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  1. Mark Collins was pretty good I think. Maybe he's kind of infamous but what about Terrell Buckley? 50 Picks and no pro bowl selections. Probably wasn't worth the #5 pick though.
  2. Critical Weakness to Pillar of Strength & Vice Versa

    Is this just from one year to the next? Because the Giants had Hof/all pro LBs from...probably their inception through the 90's, and the only decent one they've had this century was Antonio Pierce who played most of his career with Washington. I wouldn't be surprised if they've had the fewest pro bowl selections at LB since 2000.
  3. Does Joe Judge win Super Bowls with the NYG?

    Assume every team has even odds: ~3% chance they win ~6% chance in two years ~9% chance in three years. Since it's the Giants those odds are lower, maybe 5% chance in three years if we're being generous Probably something like 50% chance he'll be gone by three years. I'll say 6% chance he wins any bowls with the Giants
  4. Who's the MJ of Football?

    Basketball was already a global sport before Jordan, and wasn't the NBA kind of experiencing a popularity boom with Magic/Bird? Pro sports in general seem to have really taken off in popularity in the 80's/90's, maybe satellite TV broadcasts and cable becoming more widespread helped this? Jordan was probably vital in making the NBA more global. Football is still not a global sport. People outside the US maybe have heard of Tom Brady, but I doubt they'd recognize him. Whereas Michael Jordan they could recognize, and could probably recognize some other basketball players too. There's too many variables to try and match in this equation. You can match some with some players but certainly not all. From a marketing perspective maybe Bo Jackson could have been closest before he got hurt? He was a pop culture icon in the US and a legend on tecmo bowl. If any of the football video games named after players had become the dominant franchise instead of Madden then it would probably be them. Some NFL players stayed famous after football, like OJ (before the murders) and Jim Brown. Jordan was one of the better players on both offense and defense, so even if you say hey Tom Brady he played offense you're still only talking half the equation. Are we gonna go back in time to when players played both sides of the ball? Maybe it's Sammy Baugh. Brady has the six championships, but he's also lost three times in the super bowl. So if it's undefeated in championships as the requirement maybe Joe Montana is the answer. If we're talking about most exciting players to watch, you have to include people like Barry Sanders, Gale Sayers, OJ Simpson, Michael Vick, Ray Lewis, LT, Ed Reed, Deion Sanders, Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Jim Brown. If they have to have a "hey this guy is going to take over the game" quality like Jordan, I feel like Favre or Elway in their primes could kind of do that, for defense LT, Ray Lewis, Reggie could do that. The Greatest Game ever played helped surge the popularity of the NFL, maybe it's Johnny Unitas I think it's actually hard to find a comparable MJ in any sport really. You have someone like Gretzky who wasn't nearly as marketable but was way more dominant than Jordan in his sport. Bjorn Borg dominated and made tennis much more popular, after he retired the popularity of the sport died in the US and (at least I think I read) it wasn't until recently we had as many recreational tennis players in the US as we did back then. Pele in soccer was probably the only name a lot of Americans recognized until we hosted the world cup in '94, most Americans know about Babe Ruth.
  5. I hope I don't explain this poorly. I think you can look at it on different levels, and in some ways football is more complex and in some ways it's simpler. When it comes to understanding the rules and how to play, it's way more complex than the other sports. There may not be a single person who knows the rules well enough to be able to rule on every situation without the aid of the official rulebook. For instance, I'm pretty sure that it's theoretically possible to score a single point, even the situation it would occur is virtually impossible (blocked extra point/2 point try returned, fumbled, somehow a safety scored. I think.) Even people who follow the sport more than casually will probably encounter a play once every few seasons where they say "wow I didn't realize that was a rule." Then there's times that it's very simple. For a lot of positions in football, it's not a very technical sport. It's not uncommon for people who are good athletes to pick up the sport and become NFL caliber players within a few years. This definitely couldn't happen in soccer, basketball I'm assuming it's nigh impossible, and I'd imagine baseball would be damn hard too, hockey too. When it comes to strategy, I feel like understanding the basics of football strategy is kind of straightforward and simple, where as soccer it's more nuanced and I'd imagine basketball and hockey too. When it comes to developing strategies and being better than other NFL coaches, I can't really speak to that but I'd imagine that is more complex than in the other sports. You have so many more moving parts (a minimum of 24 starting positions,) injuries are much more common, seasons are shorter, and coaching decisions have much more of a direct impact on the results.
  6. Worst Teams to Make the Super Bowl

    I don't think anyone in this thread has said that Baltimore 2000 was of the worst teams to win, only that the 2000 Giants were and that super bowl was awful.
  7. Vintage photos thread.

