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Everything posted by Broncofan

  1. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    Seems that Elway & Fangio are on the same page now that they want a progressive concept OC. So Munchak would be OL coach only. Which still would be a fantastic salvage of the royal clusterf*** Kubiak OC hire / non-hire. The bigger development imo is that Fangio is in charge of the OC search. That 2-coach-in-charge idea was an awful one as you & others rightfully pointed out over and over. This obviously could still fail especially with the hire cycle being later. But this was always the better organizational structure to have a clear coaching chain of decision making and responsibility. Having the buck stop with Fangio coaching wise is more likely to succeed than co-coaches. As the saying goes if you have say you will have two #1 guys leading - you often don’t have any #1 guy. Just sucks we lost the time other teams took to screen and hire OC’s and other staff. Let’s see what Elway & Fangio can come up with.
  2. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    PIT’s contract expires so he’s a FA, no? Then it’s a matter of choosing what he knows (PIT) vs. where his daughter, son-in-law and grandkids live (DEN), plus his short term future there. Obviously an AC position wouldn’t hurt but it also seems to be a decision on if either place could be a potential promotion candidate. On that front we probably are less attractive. PIT seems to be a team that could move on from Tomlin soon if more drama and struggles follow 2017. Then again he might not last if Tomlin goes, too. Either way we seem to be committed to Fazio for 2-3 years minimum. So guess it might come down to which situation he thinks is more stable / ready to advance soon (his window is closing pretty soon). Guess we will find out soon enough.
  3. 2019 NFL QB Draft Prospects

    The one partial defense that Elway gets for taking Lynch Rd1 is that KC & DAL both tried to get Lynch. But there’s a key difference - both had established starting QB at the time with 1-2 years left minimum. So they could develop him. For Elway to think Lynch could step in year 2 week 1 was obviously way off base. But it shows how badly teams reach for QB. But it’s a good comp for the 2019 draft QB-wise and the risks it presents as well. If that was Elway’s only QB evaluation mistake it would be dismissed. Just in context of Brock / Lynch / Case hard to feel good that he’s learned. If it wasn’t Elway any other GM probably wouldn’t get another chance with the recent history of whiffs. But Elway deserves this shot. It’s just this is his last freebie. There’s no one else in the cross hairs if the next choice misses. This is no doubt part of what is pushing the 1.10 QB talk. It’s just scary that it’s clearly pushing the narrative Renck & Klis refer to (must get QBOTF), it seems to be framing a 1.10 pick no matter what. Guess we’ll see.
  4. Broncos name Vic Fangio their next Head Coach

    Kubiak likely will find work as an OC / consultant.
  5. Random Thoughts

    I already took IND +5.5. On neutral field I’d take IND money line but seems simpler to take the points. TO’s & HFA harder to predict. The under was a tougher call before the weather but the teams that give KC trouble can control the clock with run game / possession pass game and can mount pressure to contain Mahomes (pretty much all you can do). IND can definitely do the O part to keep Mahomes off the field. How they contain him, plus TO’s, is the great unknown. Should be a great game. This slate of 4 games looks awesome.
  6. Divisional round

    Snow storm and possibly rain/snow in KC. That’s a big help for trench warfare. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an upset. Or the under (57 pts wow). Or both. If the field is covered in snow and it’s snowing in game a hidden edge comes up for IND. The Colts are in all white uni’s so harder to see the defenders. The O knows where the receivers will be so it matters more to pick up the D. If the field stays clear then no edge but the weather really could change this game script.
  7. Random Thoughts

    Snow storm and possibly rain/snow in KC. That’s a big help for trench warfare. I wouldn’t be surprised to see an upset. Or the under (57 pts wow). Or both.
  8. Broncos name Vic Fangio their next Head Coach

