ramssuperbowl99

I haven't done the formal stats, but I'd be willing to bet a pretty large sum of money those are not statistically significant differences given that the sample size is so small. Maybe at 90% confidence, but not at 95% or 99%. Maybe if you combine the entire team's stats together you might start to get somewhere. But since they're picking and choosing, my guess is that starts to look more normal when you add in the remainder.

Did we actually know this was ongoing? We knew the Red Sox got warned, and we knew Manfred sent out a notice. There were rumors, but I wouldn't say we knew of this happening. I follow baseball pretty closely, and if you asked me a year ago to name teams that might be stealing signs, the Red Sox and Astros would be two guesses, but I'd be guessing. We didn't have hard proof. You can ask that question, but Manfred sent out a notice to the teams. It's not like he didn't do anything, he said "here are the expectations, don't **** this up". That said, l I don't think Manfred has handled this well at all. His immediate reaction to the Red Sox getting caught should have been to allow the pitcher and catcher to have a signal system besides their hands. Some transmitter thing that can show the pitch number. Then this is over and done with, no WS implications, no major scandal, and no Jessica Mendoza taking a dump live on national television. Bud Selig still rightfully gets crap for how he handled the steroid era, hopefully Manfred will get crap for how he handled this. He definitely deserves it.

I don't see this not being an isolated incident as an argument for leniency in the punishment. In fact, I think it actually is a good argument for increasing the punishment as a deterrent to other teams. At some level, teams and players all do the same math in their head: is the punishment less than, equal to, or greater than the benefit I get cheating times the odds I get caught? I'll confess I do the same thing in my life. I speed because I'm pretty sure I won't get caught going 10 over and if I do, I'll pay the couple hundred bucks in fines/insurance premiums. If the penalty for going 10 over was jail time, I'd go the speed limit. Let's be real here, just like steroids, the MLB isn't going to be able to effectively police everything. So if you don't have harsh punishments, teams are going to keep doing this. I'm halfway between you and the black and white "it's cheating" take. I don't think it's as bad as throwing games or anything like that, but I think using a computer and having guys on the bench of in the baseball ops room running signals to players is different in virtually every way than a runner on 2nd trying to point to the left to signal a breaking ball or something. The runner on 2nd is obvious, it only involves players who are on the field, the other team can adjust their signals, and then we're back to normal. It's not going to have a prolonged impact on games. The technology aided version of sign stealing is much more complex, it involves guys who aren't playing, it's not something the other team can adjust to change unless they are changing the signals on essentially every single pitch which would kill the pace of play, and there's really nothing that would prevent sign stealing on basically every single pitch. To me, "normal sign stealing" like the simple guy on 2nd operation, is kind of like the hidden ball trick where you fake throw it to the pitcher or the 1st/3rd double steal player to try and sneak a run home. Cute little league stuff that isn't going to work, and is mostly left in so that the guys involved can laugh, shake their heads, and change the signs up. Corking the bat or doctoring the baseball is cheating, and definitely a step up. I think this is a step up even from that because of how pervasive this could be. I agree with you that I don't think this had a significant effect on the outcome of the playoffs. Knowing what pitch was coming is valuable information, but it's not the whole picture. The simplest example is that I can tell you the next pitch Mariano Rivera was throwing was a cutter or Josh Hader's next pitch is probably a fastball, good luck hitting it. More generally, if I told you that someone was throwing you a fastball though, even if there were more hittable, that doesn't tell you where in the zone it's going to be or anything. If you expect down and away and it comes high and tight you might know what's coming but you're still not getting there. Where I could anticipate impact is when guys are down in the count and pitchers are trying to make them wave at a breaking ball. If you know it's a breaking ball coming, you can safely say I'm not swinging at anything unless it's up in the zone or something like that. So the Astros probably dug themselves out of a few 0-2 counts, but I don't think on a generic 1-1 pitch that knowing what the other guy is throwing provides a huge advantage. Ultimately, here's what it comes down to: Manfred has to over punish as a deterrent because baseball is so poor at actually policing cheating Manfred sent a notice that if this happens, he's holding the POBO/GM and manager accountable The Astros POBO did absolutely nothing to stop this from happening, knew about it, lied during the investigation, and refused to acknowledge it even in the public statement he made once fired. He's done nothing to suggest that he'd correct any portion of his behavior, and therefore is a huge repeat offender risk. The Astros manager destroyed a TV, but knew about it, and didn't stop this from happening The MLB is a $10B/year machine, and the foundation of it is fair play. The history here is that if you poke the bear, you're done, don't pass go, don't collect $200, you're kicked. I think you could argue Hinch shouldn't be banned for life. He wasn't orchestrating the scheme, and his real time actions mean I think it's a pretty short putt that if he was put in this situation again, he'd handle it appropriately. The guy just made a mistake. Given what I said in 3 above, I don't see the argument for ever letting Luhnow run a baseball team again unless he has a come to jesus moment and earns a second chance. Believing in second chances isn't an all or nothing thing, we should approach stuff like that on a case by base basis, so even though every time this comes up there's a group of people yelling about SJW/PC/white knight/whatever new term, I don't really buy just vilifying the people who want him gone.

You're dead to me Dave.

In 2015, the Mets medical staff nixed a trade of Carlos Gomez for Zack Wheeler and Wilmer Flores. The next day Gomez and Mike Fiers were traded to the Astros for 4 players. Had the Mets medical staff not nixed the deal, Fiers never joins the Astros and never tells the press that the Astros were stealing signs. Carlos Beltran is never investigated, and the Mets never have to fire him. The Mets basically fired their own manager 5 years before they hired him.

I don't think Jeff Luhnow is a horrible human being because he didn't do anything to stop a cheating scandal. I think he's a horrible human being for all sorts of other reasons (how he treated his scouts, his plan to cut MiLB, the dbag front office culture he created in Houston, etc.). I don't think AJ Hinch is a horrible human being. But each of them made a huge, huge mistake. The ****ed with the integrity of a $10 billion/year machine. You don't get to do that and keep your job, or get a slap on the wrist. The guy who blew up Chernobyl doesn't get to say "hey I made a mistake can I work at a different plant?" Sometimes the stakes are just too high.

RIP this thread.

Agreed. It was a mounted cop's horse. I almost wrote "the horse was a cop", but that statement is so stupid I can't take it seriously. The issue was resolved when the cop involved realized he couldn't arrest her because there are no laws in New Orleans.

True story, my girlfriend at the time got so wasted on hurricanes/hand grenades that she almost got arrested for petting a horse.

Worse, delicious fruity drinks with like 8 shots of rum in them that you can drink on the street.

I have been, and can confirm that there are no laws in New Orleans.

Where does Beltran rank all time amongst Mets managers? Top 5?

About as Mets for being involved in a cheating scandal when they didn't cheat.

Uhh how did I forget keister. That's what greeny is gonna go with, I know it.