuse, useless metric after useless metric, in an attempt to 'prove' that Bortles was on his way to being a top 10 QB (or already was), and they were obviously wrong. It happens. I'm wrong 75% of the time...some here probably feel that number is closer to 90%, but so far, I've done pretty well since Wilson's 2nd season, when I became a believer, and Bortles was being hyped way-to-high...oh, and this little gem...I'm sorry, I can't get enough it...this was Aug 2017... He didn't even make it outside of the sentence before the excuses and rationalizing started coming into the debate... This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. If one has to immediately start adding 'qualifiers' to the debate, then IMO, you've already lost. Every NFL player has issues they have to deal with--get over it (not you...just in general). Here's a perfect case in point. Ben hasn't had a decent defense since 2013 ; in fact, the team was 13th overall, then faltered to tied for worst with the Saints at 411yds/gm...(Saints technically were 32, Steelers 31st), yet somehow, 2014 was one of Ben's best seasons ever. Last year, AB and Bell were an unbelievable combo, and both were 1st Tm All-Pros (That "firmly #1" guy above?? Yeah, 3rd in voting with 5 votes out of 50...while AB was a unanimous selection with 50/50 votes...) . Anyway, why are Ben's numbers up, across the board, this season??? Higher Comp %, More TDs, higher YPA and Passer Rating... Excuses are just that...excuses. Ultimately, the Stats will show the true story...not after one game, but eventually, the truth comes out...
  9. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    Obviously, but most others, typically do, which is my point. Hovering around 58% Comp % is NOT mistake free football. Just because the defender isn't there to scoop up the misfire. His career rating is 81; Career Comp % 59% and a TD-to-INT % comp of nearly 4-3, is not good football, and never has been And what big plays, exactly? Two short passes in the game-clinching drive? And yet, in the end, here we are...not but 10 games later, and he's benched. The overarching sentiment to all this being--Bortles just is not, and has not ever been, a very good QB. He's 'OK'...he's like an Andy Dalton, but worse. Bortles was being talked up to being the Jags savior; their QB of the Future for the last 3 years now, and all that's been heard and read on these forums by Jags fans, or Draft analysts that so badly want to be right about there prognostication that Bortles is going to be this great QB, is just that...that he's somehow, secretly, thei great QB, waiting to come out...like he's some Andrew Luck, or something. IDK, maybe he is. It only took Luck 6 years to figure out how to play in the NFL (oh, and here will come the Luck apologists...), maybe that's all Brtles needs...maybe he just needs 2 more years. But right now...up to this point...INCLUDING his playoff performances, have been just...OK. Meanwhile, there's this guy out west, his team literally has gone in the crapper, and he's the only one playing worth a darn, and guess what, he's still kicking butt...no excuses...no 'my RB stinks' or 'my defense isn't good' or 'my OL is terrible'...all he does is perform, and there are people STILL out there, that refuse to believe in him and what he does...and STILL think that Luck is, and has been, the better QB...it's like Bizarro world. He got no respect when his team was good, and now, that hes even better, while his team is worse, he still fails to get the credit he deserves. ...and BTW, feel free to go back and look at my assessment of Wilson coming in; I went to that Senior Bowl, and to me, he looked awful. I thought he was a HORRIBLE pick by the Seahawks that year. I was flat out wrong. Wilson is a stud. I know, I'm going off a tangent here, but my point is, so much time and breath is wasted on guys that just aren't very good, yet the good ones, can't seem to catch a break on this forum. Maybe the tide has changed some over the past couple of years; I admittedly haven;t followed as closely as I used to, but I remember a couple of years back, and Wilson was still considered a scrub, who was only propped up by his 'good team'; guess all those posters were wrong about that too. I don't have the evidence to corroborate what I'm about to say, but I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if sometime, in the last 3 years, there was a QB ranking list that had Bortles ranked higher than Wilson...or...a poster flat out stated that Bortles was better. Am I wrong? I'm just curious.
  10. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    I never said that; where did I ever say the game was a "blowout the entire time." A game doesn't have to be a blow out to be well in hand. What I WAS commenting on was your comment of: "Or when the defense faltered massively against Pittsburgh in the playoffs and Bortles and the offense had to pretty much go shot for shot with them in the 2nd half?" I was simply pointing out that in no way, shape, or form, did JAX defense 'falter massively' to the point where they had to go 'shot for shot' with them, as you alluded. Not to mention, Bortles statline was: 14/26 (53.8%) 214yds with 1TD -- that's not all-together that impressive, I'm sorry to say. Ben's statline: 37/58 (63.7%) 469yds 5 TDS 1 INT, with a Passer Rating of 110, was far more impressive. the only stat that matters is winning the game, of course, but my point is, to act like Bortles had this flawless game, and lit up the Steeler D, and he went 'Shot for Shot' with Ben, is highly over-stated. And that 'dagger of a drive' you mention, where Bortles had two short pass completions, and the rest was Fournette and/or Yeldon's YAC, well again...overstated.
  11. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    Umm...the game where JAX was winning 28-7 with less than 2 minutes to go in the 1st half, following a 50yd fumble return? If that is what you consider 'faltered massively', then I would please like to have that 'terrible' defense. Then it was 42-28 late in the 4th? Please Bortles never had to go 'toe-to-toe'--The Steelers were playing catch-up throughout the entire game; the got 'close' once in that game; the 1st drive of the 2nd half, but after that, it was pretty much game over the rest of the way.
  12. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    Well, if you're going to be so succinct and boring about it...no flair at all, man! Hahaha... Okay, never mind, we all know the truth...I'm just entirely too long-winded, but I don't like to leave anything to interpretation, LOL!!
  13. Jaguars bench QB Bortles, starting Kessler week 13

