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  1. That's 2012's version of Nick Perry, not the broken down Nick Perry we're unfortunetly rostering in 2019.
  2. Like I said. We'll agree to disagree. While Alexander played well, he was a far cry from being a shut down CB with his inconsistancies. While no where near as good as rookies like Ramsey, Lattimore, Ward or White and he was on par for what we've seen from a lot of the first round CBs we've seen over the last couple years (Peters, Hargraves, Humprey, Jackson, Apple, ect). I fail to find his rookie season all that remarkable. Good for a rookie, yes. Amazing, a far cry from. I don't see it being anymore or less impressive than Davenport's given the substantial amount of time he missed in TC and in the middle of the season. Davenport was on par with Charlton and Barnett because of a deabilitating foot injury that costed him a month of the season not because his play was. He also got to training camp a month late because of the hand surgery. Kind of disingenuous to compare him to perfectly healthy guys like McKinley, Charlton, Barnett and Harris because they fit the narrative. Davenport was seing the field on around 50% of the defensive snaps before he got hurt. He had 4 sacks and 7 QB hits while bringing consistant pressure on the QB (he had 28 on the year). He was also strong in run support missing just 1 tackle on the season.
  3. Obviously it's in hindsight. Outside of Chubb, Hubbard was the most effective of the rookie edge rushers when it came to rushing the passer. He had 6 sacks while playing a very limited snap count (just 45% of his team's defensive snaps). Chances are slim that we're going to see that sort of production or efficency out of any edge player we draft this year. We haven't gotten 6 sacks in a season out of a rookie defender since CM3. Looking at our current team and what's going to likely be available at 12 or 30. I could find myself leaning towards Davenport and Hubbard over Alexander and whom ever we draft at 30. We've pretty easily got the league's 2 or 3 worst groups of edge rushers and I'm not loving the prospects in this year's draft after the first 4 or 5. The idea of drafting Burns, who's closer to being the size of a big Safety than a true 3 down edge defender, is making me cringe. Likely a lose lose either way because we'd be having to replace Alexander who's pretty clearly the best CB we've got.
  4. We'll agree to disagree. I don't think Alexander, who got substantially more playing time, was any more impressive than Davenport. I'm sure the Saints would have loved to have him healthy and more productive but I'm sure Saint fans are extreamly excited about his future. He looked dominate for long stretches last year before his toe injury. He didn't have the same burst after his return. Like you said though, we're at the beginning of both of their books. Remains to be seen if Alexander and the #30 this year is going to be better than Davenport and the 3rd round pick that we used to trade up. Obviously in hindsight with a lot of unknowns (like who's being drafted at 30) but I don't think it's a slam dunk conversation that we'd rather have Alexander and #30 over Davenport and Sam Hubbard who was taken one pick after the 3rd round pick we traded to move up.
  5. 2019 Draft Discussion

    The only player I'd possibly agree with is maybe Fletcher Cox and even then, Kuechley develped into a game changer much much quicker. LK was an all pro and defensive MVP before Fletcher Cox was anything more than a rotaional defensive lineman. I don't see any situation where Dontari Poe should be in this conversation. He's a good space eater but he provides nothing as a penetrator or a pass rusher. He's on his 3rd team in 3 years. Gilmore has been really good in New England but I don't see a good CB being more valuable than an elite MLB. There are a lot more Stephon Gimore's in the league than Luke Kuechley's IMO. Lewis had made 7 all pro teams and won 2 defensive MVPs before Ngata got to Baltimore. Were Tony Siragusa or Sam Adams the reason Lewis is a HOF player? Baltimore/ Lewis' revival in 2006 had a lot more to do with his health and a switch in defensive philosophy (Rex Ryan's arrival) more so the addition of Ngata. Lewis was a game changing LB regardless of who played in front of him. The Ravens success without Lewis speaks volumns about his importance to their overall success. 2001- 10-6/ 4th in PTs allowed and 2nd in yards allowed 2002 (Lewis injured)- 7-9/ 19th in PTs allowed and 22nd in yards allowed 2003- 10-6/ 6th in PTs allowed and 3rd in yards allowed 2004- 9-7/ 6th in PTs allowed and 6th in yards allowed 2005 (Lewis Injured)- 6-10/ 10th in PTs allowed and 5th in yards allowed 2006- 13-3/ 1st in points allowed/ 1st in yards allowed Your bust to hit ratio is terribly jacked up. All one has to do is look at past Green Bay's misses in the last 15 years. Ahmad Carroll (terrible day one, never contributed in any manner), Justin Harrell (terrible day 1, never contributed in any manner), BJ Raji (terrible after his first 3 seasons, ate himself out of the NFL before he was 30) Derek Sherrod (terrible day 1, never contributed in any manner, MAYBE injury related) and Datone Jones (never contributed, out of the league by time he was 26). AJ Hawk over his entire career was better and more important than every single one of them. Yes Raji had one or two good years but by time his first contract ended he was basically worthless and ate himself out of the NFL shortly after. Hawk was never a star after the defensive scheme switch but he was substantially more productive over his career than any of the CBs, RTs, IDL and edge rushers I just mentioned.
  6. I agree, though it wasn't exactly Alexander and the #30 for Davenport. We used a 3rd round pick to trade up into that #18 spot. To give you an idea of it's value, Sam Hubbard who had 6 sacks last year was picked one pick after that #76 pick.
  7. Don't think this is true at all. Packer fans are still up in the air about passing TJ Watt. While Watt was slightly more productive he required almost twice as many snaps. Watt had 2.5 more sacks, 4 more tackles for loss and just one more QB hit. He also played in over 335 more snaps with his defense (Davenport played in 416 RS and Playoff snaps because of the preseason hand surgery and the in season toe injury that costs him a month). If Packer fans are excited about Alexander after his rookie season they'd be jumping up and down about Davenport who looked dominate on occasion last year. I'd imagine that New Orleans fans are extremely excited about Davenports future. Don't see it being the same conversation in regards to Fack who didn't look like anything more than a STer for the entirety of his first 2 seasons. As a rookie he was more known for being thrown 15 yards through the air by Trent Williams than anything he did on the field.
  8. 2019 Free Agent Discussion

