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  1. How do you guys/gals feel about the draft?

    And I never said you did present anything as fact...so we are in agreement...I said...the above...LIKE...as in, similar to...not 'is' fact... "You aren't going to make up that inch plus. Length and speed are more important than weight." But when someone states "X and Y are more important than Z," then you are attempting to make a statement, based upon...nothing...and present it LIKE it is some common-known...opinion...but that is just the point...it isn't Were people concerned about his height?? Sure. But more 'people' (to include analysts, fans, etc.) felt Bush was worthy of a top-half of the 1st Rd draft selection, than not, and though some may have mentioned his height as a detractor, he, as a 'complete package', was either at the top...or 2nd-ranked, at his position...ahead of AAALLLLL those other ILB/MLB prospects, who were taller...why do you thinks that is?? Because of this... https://www.mockdraftable.com/player/devin-bush ...he ranks near 'average; in arm length/wingspan, yet ranks way higher in speed components... ...and ultimately, 'instinct' and 'Football IQ' are likely going to make-or-break him as an ILB...which are more important than length/height, especially combined with his speed. I am more concerned about those attributes, which, IMO, were the bigger detractor than his height, to most analysts...
  2. How do you guys/gals feel about the draft?

    My point was, you are just willy-nilly picking attributes, and assigning 'relative importance' to them, like it's some fact...it's not. Whether Bush is successfulor not will not be based upon being an inch and a half shorter than half a dozen ILBs, or about an inch shorter than another 4 or 5 guys. So, how do you explain Sam Mills, or how about Zach Thomas being arguably, the Dolphins best-ever LB?? Being an inch or two shorter is nowhere near as important as the collective of other attributes... And if Bush fails...it's certainly not going to be due to his height...
  3. Are some of the old nfl qbs being overlooked

    Not only that, but assuming Passer Rating is the end-all / be-all of how QB play should be evaluated, is like using PER in the NBA as the sole indicator of success. For instance, where are the attributes such as, escape-ability, 4thQtr/GWD, environment (Dome vs warm-weather vs cold-weather), opposing Defensive ranking, so-on and so-forth. And as you nailed it on the head, JUST taking how the QB position has evolved over time, without looking at the other factors, is short-sighted. I'm not saying that this isn't an interesting read, or that it's completely invalid...it's just impossible to factor EVERYTHING in when comparing QBs, let alone, QBs from different eras...
  4. Are the Pittsburgh Steelers contenders in the AFC?

    I know many think the 'Browns are gonna Browns', and not reach their potential, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the Steelers split with the Brown, lose both to the Ravens...inexplicably, as they have seem to have done a couple of times in recent past...and if they lose one to the Bengals, that would leave them 2-4 in the Division, and even if they can pull off a 10-6 from that, they could very well lose the tie-braker to the Browns, or Ravens, or Bengals...who knows who might go 11-5, and realistically, maybe 2 x 9-7 teams, they are out of WC contention. They have the talent, of course, but they did last year, too...with AB for 15 gms, so... As a homer, of course I THINK they can win the Division, and get through the WC round, but realistically?? Most important to me is that the Defense improves, Connor stays healthy, and we have a 2nd WR emerge as a big enough threat to aid Juju...and look to be a legit threat in 2020.
  5. Training Camp 2019 news and discussion.

    That's good to know, that he has some decent game speed, especially if, heaven forbid, Bush sustained a long-term injury. VW has a lot of great qualities--speed, however, is not one of them, at least not that I have noticed. Anyway, if Gilbert shows speed, AND awareness/instincts, it'll be hard not to root for the guy. I wonder how the depth chart will shake out, after final cuts, because honestly, I'd be extremely interested in having Bush, Gilbert, and Spillane, with Barron and VW. I think our 'depth' at the ILB position needs to be re-calibrated, from last season...one of our biggest weaknesses, and, IMO, likely a contributing factor to our poor defensive numbers (other than sacks, of course), and as such, may possibly have been enough to make-up the 3 point difference from our close losses.
  6. Training Camp 2019 news and discussion.