    You mean all the ones that said he was a future All-Star? The Best QB in the AFC South? Do you mean, all the threads/posts that blamed everyone and everything else on the Jaguars, or going on within the franchise, for any Bortles miscues? The threads/posts that claimed he was a better QB than Eli Manning?? Big Ben?? Rivers?? Those posts that said that if Bortles had a Defense, or a RB, or decent WRs, or TEs, or a decent OL that gave him time to throw, that he'd be a top 5 QB in the league?? Ooh, or my favorite...the 'eye-test' posts...the ones that said he just passes the 'eye-test', and his stats, such as low completion % and high INT rate were not indicative of his true talent. I'm summarizing here, of course, and 'over-selling' my point..but really, not my much. It hink it was either last season, or the season before I had a long, drawn out debate with a non-Jag fan regarding Bortles, and I was told I had no clue what I was talking about; any and all of Bortles less-than-stellar stats could be explained away by everything else that WASN'T Bortles; he really was going to break out and be the next big star. Well, it's not looking so good in Bortles' corner right now, but I'm sure, this is a misguided effort by the HC, and a mistake. Bortles just needs a better support staff, is all. If he had that, he'd be great! Too bad the other 31 starting QBs in the league don't get to use that excuse. That would be awesome. "Ben would be so much better this season, and have much fewer interceptions if he ONLY had his WR2 at his disposal this season...you know, LeVeon Bell, the guy who deserves to be paid like a RB + WR2, combined, because he plays like one. If Ben only had him, he'd probably only have like, 6 INTs, instead of 12. He'd probably lead the league in Passer rating if both Bell and Bryant were still on the team. And look at Antonio Brown; he's having a down year because he's not leading the league in Receiving Yards (nevermind his 11 TDs). And the Steelers still don;t have a true #1 TE. That's all Ben needs to be the Top QB in the league...Bell, Bryant, AB being back to his normal, 4-time 1st Team All-Pro self, and a real TE...oh, and a good defense...if he had that, he's be the best!" Or did I completely misinterpret your meaning, Manny/Patrick!?!? LOL!!
  14. The Race for Other NFL Awards Besides MVP

    Yeah, like I just mentioned... Darius Leonard--(114 Tkls, 6 Sacks, 4 FF, 2 FR, 1 INT, 3 PDs, and 6 Stfs)--tell me there's a better Rookie! Tell me there's one who's even close. I admit, there are a lot of good defensive rookie this year.
  15. The Race for Other NFL Awards Besides MVP

    I'm sorry, but Rankins has to outside the Top 10 in rankings for DPOY, at this point; he has very little other accompanying actions to support his case. For instance, I don't even think Donald has it sewn up. I agree that were the season to end today, he should win it, but I believe there are 6-8 other players that can still make a case and overtake Donald... The Watt brothers (JJ--45Tkls, 5FF, 6Stfs | TJ--50 Tkls, 4 FF, 5 Stfs), Chris Jones (INT/TD/4 PDs), Von Miller (4 FF, 4 Stfs, 1 INT), and Myles Garrett (3FF, 3PD) The only thing separating Donald from these guys if 3-5 sacks...which might be a great starting point, but not the end all, be all, of the conversation. And what about Harrison Smith (59 Tkls, 3 Sacks, 3 INTs, 3 Stfs, 1 FF) or heck, Kiko Alonso (3 Sacks, 95 Tkls, 3 FF, 3 INTs, 6 PDs...too bad he's on a losing team), and my dark horse? Darius Leonard--(ROY candidate--114 Tkls, 6 Sacks, 4 FF, 2 FR, 1 INT, 3 PDs, and 6 Stfs)--tell me there's a better Rookie! But actually, I guess you aren't too far off; the voters tend to go for massive amounts of one 'Glory stat', over a combination of great numbers across the board. If Rankins turns on the jets, and gets another 7-8 sacks in these last few games, he may start garnering more attention.