  8. They're never going to financially recover from this
  9. How draft classes is Mahomes worth?

    Wasn't there some crazy stat that no QB drafted by the chiefs won a game for them for like 30 years? And I think QBs drafted by the niners have won more games for the chiefs than QBs drafted by Kansas City?
  10. Worst Teams to Make the Super Bowl

    I think that was a weird time for the NFL. I'm not sure if it was that there were a lot of good defenses or just a dearth of good quarterbacks in the league. Trent Dilfer was horrible, Kerry Collins really wasn't much better. Kind of a similar matchup the year before with the Bucs v. Giants in week one, Dilfer was the starting QB. Giants couldn't do anything (100 yds of offense, 4 first downs, 1/13 third downs) but Dilfer had a fumble returned for a touchdown and threw some of the worst picks I've ever seen including a 8yd INT for a touchdown so the giants won 17-13. In the Super Bowl, if that Armstead pick-6 doesn't get called back I can't help but wonder if it's deja vu all over again for Dilfer. That Ravens D was so good that we can (kind of) forget just how bad Dilfer was. He was almost so bad that it wasn't the case though. Even with the best defense of all time they couldn't win the division, and it took a little bit of luck and ADG going 1/4 to get past the titans in the divisional. As a fan of the Giants, they really were not good around this time. Part of their MO would be winning games they really shouldn't. In their first playoff game they scored 0 offensive touchdowns, scored on the opening kickoff return and with a fluke interception from Sehorn. The next game against the Vikings might have been the biggest letdown I've seen from a supposed contender, and again they were up early (14-0 in two minutes thanks to horrible secondary play and a fumble on the ensuing kickoff.) People were calling them the "worst team to host a championship game" and the owner even remarked on it and jokingly called them "the worst team to make the super bowl" after the win. Then in the super bowl, they again fail to score an offensive touchdown. So in their two wins they got off to very quick leads, and in two of three playoff games they fail to score a TD on offense.
  11. Who's the MJ of Football?

    Because he led the league in receiving touchdowns for one season? I don't get it.
  12. Who's the MJ of Football?

    How about LT? He won defensive player of the year his first two years in the league, had games where he was the key difference in victory, played injured, won two championships, and he's got the two letter nickname.
  13. Who's the MJ of Football?

    With only five players on the court at a time and the fact that you play offense and defense I think it's hard to compare. You'll probably get a bunch of different answers. I'll throw one out of my own, Barry Sanders. Didn't win any championships, only won one playoff game, but he was fun to watch. Lots of great highlight reels, I don't think I've ever seen a player make so many pro bowl/hall of famers look silly, I think he would be a lot of fun for casual fans to watch as well. Even though Detroit never really did anything in the playoffs he had a lot of big Thanksgiving games, so he was shown on a National stage quite often. I'm not a Lions fan but he was probably my favorite player growing up.. Edit: Even though he was known for his quiet demeanor on the field, apparently Barry was the biggest trash talker on a basketball court
  14. What do you guys think are some of the worst teams to have played in the super bowl? I think we have a pretty good mix of older/younger posters and also people who watch a lot of games so I'm curious to see what people think. This list will probably have some recency bias as I think it's harder to make this list from times when fewer teams made the playoffs. As a Giants fan, I think at least one of the following three of our super bowl teams would qualify for top ten worst out of a possible 108 teams: 2000, 2007, 2011. (do I have some reverse homerism or something?)
  15. I'm not sure if this is what's being asked, but if you look solely at stats besides wins/rings then maybe like top ten to top twenty. Either Peyton or Marino #1. If you're trying to say that we include every other QBs wins/rings and just assume Brady won 0 then I think you need to specify a bit more. Did he just lose in the super bowl, meaning he still played in nine? Still with over .600 pct in the playoffs? That would still be a ridiculous accomplishment. I'd probably consider him top 5-10 then. Number one would be maybe Peyton or Montana.