    Did Ulysees Gilbert look as good as his stats showed? Just curious (of course, one preseason game, a career, does not make) if he looks promising as a potential 2nd string guy?
  7. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    No, no...Let's offer them Diontae Johnson and Zach Gentry for AB...and the Raiders 2020 3rd & 5th Rd picks!! Nah... we'd need a heck of a lot more than that...maybe a Helmet...and a cryotherapy machine!
  8. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    Really?? Great way to kick off your career with your brand new team, that just paid you an insane amount of money to come play for them... That goes beyond 'strange'--I'm sorry, that is just simply unprofessional.
  9. 2019 Steelers offseason news

    That...would be amazing...haha. Some talking head at ESPN, can't remember who, opined the other day that this is great news, that it isn't some other type of injury, and how either none of the Raiders' Corners can cover, or Carr and AB are about to go off this season...I'm going to go with that their Corners can't cover, haha... ...and considering how Diva-esque AB has become, wouldn't shock me if he didn't play until he was 100%. Wouldn't shock me if he pushed through the pain, either...I'm just saying, there is a higher chance of him sitting out longer, now, than say, 3-4 years ago.
  10. How do you guys/gals feel about the draft?

    So, based upon Combine measurements, here are some pretty decent ILB/MLB types who compare similarly to Devin Bush at 5' 11" 234 Denzel Perryman - 5' 10 3/4 236 Mychal Kendricks - 5' 11 1/8" 239 Eric Kendricks - 6' 1/4" 232 Bobby Wagner - 6' 3/8" 241 Lavonte David - 6' 5/8" 233 Vince Williams - 6' 3/4" 233 Wesley Woodyard - 6' 3/8" 227 Darren Lee - 6' 3/4" 233 Deion Jones - 6' 7/8" 227 Reuben Foster - 6' 1/4" 229 Roquan Smith - 6' 7/8" 236 He outweighed 7 of them, and was almost a carbon copy of 2 others... And there have been some pretty decent, productive, modern era ILB/MLB in the NFL were 6'-ish or less... Lance Briggs - 6' 5/8" 242 Navorro Bowman - 6' 1/2" 242 Jonathan Vilma - 6' 1/2" 233 Lawrence Timmons - 6' 7/8" 234 Larry Foote - 6' 7/8" 231 Jon Beason - 6' 1/4" 237 Sam Mills - 5'9" 229 Lofa Tatupu - 6' 238 Stephen Tulloch - 5' 11" 241 Pisa Tinoisamoa - 6' 3/8" 231 Personally, I'd rather have a stout 5' 11" guy at 235, than a 6'1" guy at 230...not all guys have the body to add weight effectively, without losing atheticism, and while I did not check 40-times, 3-cones, shuttles, etc, I'm fairly certain that Bush is more athletic, overall, than 80% of these guys...and the fact that we already know how athletic he is, at that weight, and knowing he's not likely going to be asked to put on much more to his frame, well, I think judging him solely based upon his height is not an accurate indicator of his success in the NFL. Same concept for CBs who are 5'11" or shorter...just because you are 5'9", or 5'10", doesn't mean you are relegated to a nickel/slot role...is it somewhat of a disadvantage?? Sure. Critical for success, or a major barrier than needs to be overcome to be successful?? No. Heck, look at QB and Russell Wilson... So, is Bush's 5'11" height ideal?? No. Will it hamper his success?? Not all by itself, it won't...not anymore than a 6'3" guy who runs a 4.75...maybe Bush gets beat by a few TEs in coverage...okay...but he'll likely be right in their hip pocket to make the tackle...the 6'3" ILB with 4.75 speed may get beat on a route due to speed, AND, won;t be able to make the tackle, because he'll already have been beat...just one example... EDIT: I can't believe I forgot Zach Thomas (5'11" 242), Derrick Brooks (6' 235), Al Wilson (6' 240), and if you want to go a little old school, Tom Jackson at (5'11" 220)
  11. Most Overrated QB's of all Time