    Where do you see upside? He's got just 16 sacks over the last 3 years and has struggled badly at beating his man. On top of stinking as a pass rusher last year he stunk in run support. He plays like he's 35 or 36 (and Not Cameron Wake or Terrell Suggs 35 or 36). He hasn't been all that effective since moving back to OLB full time. If he's brought back he needs to be played in the middle exlusively. The days of him beig a starting caliber OLB are long gone IMO. He's not explosive enough anymore and his body can't take the abuse. Even if Jadeveon Clowny, Demarcus Lawrence, Trey Flowers, Frank Clark and Dee Ford are franchised there are better options than CM3. Brandon Graham is a better all around player. Anthony Barr is a younger more explosive player. Preston Smith and ZaDarius Smith are younger players who have been every bit as productive as CM3. Dante Fowler and Shaq Barrett are young guys who haven't gotten a whole lot of oppurtunity. If we don't care about age, guys like Suggs and Wake are substantially better pass rushers than CM3.
  9. A 4th string TE is going to help Rodgers from getting killed more than a TE who's an elite blocker? Not sure where the 20 catches and 189 yards comes from. By giving Rodgers more options he's likely not to have to hold the ball for 15 seconds because he's only got 1 pass catcher who can consistently get open. Given what we seen from AR12 down the stretch in 2016 with a healthy Jared Cook, I'm not sure you could stop him if he ever got a 15 yard per catch, George Kittle caliber of TE.
  10. Packers new slot receiver is ....

    It's not that I don't like our WRs. As a #4 or #5, they'd be fine. As a #2 or #3 not sop much. They showed us this last year just how unbelievably awful our offense is capable of being when we're getting bad, inconsistent play from our WR core. I don't like to assume production from guys who have never produced. We'll certainly agree to disagree.
  11. Packers new slot receiver is ....

    Here's a list of the multi-start WRs Green Bay has used since AR12 took the helm. Donald Driver (08-11) Gregg Jennings (08-12) James Jones (08-10, 12, 13, 15) Jordy Nelson (10-14, 16, 17) Randall Cobb (12-18) Jarrett Boykin (13, 14) Davante Adams (14-18) Ty Montgomery (15) Geronimo Allison (17, 18) Marquez Valdez-Scantling (18) Equanimeous St Brown (18) Jake Kumerow (18) If we were going to list these WR in regards to talent, can anyone objectively tell me that the bottom 4 WRs wouldn't be at or near the bottom of most lists? MAYBE Monty is listed below them but he basically had 6 games at WR before he got moved to RB his sophomore year. We'll have to agree to disagree. The fact that Aaron Rodgers had EASILY the worst supporting cast he's ever had to deal with matters. He shouldn't be responsible for carrying 100% of this offense on his shoulders because he makes a lot of money. Maybe we do have the wrong guy if we're expecting him to be Godgers on every snap, making high end starting WRs out of bottom of the draft prospects or undrafted Free Agents. Heck Jake Kumerow needed 4 years in the NFL before he was able to make a roster and register his first career catch and he's the caliber of prospect we're expecting Rodgers to run a championship caliber offense with. The mention of the Tom Brady approach while failing to acknowledge that his cap hit is bigger than AR12's this year AND next year is kind of funny. Shows the agenda and that Aaron Rodgers will ALWAYS get 100% of the blame. Some fans will always hate him regardless of how he plays because he makes a lot of money.
  12. Packers new slot receiver is ....

