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  • NFL Team
    Kansas City Chiefs
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    Kansas City Royals
  • NBA Team
    LA Lakers

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    KC, MO

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  1. I was literally just thinking about this topic today. I’ll still slightly lean Watson, but I grant Allen has improved substantially this season and much more than I anticipated. This will end up being the new version of the Matt Ryan/Matt Stafford debate IMO. Allen has far more pure arm talent than Watson (although Watson doesn’t have a bad arm), but Deshaun is a far more polished QB. Allen has significantly closed the gap in that department though, and right now he’s playing at a higher level than Watson ever has, but it’s VERY early.
  2. Wilson is getting the Elway benefit right now. I remember in the 80/90s, it didn’t matter what Marino/Montana did, there would always be people arguing Elway could definitely do better if he just had what they had... Mahomes has lower football IQ, even though he takes less sacks. He’s somehow more inconsistent, even though the Chiefs have far fewer 3 and outs (a function of RW occasionally not seeing or not settling for the underneath play). I’m not even saying Russ isn’t amazing, but people are inventing weaknesses for Mahomes that don’t even exist. Mahomes has literally had the greatest 2 year start to his career that we’ve ever seen and people are assuming that Wilson can definitely match that. People are way too quick to take historical greatness for granted.
  3. Idk. I just think that throw was absolutely insane. People see Hardman running wide open and how causally Mahomes makes that throw and don’t appreciate the level of arm talent it takes. This is not a knock on Wilson, who has a fantastically strong arm and otherworldly ball placement, but I don’t think he can make that throw.
  4. Carroll and his staff aren’t on the offensive level of Reid and his staff, but they still do a very good (and often under appreciated) job of putting Russ in good positions to maximize his skill set. Russ throws that deep pass outside the hash marks better than Mahomes and he’s more elusive, but Mahomes does a better job getting the ball out his hands quicker (Wilson takes a lot of sacks that are his fault), and can make off platform throws that Russ can’t. People see Mecole Hardman wide open for his TD on MNF and talk about scheme, but that play doesn’t work if Mahomes doesn’t drift back in the pocket to buy more time and then put the ball out there on a dime with the ball traveling over 40 yards in the air, while the defense is bearing down on him. That’s more talent than scheme. I don’t think Wilson can make that play. In fact, there’s been only three guys I’ve ever seen who I think can make that play: Elway, Favre, and Rodgers. That’s not a knock on Russ, who is amazing, but I just think there are more things Mahomes can do that Russ can’t than vise versa.
  5. I knew that we were going to see a bunch of knee jerk reactions in this thread based off Mahomes first 2 games and Wilson’s first three. Mahomes played virtually all of last season on a bum ankle with injuries all throughout the OL and WR corps and still had arguably the best season in the league on a per game basis. When he was healthy and the playoffs came he was on a different level. The idea that if you swapped them places Russ would be doing what Mahomes is but Mahomes couldn’t do what Russ is laughable. Carroll is not some offensively inept clown being carried by Russ.
  6. I can’t decide how I feel about these three division winners from last year coming into this year. I think I might like the Eagles the best. I expect them all to be pretty good, I just don’t know how good. 2 questions 1. Which of these three do you think is LEAST LIKELY to repeat as division champ. 2. Which of these teams do you think is MOST LIKELY to repeat as division champ.
  7. I’m definitely not saying Wilson is only Hall of Good. I’m like you, where I think he’s on Hall of Fame pace but just needs a little more accrual work.
  8. WRs have occasionally come away with SB MVP awards, Holmes, Ward, Rice... Although in Howard’s case, he got his more for his efforts as a kick returner. Howard was a pretty feared return man that year, and his KR TD in the SB came right after NE had scored and it looked like they had all the momentum. It was a massive game changing play. Now, it’s debatable whether that should’ve been enough for him to get the award over Favre. I think I probably would’ve leaned towards him.