    Honestly...do you really believe that? HOFers from that era??? Go ahead and honestly take a look, and compare like HOFers from that era... And to the bolded?? Go ahead and put Griese on the Bengals...Staubach on the 49ers...etc...I'm sure the same doesn't apply to them, only 'Steeler' greats, because, well, they were Steelers, and thus, must be hated... It's just par for the course, the Steeler hatred on this forum...they can't possibly unbiased... Swann - Not ONLY was he a 1 x 1st Tm AP All-Pro/2 x 2nd Tm All-Pro AND a SB MVP, but in his short 9 year career, he accomplished the below... Super Bowl Records (at time of retirement, 1982) • [1st] Most Receptions, Career - 16 • [1st] Most Receiving Yards, Career - 364 • [1st] Most Receiving Yards, Game - 161 (Super Bowl X) • [1st] Highest Punt Return Average, Game – 11.3 (Super Bowl IX) • [Tied for 1st] Most Touchdown Receptions, Career - 3 • [2nd] Highest Average Per Reception, Career - 22.8 • [2nd] Most Combined Net Yards, Career - 391 • [Tied for 2nd] Most Touchdowns, Career - 3 He also had the same avg yds/season and avg yds/gm (47) as Fred Biletnikoff, which was 5yds less than John Stallworth (52), and avg TDs/season as Michael Irvin, who, quite frankly, enjoyed playing in 16 game seasons, in a more pass happy NFL, throughout total career. I could fill up multiple pages defending Stallworth, Swann, Bradshaw, etc...doesn't matter though, the fact is, 'haters' opinions are impossible to sway, even with facts. IT's funny how so many are perfectly fine with Terrell Davis being in the HOF, because he dominated a couple of seasons...well, guess what, so did Swann/Stallworth, and yes, they WERE regarded as being 'elite' at the time they played, and WERE considered a top-tier/top-3 WR at varying points through their careers. Go ahead...take a REAL, unbiased, fact checking look at them all, compared to other players during their time...at age 32, in 1984, with Mark Malone/David Woodley splitting time at QB that season, meaning Stallworth was catching passes from a 2nd string QB for half the season...best fellow HOFers Steve Largeant, Art Monk, and James Lofton in Yds, including the great 'Marks' brothers (Duper/Clayton) and in TDs (for 2 of the 3), when they were in the primes of their careers (and yes, he did have to share tgts with another great WR...Lipps)...that's just one example, so yes, they (Swann/Stallworth) dominated their positional statistics while they were active...and isn't that what everyone clamors about here, as being worthy of being in the HOF?? Being one of the best at their position during their career?? Or does that only apply for Terrell Davis, who 'carried' Elway' during those seasons...or was it the other way around?? The double-standards employed on FF NFL Gen/Comp forums is rampant. "X" Steeler didn;t deserve their HOF status because...(let...me...seeeee...which double-standard can I employ on this example to make my point...never dominated position...didn't play long enough/lacked bulk stats...was carried by "X" player...ooh...was carried by Steel Curtain--that's it!! That one will fit here...) Go ahead and look--between 1975 and 1985...look at the WR stats (other than the bad statistical years due to injuries), and tell me that Swann, and/or Stallworth, were not in the mix at the top. Bottom line...Steeler haters will always come up with whatever double-standard they want, in an attempt to defend their opinion...most recently it was Bettis, the double-standard, coupled with 'revisionist history'??? Perfect recipe for "He wasn't worthy..."
  12. QB Tiers

    Of course...I see it now...thanks for the clarification...whatever was I thinking...Stafford's numbers are the same, as well, right??😎 15 Seasons of production vs 1 Season of production in the new, pass-happy, QB-friendly world we now see since 2016...yep, makes total sense to me... ...then there's the fact they both won OROY awards, and have taken their team to the SB 3x... Tell you what...Baker Mayfield has these same, or nearly the same accomplishments after 15 seasons, I'll happily place him in the same category as Big Ben...because they'll both be HOFers...
  13. QB Tiers

    PLAYER "A" Split 34,794 yds - 256.7 yds/gm - 224 TDs - 120 Ints - 65% - 90.9 Rating - 6.94 Adj Yds/Att + 39,643 yds - 309.7 yds/gm - 296 TDs - 113 Ints - 69.7% - 104.2 Rating - 8.25 Adj Yds/Att --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- PLAYER "B" Split 53,692 yds - 260.7 yds/gm - 349 TDs - 184 Ints - 64.1% - 95.2 Rating - 7.69 Adj Yds/Att + 2,502 yds - 250.2 yds/gm - 14 TDs - 6 Ints - 69.8% - 105 Rating - 8.94 Adj Yds/Att (Please excuse my semi-annual horse-beating exercise below...) Just imagine if PLAYER "B" were able to multiply his 2nd stat line 10-fold, while cutting his top stat line in half and PLAYER "A" had to divide his bottom stat line in half, but leave his top stat line as is....PLAYER "B" would be considered the 'Elite' QB, while PLAYER "A" would be considered...what was it... oh yeah...'Franchise' or 'Above Average' QB, with other players like Baker Mayfield, Matthew Stafford, and Deshaun Watson. Amazing how different their Careers might have been perceived, eh? I know, I know, you can't... 'it' doesn't work that way...but if you all can't see that 'some' QBs have not been greatly aided by the environment that they get to play in, as opposed to others...and oh BTW, the when 'not' in a dome, PLAYER "A"s division rivals are likely in 50-90 degree weather, while the others is between single digits, to 80 degree weather. Yep, I can totally see how Ben fits right there with Matthew Stafford--definitely on the same tier, while Brees is just chillin' with the cool kids, 2 tiers higher...yep, that's accurate. 👍 That might quite honestly be one of the most egregious slights against Ben's play as a QB that I have ever seen. Especially after leading the league in total yards, having a completion % of 67%, and the 2nd highest QBR in the NFL...I can totally see how that evaluation fits. Then, so this post isn't completely, 100% homerism, somebody dropped Aaron Rodgers after this season?? After posting a 25-to-2, TD-to-Int ratio? And please explain how Kyler Murray and his 10 NFL seasons, wait, no that's not right, 10 NFL games, hmm, no?? Oh yeah 10 minutes of NFL experience...lower, still?? 10 seconds, yep there we go...huh, not even that??...ZERO NFL experience?? And he's already Elite???? Over 4 QBs that, at some point, took their team to the SB...one of which, just last year...makes total sense. I heard that Goff can't even spell NFL now, much less, QB, so I can see how he's fallen so far off... So, I made mine, and color coordinated the QBs, with white jerseys on top, then Blue, black, red, mixed, and finally green...it's about as accurate as some of these others that I have seen in this thread! 😂 Seriously, though, I get it. This is not an easy list to put together, but I just cannot imagine why anyone would even bother to rank the Rookies anywhere else other than "Unknown"; how many Top 5 overall pick QBs have utterly busted in the NFL...guys that, at this point in years past, were still being hyped, just like in this thread, about being 'sure-fire' studs, only to 'flame-out' within a year or two?? And, again, how does Ben have a statistically impressive 'total-stats' + efficient season, then get placed in a similar tier as Baker Mayfield, or Matthew Stafford?? I'm sorry, but it's not lke he had a sub 60% comp %, or a one-to-one, TD-to-Int ratio, or a YPA or YPC of sub-5.0, or something... Okay...enough droning...haha!!
  14. Most Overrated QB's of all Time