    @49erurtaza - sorry for the ask (again), but can the title be changed? Kubiak is for sure out as OC...to say it was a weird turn of events is an understatement. Now, Dennison replacing our current OL coaches (Sean Kugler & Chris Strausser, who while on the surface, look like it was a mediocre result, basically worked with scrubs and got them to be better than the more expensive and veteran unit of 2017 by a fair margin) would have been an unmitigated disaster. So maybe that was the final straw. Or Fangio met with Kubiak, and while he said he was OK with Kubiak as OC, went to Elway and said this wasn't going to work - leaving Elway with no choice but to part ways with Kubiak. Let's be clear - if Kubiak thought Rick Dennison was a good choice as OL coach, keeping in mind that Kubiak was the one who advocated strongest last year as consultant to Elway to go and get Case Keenum, it really reinforces the doubts that Kubiak's failed to adapt to today's NFL. And so the decision in in itself is justifiable. But then the hiring should have also never been planned for weeks, and confirmed this past week, without more due diligence. And that's totally on Elway. We likely won't ever know if Elway didn't fully realize Kubiak's plan - or if Fangio wasn't on board with the hires and plan once he heard more post-hire. But, EITHER way, this is a huge clusterf*** with Elway - either he and Kubiak weren't on the same page on the hires that were coming next, or Fangio and Elway/Kubiak weren't. But in either situation, that's on Elway to figure out ahead of time - not now, when the hiring cycle is complete, announcements are made, and staff let go (and teams having hired 2/3 - 3/4 of new candidates). We're already an O without a QBOTF, a mediocre OL, we've lost our WR1, and 3 OC's have been here the last 3 years. To say this is an unattractive destination for an OC is an understatement - so while Elway could salvage the situation by targeting a Todd Monken, the real Q is why would an in-demand OC actually consider coming here? Man, Elway earned himself a ton of leash with his 2011-15 tenure in roster-building and cap management, and a SB ring will earn even more. But it's fair to say he's directly on the hot seat with this HC hire and choosing our next QBOTF - these are likely his last choices where his name isn't the one whispered as next to go. If this round of HC/OC & QB (the latter probably being the most important) choices fail, it's Elway who's likely finally targeted (and rightfully so). The only silver lining - because Mike Munchak has family in DEN, he may want to come as OL coach. That would really turn the OL coaching transition from a disaster to a great upgrade. But he's a very meh OC, so it's only OL coach, not OC. So much for Elway's idea of a "mentor" OC in Kubiak bringing in a young mind to learn the job - it's trial by fire, or very recycled (and likely unattractive recent results) OC. The only other silver lining - at least it's clear how the coaching decision tree is going - Fangio's in charge of the OC hire. Should have been how it went in the first place, though. Either way, no matter the result of who we get (I really hope Munchak becomes our OL coach), how this went down really reflects poorly on Elway as a GM process-wise. And no matter the choices made, other than his draft pre-2018 Day 2 history (when he always went for tools-only, insane-ceiling but low-skill guys), you couldn't say that about Elway before - but it's hard to deny here. Elway was an all-time great as a QB at the last minute comeback W. He'll need all those skills and more to pull this OC hire as GM. We'll see.
  9. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    Well if that’s the gist both ways for sure, no argument from me either way.
  10. Grade the Fangio Hire

    Only Q I have is would a college guy want to leave their comfort zone for this situation as "just" the OC. I mean, go further down the list, sure, but I don't know we'll find a known commodity in college that thinks leaving for only an OC position makes sense. Let's face it, if the O fails, the OC is going to get the blame first.
  11. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    It's not without hope, but consider this: 1. We have Von, and IND doesn't have anyone like that. But on O, their OL is top 5 (if not higher), they have a true elite WR1 in TY Hilton, a TE RZ weapon in Eric Ebron, and of course, Luck, who while a different QB (short-intermediate assassin now), is very much elite. We've got nothing there to match in any of those 4 categories with Sanders' injury being the worst possible, very real risk of being a career-killer performance-wise (except for a patellar tear, nothing's worse than an Achilles tear in your 30's). We hope Sutton will eventually be that guy, but everything he showed said that's unrealistic to expect week 1 2019. And we just lost our best OL coaches, and while Munchak would really help steady that, we don't know that yet. That's a crazy case to forecast a sudden return to even decent O production soon. 2. The players even recognize we're in the midst of a rebuild. When the players say it, it's hard not to take notice. They're usually the last to say this. It's not hopeless, but when you look at 1 & 2, man, it's hard to believe we're the next team to go from bottom 10 to contention soon.
  12. Grade the Fangio Hire

