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Everything posted by lancerman

  1. Edge Rushers vs. Interior Rushers

    It depends on the offense you are facing. Brady for instance is a lot more susceptible to interior pressure
  2. Le'Veon Bell or Rob Gronkowski?

    Gronk very easily. Gronk has such a wide catch radius that you don't even need to be all that accurate to utilize him well. He'll be a mismatch anywhere on the field and will likely open up match ups for receivers. He has value as a blocker and can beef up your QB's protection if you are playing a particularly strong defense. He has spam ability where you can just abuse him like a cheat code if all else feels. Leveon's great, don't get me wrong. But Gronk is a guy who will likely go down as the most dominant to ever play his position from an athletic standpoint. Leveon will go down as a really great pass catching RB.
  3. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    But that’s how they’ve been voting. The best player of the very early NFL went in on the inaugural class. (Hutson) The best WR of the 50’s, early 60’s and immediate pre Super Bowl era went first ballot. (Berry) The best WR of the late 60’s and mid 70’s went first ballot. (Warfield) The best WR of the late 70’s to mid 80’s went first ballot (Largent) The best WR of the mid/late. 80’s through mid 90’s went in first ballot. (Rice) and finally, the best player of the late 90’s through 2000’s went first ballot. (Moss) Everyone else waited.
  4. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    The problem is you are comparing Berry, Largent and Warfield to today and not how they they were seen in the hierarchy when people voted on them. Like in Largent’s case he retired with 6 of the major all time receiver records. You compare them to what exists today. Not what might exist in the future. TO had a very similar issue to Carter. He didn’t pass Rice, but his stats were arguably second best. But statistics are so inflated for the position from generation to generation that there is a point where you just say “they are going to keep getting better stats anyways”.
  5. Thread likely to be locked, but needless to say the dude's been an Aaron Hernandez level headcase with stories about him having a dark side predating his NFL playing. Some people are just wired differently.
  6. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    This too. I like how the complaint is essentially "journalists get really upset when players impede in their ability to do their job because they don't feel like answering questions for whatever reason on a given day". That's like saying players are self important because they get upset at refs missing calls and impeding in their ability to do their job. What jerks.
  7. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    I think it's to say TO was a professional. But tbh with you TO easily could have been doing that just because he liked being able to show off his abs (and thousands of people have diets like that in their personal life for similar reasons). He certainly wasn't a professional in his locker room. Jerry Rice was a professional. He only cared about working every day. He was a locker room leader. He didn't try to be a distraction for his teams. He tried to focus his team towards winning.
  8. Dumbest Coach Quotes

    I actually kind of agree with this
  9. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    Butts hurt by ruffled feathers.
  10. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    No we are talking about getting in first ballot.
  11. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    1. Yeah for when they retired.. Rice/Moss/Largent/Berry all retired 1 or 2 all time and 1 overall for the era they played in. TO is largely at best considered 3 and 2 for his era. Ala he's a step below them. When they voted on Berry they didn't there would be a Jerry Rice who would smash everything he ever did. You can't retroactively vote that way. 2. No that's sound logic. It has nothing to do with Rice. All 5 of them have this in common a) they were the consensus best QB of their era b) they owned either all time statistics or single season records c) they were voted first team All Pro by the same voters who do the Hall (which shows where they viewed them for that decade) TO is not the consensus best of his era. TO has no All Time Stat records or any single season records to his name. The voters didn't give him First Team All Decade for any of the periods he played in. Ala when TO retired, he was not regarded as highly in the pantheon of great receivers as when those 5 did. When Largent retired for instance, he owned 6 of the All Time statistical receiving records. So when the voters were deciding to put him in the Hall they were looking at someone who had a real claim to being GOAT. 3. Randy Moss right now does have the weakest case. But TO has a weaker one. So you're splitting hairs. There's always going to be a weakest guy. The difference was that Randy Moss can say that he has significant statistical records and was largely viewed as the best of his era by a general consensus, and has a claim to being at worst 3 of all time. TO is below that. And yeah I agree that his offield had more to do with it, but the fact is if you are comparing TO to the people that you are arguing he should be among, he shouldn't be the absolute weakest. Like If TO had the single season yards and TD record, was considered ahead of Moss by virtually everyone and was widely viewed as the most talented of his era, then you could say he cuts the mustard compared to others. But he doesn't. He was just a super elite WR who was probably the third best of the era he played in with Rice and Moss playing during that time.
  12. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    I don't have TO outside the top 5. I'm saying that historically the HOF has only put #1 or #2 of all time WR's in the HOF on the first ballot. If TO made it first ballot, he'd have the weakest case of any 1st ballot HOF'er at his position upon induction.
  13. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    It's generally the majority opinion that Moss was ahead of TO. Also that has yet to be seen. I think longevity will prevent Calvin from going 1st ballot, I think Fitz will probably wait too, but if he doesn't he's still going to finish ahead of TO in receptions and will pass him in yards this year. Brown maybe but we should note that Brown's the only guy whose even on pace with Rice's stats so if he keeps up, he would be more deserving than TO
  14. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    .... that’s their job..... when you refuse you are literally impeding in their job.
  15. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    Again I will maintain that based off his play and the high standards for what a HOF WR getting in first ballot is, he did not belong in the same class. Again Berry could have called himself the GOAT when he retired. Warfield was the best of the first decade of the Super Bowl era. Largent could have called himself the GOAT. Rice put all stats out of contention for at least a couple of generations. Moss is largely seen as the best of his era and the best ever athlete at the position. Id honestly put TO a step below them.
  16. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    People BS about the Hall all the time. "It's not he Hall of Stats it's the Hall of Fame", "but he has incredible stats", "if you can't tell the story of the NFL without them they are in". It's just stupid. And honestly, TO got in, so everyone should just get over it. Everyone's mad at the voters in yet they put him in
  17. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    And only one guy post Jerry is in first ballot and he’s largely viewed as number 2
  18. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    I do that for free. Actually scratch that, I pay to do that and it does nothing to benefit my career.
  19. Why Aaron Rodgers Doesnt Have 2 Super Bowl Rings