  9. Look, I’m certainly not downplaying how good Russ has been. I don’t think he’s quite cleared the bar for the HOF just yet, but he’s certainly on the right pace. I’d like to see him maintain his current level of play for a couple more years before I’d be completely solid on his induction. As for Warner, injuries played a much bigger factor in his run in STL ending then people tend to acknowledge. He never got a fair shake in NY, but it’s hard to blame the Giants because they had a blue chip prospect waiting in Eli, and that turned out to be the right decision for them. His run in Arizona would’ve looked even more impressive than it ended up being, but not for the fact that it took the organization bizarrely too long to realize that Leinart sucked.
  10. Because of severe injuries to his hand and a concussion, not because he couldn’t play. No, he just had a historically dominant defense and wasn’t asked to carry a heavy offensive load earlier on when he went to his SBs. He’s also had one of the best coaches in the league his whole career. Its debatable who played in a “crazier qb era”. And I never said Wilson wasn’t good. I said he hasn’t surpassed Warner. You can’t compare their numbers directly because they played in two completely different eras. Warner led the league in passer rating twice, Russ once. Warner led the league in passing TDS twice, Russ once. Warner led the league in passing yards once, Russ never. Warner led the league in ANY/A three times, Russ never. And please tell me you’re not trying to play up win/loss percentage over MVPs!!!! You might as well be hyping up Alex Smith for his amazing win/loss record in the 2010s. C’mon now. Regardless, Warner also has a SB MVP, something Russ also doesn’t have.
  11. That particular incarnation of the Rams never returned to the SB after Warner left, nor did those Cardinals. The Rams were fairly mediocre after he left but not a complete dumpster fire. The Cardinals were. And Warner went to 3. With two different franchises. And I’m sorry you don’t remember the Rams being the butt of national jokes in the 90s. Stubblefield with the infamous “same old Rams” quote. The 90s Rams and 2000s Cardinals were in much sorrier shape than the Seahawks before Russ took over. None of that stuff you brought up for Wilson compare to Warner’s accomplishments. Seriously, you’re comparing winning percentage and TD/INT ratios to MVPs??? And when you adjust their numbers relative to the eras, Warner’s are very favorable to Russ’s. Now, Wilson can certainly surpass Warner eventually... But he hasn’t done that yet.
  12. Uhhh, Warner has 2 MVPs, 2 AP 1st team selections, a SB MVP, and led 2 different franchises to SB appearances, both of which were dumpster fires before he came... There’s no way Wilson has cleared the bar Warner set.
  13. I don’t see how Tom Brady in XXXVI isn’t the worst of the SB MVPs on this list. Him winning the MVP was a case of people voting for the moment instead of the actual deserving player.
  14. Yep. I personally wouldn’t have minded too much if Williams won, but his MVP case relies heavily on that last TD. To me that TD was a luxury, but not a necessity. I’d actually be curious what the statistical probability of the Chiefs winning in the following scenarios was: Up 24-20 with the ball at the SF 25 and the Niners down to 1 timeout with less than a 1:20 to go (scenario if Williams kneels after picking up 13 yards for a 1st) Up 31-20 and the Chiefs are about to kick off to the Niners who have two timeouts with less than 1:20 (actual scenario) Also, one of the reasons I like QBR as a supplemental stat to passer rating and ANY/A is because it factors in QB rushing contributions. Mahomes had a 1 yard TD run in that game that doesn’t show up in passer rating or ANY/A. His QBR in that game was a solid 61.6. Just for reference, that was just a little bit better than Wentz’s QBR (60.8) on the season. Mahomes didn’t have a great game, but he had a good game. He wasn’t a bad pick for MVP.
  15. Lol. No, Williams didn’t have a spectacular game. He had a decent game. As for Brady, he literally won that MVP because he was a great story (at that time). The NE secondary won that game, pick any player out of the secondary and give it to him (Law probably, because of the return TD). As for Manning, he had one good drive the spent the rest of the time being a game manager. Rhodes could have easily won it. And no, you most certainly couldn’t excuse a freaking Kicker winning MVP. Mahomes isn’t number 1, 2, or 3, or whatever as far as worst award robberies in NFL history. He and Williams both had strong cases for MVP. Tie usually goes to QB.
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