    Sure they showed flashes. They also had instances where they looked more like they belonged on the practice squad than in the starting lineup. I just want insurance. There is no such thing as too much talent at WR and I don't want to be stuck looking at 2019's season like we are looking at this last one. Our offense was horrid last year and I don't think it's coincidental that just so happened to be the year where we had EASILY the least talented WR core Rodgers has ever had to work with. How many quility offenses around the NFL needed mutiple low end rookie WRs or undrafted free agents to contribute as quility starters? Also, Allison is a UFA next season. Could be forced to pay him like a high end starting WR if these sophmore's aren't the super stars they are made out to be.
  13. Packers new slot receiver is ....

    Why not Jeff Janis? He's closest comp to any of those sophmore WRs. Guys that are much better athletes than football players. I don't like the Adams comp given how much superior of a WR he was coming out of Fresno. His last year in college was more productive than the college careers of either MVS or EQB. Right. Just like Jeff Janis. MVS's inabilities to be a consistant WR are solely on thew shoulders of Aaron Rodgers. I don't understand how quick some fans are to remove 100% of the accountability from these rookies. EVERYTHING is the result of our terrible QB. You are right about Schroeder's production. Favre turned him into a 1000 yard receiver and it was at a great price. A 17-15 record and back to back seasons missing the playoffs. A 2 seaosn span where he threw 9 more INTs than TDs. Rodgers can surely turn MVS or EQS into 1000 yard receivers but he'll throw 12 to 15 more INTs and we're going to continue to watch the playoffs from home in part because of our terrible offense. How many young low end WR prospects have ever had success in Green Bay? The list of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round WRs is extreamly long. He's elevated the game of high end prospects or proven NFL players WRs. We've never developed a low end WR prospect into a starting caliper WR since AR12 took over. It is year one for those rookies. It's also year 2 of missing the playoffs in part because you've got a dumpster fire for an offense. If we ignore the WR position this year and they aren't the stars they are made out to be it's going to take that much longer to get this offense back up to championship caliper. Can anyone objectively say that this offense was good enough to win a Super Bowl last year with MVS as your #2 option at WR?
  14. New England made a bigger draft investment into Gronk than any of their WRs, any of their starting offensive lineman and all of their edge rushers. Not only that, he's the 3rd highest paid player on their team. New England clearly thinks TE is a lot more important to their success than you do. If New England is the example, they showed us that you can run a high power offense regardless of the player you have at LT. They showed us that pass rushers are one of the easier things to find in the league and absolutely don't require a big investment. They showed us that outside of QB, that RB is the next most important position on an offense. Philly is another terrible example. Zack Ertz has been their leading receiver over the last 3 years and they just used their top pick on a TE in this last draft. Pretty clearly that they value their TEs substantially more than you value them for them. They wouldn't have made the playoffs in back to back years or won the Super Bowl last year without him. Philly's won games regardless of the revolving door QB, OL, RB, WR or on their defense. Whether it was their high draft pick or the career journeyman whom they picked up off the bottom of the NFL trash heap.
  15. I'll agree to disagree. We obviously have entirely differant opinions of what quility TE play is and their worth to an offense. This isn't fantasy football. Kittle is an all pro, record setting TE (despite terrible QB play) who's also an elite blocker. I think he'd get bumped for the QBs, Lattimore and Garrett but there is definetely an arguement after that. Alvin Kamara is a great 3rd down back but he's yet to show anyone he's a 3 down guy. Karrem Hunt's a mediocre athlete who's production is the result of the offense he plays in. Someone might look at JJSS's stats and make the arguement but I don't see it. The chances of JJSS replicating the 88/ 1375/ 5 TDs in San Fran with CJ Bethard and Nick Mullens is slim too none IMO. It's crazy to me that you truely believe that talent still wouldn't matter to NFL teams 2 or 3 years into their NFL careers. Kittle showed an unlimited ceiling last year. That was a historic season despite his QBs being as bad as any in the NFL.
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