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  1. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    That's a stretch IMO. Moore wasn't even the most athletic WR in his own draft. Dylan Cantrell was taller, 20 lbs bigger, faster, more explosive and quicker (or as quick) in the movement drills. He bested or equaled Moore in every single event but the bench press. If he's given the same benifit of the doubt about his combine 40 with his pro day 40 used insted he'd be an entirely differant caliber of athlete given the massive differance in size, pro day 40 times and broad jump.
  2. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    How so? Moore was one of the 6 slowest WRs at his combine. Only 2 guys who were slower were drafted. Once in the mid 7th and the other being one of the last 4 picks in the draft. It's pretty routine for players to time substantially faster at their pro days. For instance, Devin Funchess. He ran a 4.70 at the combine. At his UM pro day he was timed in the 4.5's. Looking at Funchess today, he plays a lot more like a 4.70 WR than a 4.5 guy. Hard telling how fast Moore is given that he wasn't talented enough to get on the field last year. Jake Kumerow passed him on the depth chart like he was still in high school. Before we make Jake Kumerow into a stud, he was a camp body who needed 4 years of practice squad football before he made a roster and made his first catch.
  3. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    I'm unsure what you are talking about. I avoided nothing in your post. I addressed the comment that Moore is twice the athlete and the attempt to compare their college production while failing to acknowledge the substantial difference in college offenses. You didn't mention development in the post I quoted. I didn't say Clowney was overall more athletric. I assumed his vertical was correct and there is simply no comparing their speed. IMO Moore needed the firendly confines of his pro day to even look draftable after a terrible efffort on his 40. I personally have issues buying his excuse for his combine 40. Showed some immaturity IMO needing to make an excuse instead of holding himself accountable for a bad run or a bad effort. He lined up in exactly the same spot as MVS and he declined to run it a second time. Had there been an error in the run it seems like he'd have wanted it corrected immediately given the importance of the combine.
  4. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    That's what was listed on his wiki page. I assumed the vertical was correct like the other 2 measureables. The original point wasn't to compare players. It IMO was pointing out that athletic players that aren't working out aren't guaranteed roster spots.
  5. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    Half the athlete? Clowney was more athletic in 2 of the 3 events he was measured in. In 2007 he'd have had the 3rd fasted 40, the highest vertical jump and the 5th fastest 20 yard SS. Who cares about college production a year into their career? Of course Moore was more productive. He played in an air raid system with drew Lock. Clowney played in an option offense that ran the ball 875 more times than they threw it while at VT. If Jeff Janis has taught us anything it's that we should stop being infatuated with gym short work outs once they are a season into their NFL career. Janis was bigger, more athletic and more versitile yet he never made it in the league. Athletism by it self means nothing. If Moore is still getting handily beaten by practice squad caliber WRs after his second TC/ preseason then he's not worth having on the roster. We're too deep with young WRs to carry a non contributer at the bottom of the roster in hopes that the switch turns on in year 3 or year 4.
  6. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    How exactly do you know? It's an opinion that is pretty obviously not based on one single snap of NFL football. This ability you speak of contributed 2 catches for 15 yards on a WR core that struggled and badly needed bodies. Moore was passed on the depth chart by every single WR we rostered last season. What did you see from Moore last year that would suggest that his ceiling is higher than either MVS or ESB? How if he fails, will it not be because of a lack of ability? You really believe that every single athletic WR who enters the NFL has the ability to play in the league?
  7. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    Why is it a bad take? I prefaced the comment by saying "If he gets beat out by Jake Kumerow"? Do we generally carry late round picks who aren't able to make the active roster for the length of their rookie deals? At least with Jeff Janis and Trevor Davis we got guys who contributed on ST. Moore is a DeAngelo Yancy caliber of talent. Obviously, if he's getting handily beaten out in competition by career practice squad guys then he probably doesn't have even a fraction of the ability that you view him to have. Where does he fit in our current WR group if we've got 5 young guys in front of him that are more talented? Are we cutting Davis who's every bit the WR and an entirely different tier of ST player?
  8. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    I don't see Moore making the roster this coming season if he doesn't beat out Kumerow.
  9. KIzer looked like Rodgers last year? Kizer played in 9 series last year and we turned the ball over in 4 of them (2 INTs, 1 fumble and a turn over in downs). His pick 6 against Chicago scored more points for the opposing defense than he was able to put on the board for our offense. I know the hatred for Aaron Rodgers runs deeps for a few but I don't see how any educated football fan could say that Kizer looked like Rodgers last year. If he's not making the team as a QB then the weight needs to be cut. While athletic for a QB, he doesn't have the size or athletism to play TE. Not sure there is such thing as a small TE in the league that's a bottom tier athlete for the position.
  10. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    He got 5 or more targets in all 9 games he played in. He was hurt all of last year and he played 45% of the offensive snaps. He seen over 70% the year prior.
  11. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    I'll take that bet for any amount of money given what we seen from this passing attack last year. Rodgers wasn't throwing the ball away 15 times a game (exaggerated) because his line was terrible or because he liked too. He had 1 receiver that played with any sort of consistency. I have a hard time believing that MVS and EQ are going to go from mediocre college players to difference makers in the NFL in a matter of a year. That's assuming multiple WRs from the same class develop at a faster rate than any WR we've drafted since probably Greg Jennings. This opinion mirrors what was stated almost exactly last year when we added Graham and the rookie WRs. What we got was a disaster of a passing attack that rarely strung 2 quality quarters together. Seems like there is always an exaggerated amount of optimism about Packer WRs every single time we draft one. Whether it was Jeff Janis, Trevor Davis, Malachi Dupre, ect.... I need to see a high end passing attack with this personnel before I'm ready to assume we're going to have one of our best offenses ever. Not to mention we've got one of the greenest coaching staffs in the NFL with a play caller with no quality play calling experience. I hope you are right though. If that's the case (best receiving core in Rodger's career) we should easily cruise to another Super Bowl win with the pieces added on defense and the best offense in the NFL.
  12. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    They added a rookie TE with one season of D1 production and lost their only slot WR in UFA. Cobb was hardly great but it's highly unlikely that Sterberger is a 4 catch, 40+ yard per game receiver next year.
  13. 2020 NFL Draft Discussion

    I looked at the stats. Through the first 5 years of their careers Jennings had 2 more TDs and over 1000 more yards receiving in just 2 more games played. That's a substantial difference IMO. Even if you limit it to three years so you aren't including Jennings best season in regards to TDs, the gap in yards is huge while still getting fewer targets. In Jennings 5th year he battled James Jones, Donald Driver and Jordy Nelson for targets and his production was really close to that of Adams despite getting 45 fewer targets. Adams was was forced the ball ever week because of the terrible talent we had on the WR core. While Adams' season was great, I don't put much into the "he lined up against 13 pro bowl CBs". Just because they were at one time a pro bowler doesn't mean they are currently a pro bowl caliber player. In 2010, Green Bay played against 16 different CBs who'd made a pro bowl at one time in their career (played against 5 of them multiple times). That doesn't change an opinion of a season for me.
  14. Who's your 2019 Breakout Player

    Aaron Jones. We're going to need a dominate running game if we're gonna make it back into the playoffs. IMO this is pretty easily the least talented group of pass catchers Rodgers has ever had to work with.
  15. 2020 NFL Draft Discussion

    We'll agree to disagree. Sorry, I'm not a DVOA guy. DVOA lost me when it anointed Tyler Lockett's 2019 season as the best season ever by a WR and by a huge margin. Any metric that views Locket's 2019 season almost twice as good as the next best WR in the league isn't something I'll ever be able to take seriously.