    Gotta love FF... ...so, which is it...are Swann/Harris and the rest of the crew overrated? Or were they actual 'skill players' worthy of their HOF status?? You want to talk about talents 'carrying' a QB?? Look no further than Shannon Sharpe, TD, Rod Smith, McCaffery, Neil Smith, and Atwater...it's amazing what nearly 3800 Yds Rushing and 36 Rushing TDs, over a 2 year span, can do for a QB. 2 x SB MVP, 1 x NFL AP MVP, AP 1st Tm All-Pro and POY in 14 years vs 1 x SB MVP, 1 x NFL AP MVP, and a 2nd Team All-Pro in 16 years So, you want to try again?? Actually pick someone who's more deserving, like, well, Elway would be a good place to start...Namath was likely worse, and Aikman?? Seriously?? You are going to compare Emmitt Smith with Franco?? I love Franco, but. c'mon... And if you are going to try to say Aikman has 1 less SB because of Jackie Smith?? Well, let's not forget the TRUE hero of the Cowboys defeat of the Steelers in the 90s...so he'd STILL be 1 under...
  15. Top QB/WR Duo for the 2019 season

    True, but Ben had his highest yards production of his career last year, while maintaining his same level of efficiency. I think we are entering a new era of QB play, and will see more and more of the upper echilon QBs playing into their late 30s/early-40s--Brady, Brees, Ben, Eli, Rivers, Alex Smith, and Rodgers--all are 35+, even Ryan and Flacco are 34...and while Ben contemplated retirement a couple years back, it appears that was a fleeting thought. And regarding the OL issues, etc. Well, like I alluded--Bortles was supposed to improve as well with a regenerated OL/Rushing attack, and he still regressed. There will always be the arguments of "well, we are better than last year"...until a few injuries pile up to ertain players, coach/coordinator/scheme changes, so on and so forth. Sure, every fan would like to believe their favorite players will improve, and past success sustained, or even improved upon, but for everyone of those 'success stories', lies another 5 failure stories. I'm just saying, I'm going to 'play the odds' that the Watson/Hopkins duo will not be the top duo in 2019--IMO, they weren't the best in 2018. Heck, it could be Wilson/Metcalf, Rivers/Allen, Luck/Hilton, Carr/AB, or Brady/Harry. And it could even be Mayfield/OBJ, Prescott/Cooper (extrapolate Coopers DAL #s to 100 rec, 1300yds, 11 TDs), Trubisky/Robinson, or Goff/Kupp or Woods or Cooks... But TBH, I would closer associate the latter group with Watson/Hopkins chances, than the former group. That's not an insult, as I would include the KC duo, as well, with that group--there's just not enough evidence...for me, but a lot of good upstart talent there. And it doesn't matter or not, if you are a Mod on the NFL Gen; doesn't mean that you deserve any unneeded attitude; I can get worked up sometimes, if I'm passionate about a topic--certainly didn't mean anything personal; I was just pretty shocked by the assertion, right or wrong.
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