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1,267 All-Pro
  1. I wasn’t disputing that, I was responding to your post towards me
  2. Yeah I’m arguing he shouldn’t go first ballot. He should still go in
  3. Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

    It depends. I’d take Gronk for 9 years over any other TE even with injuries because he’s much more complete and a bigger difference maker
  4. The AAF to cease football operations

    Well good thing Vince McMahon wouldn’t do that
  5. Magic Johnson announces resignation

    I'll let you interpret this however you want https://streamable.com/q4xle
  6. Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

    Your opinion is irrelevant. That's who the Hall of Fame voters have put in first ballot. Those are the opinions of the people who make the decision. They want you to have some sort of longevity, have many All Pro's, make it on the All Decade Team, and retire with some sort of All Time records. And 3 of the 5 had multiple championships. Calvin Johnson will not go in First Ballot in a world where TO didn't.
  7. Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

    None of the conventional wisdom says yes and people really need to actually look at the HOF and how they've voted on the position for HOF'ers. 5 NFL players (6 counting Alsworth) went first ballot at WR. 2 Centers went in first ballot 7 Cornerbacks went in first ballot 5 Defensive Ends went in first ballot 5 Defensive Tackles went in first ballot 5 Guards went in first ballot (lineman is hard because they mixed positions a lot but 5 players who were primarily guards went in) 10 linebackers went in first ballot 5 Offensive Tackes went in first ballot (same deal with the rest of the offensive lineman) 14 Quarterbacks went first ballot 11 traditional Running Backs went first ballot 1 Fullback (Jim Brown) went first ballot 3 Halfbacks went first ballot *so basically 15 rushers went first ballot 3 Safety's went first ballot 1 Tight End went first ballot. So basically unless you ran ball (15), threw the ball (14) or were a linebacker (10) realistic only 5 or less at every position make it first ballot. It's incredibaly hard. Guys like TO and Carter waited. Harrison waited.
  8. Calvin Johnson is a first ballot hofer; change my mind

    Raymond Berry: 2x champion, 4x First Team All Pro, 2x Second Team All Pro, 1950's All Decade Team, retired as the leader in most receiving stats) Steve Largeant: 3x First Team All Pro, 4x Second Team All Pro, 1980's All Decade Team, retired with every single WR record. Randy Moss: 4x First Team All Pro, 2000's All Decade Team, holds the single season receiving TD record. Jerry Rice: 3x champion, 10x First Team All Pro, 2x Second Team All Pro, 1980's and 1990's All Decade Team, currenly holds the record for receptions, receiving yards, receiving touchdowns, total touchdowns, and all purpose yards. Paul Warfield: 2x champion 6x First Team All Pro, 1x Second Team All Pro, 1970's All Decade Team, still holds the record for highest Yards Per Reception for Receivers with atleast 300 or more receptions. Those are the 5 WR's who were inducted first ballot into the Pro Football HOF. Then you have Lance Alworth who was far and away the best WR in the AFL Calvin Johnson -had a shorter career than any of them. -never won a championship -has 3x First Team All Pros and 1x Second Team All Pro which is the worst showing of any of the First Ballot guys. -retired 44th all time in receptions. -retired 30th all time in receiving yards. -retired in a tie for 22nd all time in receiving TD's -Only stat he retired in impressive standing in is receiving yards per game. He is 4th. 1 is Julio Jones, 2 is Odell Beckham Jr., 3 is Antonio Brown, 5 is Michael Thomas, 6 is AJ Green. Clearly a recency thing. - one thing that will help is that he holds the single season receiving yards record. However Brown and Jones are in the top 5 so again it feels like a recency thing. - because he missed about half this decade he will struggle to get on the All Decade Team. He clearly is a step below those who made it in
  9. Greater Tight End All-Time: Gonzo Or Gronk?

    This. Gronk is legitimately someone that Belichick has put in some games specifically to run block or add more protection to Brady. Since Gonzalez is the main subject of this thread it's worth noting he was a poor blocker for a large chunk of his career and became passable at best later on. It's pretty much inconceivable that Gonzalez would ever be asked to do what Gronk did when it comes to blocking. It's a huge difference in Gronk's favor. And Gronk's also the better receiver. So again the real argument for Gonzalez is longeivity.
  10. Standardized career QB stats(post-04)

    Depends. For instance Brady's had the best coaching but you could also argue that by and large he's generally succeeded with weaker than the mean skill position talent. Meanwhile Manning's had 4 different head coaches, but he's also had far and away the best skill talent to support him.
  11. Because it's very easy to think of guys to put over him. Just off the top of my head: Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers, Marino, Montana, Graham, Luckman, Unitas, Starr, Elway, Favre, Young, Staubach, Warner, Tarkenton, Dawson. Thats 17 guys right there that without having to think too much I'd put about Ben without even a second thought. So he's already fringe top 20. Then you have guys like Stabler and Fouts who legitimately had years where they were the best QB's in the league and were top tier for extended stretches, then you have older guys like Van Brocklin who are super difficult to judge. Put it this way, Kurt Warner who has a Super Bowl, made 3 appearances and had two MVP's did not go in first ballot. Also keep in mind currently there are exactly 35 QB's in the HOF. Ben would absolutely be on the lower end all time of HOF QB's while at least 5 of his peers would be on the extreme high end (Favre already in and eventually Brady, Brees, Manning, Rodgers will all likely be viewed as top 10). Ben's somebody who realistically deserves to get in at some point with in his first 4-5 ballots. I'd probably make him wait until 2 or 3. Now that can change if the class around him is weak. But if it's between Ben or some poor sap whose been waiting forever and this is his best chance, they are going with the guy waiting. You only let guys jump the line if the are so undisputed that there's no case to make.
  12. Ben’s probably not a fringe top 20 or 25 all time at his position and he played in an era with at least 5 top 10 guys (Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Manning, Favre). At no other position would a guy like Ben go first ballot. Ben’s not a guy voters are going to rush to push through the door at the expense of guys who have waited awhile and are stuck in a logjam. You don’t do that for a player like Ben. You do that for a player like Brees who is going to have every all time records at his position or is like top 5. There’s too many great players at his position in his era and too many guys who deserve to be in that are waiting. People really need look at the type of player that gets in first ballot..
  13. AAF

    It's worthless to them. They have the NCAA for free and under that model they became the biggest sports brand in the world. NCAA football players are probably the most popular atletes not in the 4 major sports. And tbh there's probably 5 or so top tier college guys that are more popular than half of the MLB and NHL players. NFL Europe was terrible financial. Literally every single spring league has field. The CFL and Arena League already take up the market these guys are looking at anyways. That's about the best you could ever do imo.
  14. AAF

    He didn’t even get the technology. The division was fired when he shut down. Had nothing to do with that. He’s also selling a massive 30 story building. Sounds like he just was right on money and wanted out
  15. AAF

    Why? You're going to ask the owners to pay a bunch of expenses for another league that didn't last a year for good PR? Also Dundon really wasn't the problem. Ebersol and Polian didn't have a solid plan. They were missing payroll after 2 weeks. Their initial investors completely ditched them. Dundon basically bailed them out, and later decided it wasn't worth it. Not a good sign if within 8 weeks all your investors are bailing on you and you can't find any stability