    Sherman couldn’t lift his arm up and Rodgers still refused to throw that way. I know it’s more convenient to blame the botched onside but the fact is the defense gave Rodgers six turnovers. It was blatantly obvious that after his MVP season one of his pinpoint passes getting picked off early in the end zone flustered him and he played timid the rest of the game. That game never should have been close
  20. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    No he actually doesn’t they all retired higher than he did in the hierarchy
  21. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    The irony is I don't think it does much to spite the voters who didn't vote for him. The one voter who freaked out at him not going is someone who confirmed he voted for him. It's all the people who went out on a limb for him (voters, HOF players who fought for his case, Steve Young who had statements read before the committee) that came out afterwords and said they were disappointing. The guys who didn't vote for him? They get to sit around and look smug at all the people who fought for his cause that he just let down. They get to say "I didn't want him in and he decided to be the only diva who didn't bother to show up and act like it was an honor, I was right". Also you correctly stated, the ceremony in Canton has nothing to do with the voters. A lot of them don't even show up and they aren't afforded special privileges being there (minus the 2 that are actually in the HOF). So all the people involved with putting that together for the players being enshrined and their families are the ones who are really getting snubbed. And lets be very clear, there are guys that waited a long time to get in the Hall and got upset about it. Nearly every single one of them said the enshrinement ceremony was one of the best days of their life. At the end of the day, TO's the one missing out.
  22. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    He got in.... He didn't his first year, and quite frankly he just doesn't stack up all that well to the WR's who made it in first ballot before him. The 2nd year he was a finalist. The third year he made it. That's not really ridiculous. I just gave you a list of how long WR's have waited to get in the Hall. TO in the grand scheme of things didn't wait that long even if you could question the reasons why they pushed him off.
  23. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    Exactly one voter who did in fact vote for TO said it
  24. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    In yet if you ask most people they will say Moss was better. I can't imagine anyone who watched both thinking TO was the superior WR. And again, every WR who went first ballot was arguably the GOAT at the time or the 2nd best to the reigning GOAT. None of them were in TO's position where you would say he was number 3 (and that's really only going by stats, which for that position inflate each year). And going further I just went through every WR elected in the Hall of Fame since the merger. Aside from the first ballot guys only Irvin who had 3 Super Bowls (TO has none) and Taylor who was the All Time leader in receptions (again TO leads in no All Time Stats) waited as much or less time than TO. So again it's not a big deal that TO waited two years. It's actually probably appropriate. It just really isn't the big deal that people are making it out to be, even if you don't like the reasons they gave.
  25. Owens declines HoF Ceremony Invitation

    A history of WR's going into the Hall of Fame prior to this class. Going backwards Harrison waited 3 years. When he retired he was also all decade and right up near TO in most stats and likely would have matched or passed him in the other ones if he played as many years as him. Cris Carter when he retired was 2 in receptions and TD's behind Rice and 4 in yards. He was All Decade for the 90's. He waited 6 years. Before him, Tim Brown waited 6 years. He was similarily a pretty easy Hall of Fame pick. Rice then went in first year of eligibility Art Monk went in after waiting 8 years. Michael Irvin waited 3 years. He had 3 Super Bowls James Lofton waited 5 years Stallworth waited over 15 years as did Lynn Swann. Tommy McDonald waited 30 years. Charlie Joiner waited 5 years Steve Largen went in 1st ballot. He retired with the record for 6 all time stats and when he retired had a clear argument for GOAT. Biletnikoff waited 5 years Don Maynard waited over 10 and he retired with some pretty good all time records. Charley Taylor waited 2 years when he got inducted in 1984. So I guess he's your closest. He was the NFL all time receptions leader when he retired. He also retired before Jerry Rice was a rookie. So that's basically where we are at with that. Before him Warfield who retired as the All Decade for the 70's and is still the leader in yards per reception over 100 yards got in first ballot. Then in 1973 Raymond Berry went in first ballot. I already discussed him. He led the league in receptions in TD's all time and was the greatest of the immediate pre Super Bowl era. Tom Fears waited 8 years That covers us to the merger. Cry me a river that TO waited 2 years.