    For now SF is blocking it - which means they are either A) promoting him to co-OC (only way they can do that IIRC in past, but the rules have changed in last year so who knows ) or B) trying to see if Elway will give them a pick swap. Basically he had 1 year with ATL as an O / scout team assistant coach then time at Wagner college. Joined Shanny in 2017 as QBC. That’s it. But Fangio and he know each other from some past connection and Fangio is the one in charge of the search. So at least it’s a clear chain of operations.
  13. Grade the Fangio Hire

    Yeah, entirely possible. But either way, Elway can't announce the hire that Fangio is in charge of the D and Kubiak in charge of the O - then find out later that same week there's a big problem. Even if he thought Kubiak would be in charge of the O and Fangio would be in charge of the D (and to be fair to @BroncosFan2010 and @broncos67, @champ11 & @thebestever6, they all alluded to this) - that was always a tricky relationship that was going to be need ABSOLUTE clarity on the chain of command, and the decision tree. And this was exactly the type of situation that was the pitfall to such an arrangement. The fact that it took less than 5 days to bear fruit really damns Elway here. I mean, the GM & HC have to agree on the personnel staffing - that's literally the next decision up for Elway & Fangio/Kubiak. How they weren't on the same page before going forward is stunning. Either way, Elway messed up in not doing his due diligence. Because once the OL coach decision came out, it was pretty clear no one was on the same page. And that's not OK to happen under a GM's watch. Elway might salvage this, but it's a terrible organizational look for us, and for him as a GM.
  14. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    With all the news today, just in case ppl aren't up to speed, it looks like Mike Munchak could be hired - as our OL coach, not our OC, according to Renck. While this has been a huge clusterf*** day to say the least, getting Munchak to be our OL coach is one silver lining. He's a helluva OL coach. To have lost Kugler/Strausser and then going back to Dennison would arguably have been the biggest disaster result for today, even though losing an OC is pretty apocalyptic. Munchak though has not been a good OC, so while it would at least address OL, an OC hire with him there would be a mixed bag (help the OL, but likely the O overall pretty stagnant development). Our first step is hopefully to get Munchak as OL coach - it's only a possibility at this stage. If we miss out on him, man.
  15. Grade the Fangio Hire

    BTW @AnAngryAmerican - I think you need to change the title now....good lord.
  16. Grade the Fangio Hire

    I think he and Kubiak really got messed up assuming the other saw things their way. In a lot of ways, their familiarity probably hurt them here - they might have really assumed both of them were on the same page about every personnel decision and directional decision on the O - when they clearly weren't. To say it was philosophical differences is probably window dressing - when Kubiak said he wanted to let the assistant coaches go, and Dennison to come in, as the beat reporters noted today, well, it must have been a huge "WTF" moment for Elway.....but yeah, he should have done his homework here and made sure they were on the same page. No matter who was the one with the crazy plan the other didn't agree with, it's on the GM to make sure the 2 are on the same page before a hiring call gets made. That's all on Elway. The really worrisome part is that our situation already looks like a less-than-ideal place for an OC to come to. If we get Munchak to come in, he's not been a good OC at all. He is a great OL coach. So he could salvage that part, at the very least. But man, it's going to take a helluva sell job by Elway to get an OC who's in demand to come to us. I'd love it if Todd Monken could join - but man, why would he? Our O has been a place where OC careers come to die the last 3 years, and I can't imagine this gives potential OC candidates more hope that we're headed the right way. Elway could salvage this, just he's really put himself behind the 8 ball now. He was the king of comebacks as a QB - he's going to need those skills now for the OC hire.
  17. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    We don't have to agree. But it's a fact Elway took all the future $ saved with Von's restructure to spend only on 2018-only guys. He didn't spend it anywhere else, or on future signings/extensions. And he spent it ALL right away. Not half, but all. I think we can see the facts on the $ spent, where it was directed. Now we know the words Elway actually spoke over & over again - which of course could be cover - except his actions mirrored them. Honestly, there's no other logical conclusion. Re: McDonald, he never got healthy, and we released him.
  18. Grade the Fangio Hire

