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Karnage84

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  1. The Lions Den: The Anything Thread

    Nobody else wants to talk about Agnew being converted over to WR? Just me? Ok.....
  2. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    I appreciate you coming in and sharing an outside perspective. It's always fun to see how things are perceived outside of our bubble. People keep talking about the Swift pick and that we have Kerryon on the roster. He's a great RB when healthy but that has been the consistent issue for us each and every year. When he goes down, there has been a lot of nothing except question marks behind him. Scarborough played well for us but he hasn't even played a full season with us and has his own injury concerns. Swift gives them a different back who can be played as part of a RBBC. It would have been nice to trade down but it appears there weren't any takers. What were your thoughts on the Packers picks of Love and Dillon?
  3. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    This is only to help ease their transition from the Caldwell era into the Patricia era. They've brought in players that know their scheme and coaching style that will buy in and help players around them buy in. They are known commodities that have worked and will likely work out in this scenario who also happen to fill pressing needs. The Lions didn't need or want the Slay saga to be a distraction in the off season and during the season. If he held out, that's all we would be talking about. If he was around and playing out his contract but being vocal on twitter, that's all we would be talking about. It's an important season for this FO. Slay was clearly not a part of their plans and they chose to move on sooner rather than later to avoid those distractions and to build the roster with an eye towards the future. As for the defensive captain Diggs, he was playing poorly and missed games. Throw in the conflict with the coaching staff and it's no wonder that they shipped him out for nothing.
  4. That's all fair. Still - it is what it is. It is a rebuild. Maybe it wasn't meant to be but it is.
  5. Depth Chart - 2017 (May 1) according to OurLads; May 1, 2018 ; May 1, 2020 Offense WR: Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, Kenny G, TJ Jones OL: Greg Robinson, Graham Glasgow, Travis Swanson, TJ Lang, Rick Wagner TE: Eric Ebron, Darren Fells RB: Ameer Abdullah, Theo Riddick QB: Stafford 10/14 were brought back in 2018 (71% retained or 29% turnover); 3 are still on the roster in 2020 (21% retained or 79% turnover). Defense DE: Corneilius Washington, Anthony Zettel DT: A'Shawn Robinson, Haloti Ngata OLB: Tahir Whitehead, Antwione Williams, JRM MLB: Jarrad Davis, Paul Worrilow CB: Slay, DJ Hayden CB: Nevin Lawson SS: Tavon Wilson, FS: Glover Quin 8/14 (57% retained or 43% turnover) were brought back in 2018. We now have 2/14 (14% retained or 86% turnover) still on the roster. Outside of JD this is an entirely different set of players going into 2020 instead of the roster in 2017.
  6. Which is what can and likely will happen during a rebuild. Just because they haven't used those words doesn't mean that isn't what has been happening here. It's not a total tear down but it is a substantial change in the roster.
  7. In fairness, these are guys that knew him before and have come into the team. However, it does speak to the transition from Caldwell to Patricia. It will only work if the start stringing some W's together.
  8. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/29200879
  9. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    They weren't going to be getting Slay to play at his current cost. They were either going to have to pay him or trade him. So you either a) Get Slay on a multi-year contract with a cap hit of $15M this year or b) trade him for what you could get, which is likely somewhat close to what they got for him. He wasn't talking about playing out his contract, he already had sat out some time with two years left on his deal. You weren't going to get Slay on the field without a new deal. Ramsey: Arguably is the best CB in the league at age 25 still on his rookie deal (5th year option) as opposed to a near 30 year old Slay wanting similar money. You're going to pay for talent and time. The cost diminishes when either talent, time or both goes down. No, Slay wasn't going AB but the Patriots run a tight ship and don't tolerate that kind of thing. Slay still tweeted a lot of negative things related to the Diggs situation which is a no no. Slay has even acknowledged he had a good/better relationship with Patricia in year 2. This really appears to be a situation with an aging player that is being moved a bit too early rather than too late (which is the Patriots MO). He thought he was a cornerstone of the franchise and expected to get paid for past production and instead was not a part of the teams future plans. Philly: Slay could have a good year this year. It wasn't just about this year but paying a guy big money in their early 30's on a bad contract. Maybe it's all a moot point if Quinn/Patricia don't come back but you can't play not to lose and you can't plan as if you aren't going to be there long term.
  10. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    Any QB, especially the GOAT, is always going to be treated differently than the rest of the team. Even so, Stafford isn't going to be treated like he owns the team. Especially not if they don't see him as a piece of the future and are looking to eventually move on. They'll get his requests and then determine how much of that they want to satisfy based on their plans for the direction of the team. That consideration will carry more weight if you are considered to be an integral part of the immediate and long term plans. Even if they aren't a part of long term plans, you don't have to give it away. If you can afford to hold onto that piece and try to get more value (production and/or trade compensation), it makes sense to do that until you're forced into a decision and/or no longer need the asset at that cost.
  11. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    It sounds like they did hear out trade offers and nothing came in that matched what they would have wanted for him. That it was better for them to keep him for the rest of the season and deal with it in the off-season instead of taking pennies on the dollar at the deadline. Had we taken a 2nd for him in a trade, he goes out and has a true Pro Bowl season then the FO would be criticized for having not gotten enough for him. This is still a better return than we received but all of this is being done with hindsight. The Diggs trade was done before Stafford's injury, so even at 2-4-1 the season was not considered to be over.
  12. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    Which is only important if the company views you as a part of their long term plans for success. If they've been interviewing candidates to take your job and/or restructure the responsibilities into different roles then they aren't going to be overly concerned about your morale. What we don't know, and likely never will, is how well Slay fits into the NE/Patricia organizational style.
  13. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    Especially if you're asking for them to substantially increase your pay despite the fact that, while you are still capable, you are going to be less efficient sooner rather than later. As a result, you aren't going to be a factor in their long term plans. Star players are going to get unequal treatment.... Stafford certainly is asked of his opinion at times. However, the team can listen to him or choose to do something differently. His job is to work with what he is provided with. You know that certain moves are going to have negative consequences short term but you can't let that dictate the future of the whole organization. The Packers had to know that taking Love was going to ruffle Rodgers' feathers. It could turn out to be the best move for the organization long term despite that. I hope not but just another recent example.
  14. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    So what would you suggest they have done with Diggs, given that Slay would never have signed off on that trade? Slay had already held out at the start of training camp with the desire for a new contract. If you're the FO you know that is going to rear its head again in the off-season. So they would have had to look into the future and determine whether Slay fits into their plans or not. If the answer is not, then you're not going to have him influence long term decisions. Diggs: Traded in October with team record at 2-4-1. He had a 58.7 PFF grade when the trade was made. He missed two games with us and then missed another three with Seattle. Maybe Diggs was a guy that was being vocal in a way that was counterproductive for what they were trying to accomplish. I do agree and feel that it was an error on Patricia's part to not understand the issues with Slay and his circle of players from the 2018 meeting. To have your best player be upset with you to that extent and not know about it until he tells you a year later is not a positive. You do need leaders in the locker room communicating with you and your staff, acting as the go between for the players and the coaches.
  15. ESPN - Lions had 4th worst offseason

    Slay did a lot for the community and doesn't seem like a bad guy at all. He just seems to have a bit of an ego. In fairness, a lot of professional athletes, especially WR's and DB's tend to. The Diggs trade definitely made an impact and they were probably skirting around his contract extension to the point where he knew it wasn't going to happen. Not having the Diggs trade cleared with him probably showed him that he was being moved outside of a leadership position and then it is firmed up when they aren't meeting his demands for a new contract. The writing was clearly on the wall.
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