    On the one hand, Elway decided it was better to cut bait on a situation that wasn't going to work (Kubiak wanting Dennison back and letting the assistant OL coaches go instead). That takes a lot to do realizing the organizational chaos and the PR heat he was going to take here. But, yeah, for Elway to not have discussed what the plan was post-HC hiring with Kubiak, and not be on the same page - man, that's really a bad look. And the timing is nuts - we're at the end of the hiring cycle, and OC candidates that look at what just went down have to be wondering what is going on.
  19. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    Von restructures March 15, 2018 - saves 12.4M, this year, but pushes it to 2019-21. Denver signs Clinton McDonald - 1-year, 3M deal March 21, 2018. Denver signs Tremaine Brock - 1-year, 4M deal March 15, 2018 Denver trades for for Jareed Veldheer - 1--year, 7M left on his deal (UFA after 2018) - March 23, 2018 Cold, hard fact. Elway was going win-now in 2018. You don't restructure the 16M to save 12M but push it back to 2019-21 and then spend that savings all on 1-year guys, unless you think this is a win-now team. Zero other reason. Zero.
  20. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    Elway restructured Von's 2018 salary to clear 16M of space specifically to get 3 guys on 1-year deals. There is absolutely zero reason to do that if you don't think you have a shot to win now; you don't sacrifice future cap health just for appearance's sake. Zero reason. Zero.
  21. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    I will credit Elway though for cutting bait on Kubiak - letting Strauss & Kugler go for Rick Dennison and a redux of pre-2017 for our OL coaching was sheer insanity. Now, if we can get Munchak to be our OL coach, wow, talk about turning lemons into lemonade. Frankly, that would be like turning lemons into Dom Perignon lol. Munchak's an oustanding OL coach, the cream of the crop. And because his contract's expired, PIT doesn't have to give permission. So wow at that turn of events, we could in fact turn out to be saved from utter disaster in the trench coaching dep't if we get Munchak. The problem, of course, is that the 2+ weeks we spent committing initially to Kubiak as OC, it leaves the team scrambling for an OC - when 6 teams have made their hires, or zeroed in. The fact Elway didn't realize this was the plan with a Kubiak hire until now (along with the so-called philosophical differences that just came up), that's absolutely on him, he owns the mess involved with the timing of these moves. Getting Munchak as OC won't really help as much - but I'd take the OL help he can provide, regardless. Maybe we can salvage it with a Monken hire. I'll still take a decision to cut bait with Kubiak now over re-hiring Dennison & co., though. That would have been an unmitigated disaster. And it kind of underlines the concerns of bringing Kubiak back and being able to adapt to the new NFL O if his first idea was bringing in Dennison to be his OL coach. Seems like we dodged a bullet - now it might have been a bullet many of us saw coming, and probably could have easily been dodged 1 month ago...but I'll take now over doing it later, after the bullet's damage is already done, and we're in a lot worse damage control then, than if we are doing it now.
  22. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    To be fair, though, we'd be about 15M+ in the black with any of those other choices, or more. A very expensive stop-gap - because Elway actually thought we were a win-now team. Why Elway restructured 16M of Von's salary in 2018 and pushed it back to 2019-21 to go for expensive 1-year options that didn't perform even close to well. We can say it wasn't to be more than a 2-year stopgap, but it was still an awful choice - as was the illusion we were win-now. I don't think anyone can argue the above.
  23. 2019 NFL Draft Early Declaration Thread

    I don't know that he'd have been a 1st round pick, given he was seen as a run-only guy. But Rd2-3 pretty easy to project. Now he's likely a late Day 3 pick. Wow.
  24. DEN hires CHI DC Vic Fangio as HC

    So we're letting Kugler & Strausser go. For Dennison. Man.
  25. Bengals to hire Rams QB coach Zac Taylor as head coach

    Well we know what hiring the Pats assistants leads to. We have no idea what following the so called McVay tree leads to yet.