Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

Community Reputation

82 Starter
  1. Most talented teams that underachieved?

    I don't know if I'd call any team that made it deep into the playoffs an "underachieving" team. In the end, when it comes down to one game...that's just the way it goes sometimes. How about the 1990 Vikings? Talent out the wazzu, 6-10.
  2. Greatest non SB winning Team of all time.

    Well, he shouldn't have nominated 04 Steelers. 76 Steelers were superior.
  3. Greatest non SB winning Team of all time.

    Nobody in here mentioned the 1976 Steelers. Arguably the greatest defensive stretch for a team in NFL history, and on offense they blocked so effectively that two marginal NFL RBs were both able to go over 1,000 yards. Over their last 9 games of the regular season, they had a 9-0 record and allowed just 28 points (3.1 points per game allowed), which included 5 shutouts.
  4. Is Philip Rivers a HoF QB?

    If Warren Moon is in, Rivers is in. Not first ballot, but after several.
  5. Has Julian Edelman punched his ticket?

    People should check out Deion Branch's playoff numbers in New England if they want a laugh: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/BranDe00/gamelog/post/
  6. Who are the greatest never was' of the NFL?

    Not sure what this even means. Guys who were colossal busts who had some measurables, or guys who actually showed flashes or had a good year or two, seemed like they would be a star for a long time, and then disappeared? For the latter, has anyone mentioned Marcellus Wiley yet? Strangest falloff I've ever seen.
  7. 4th greatest player of Patriots dynasty

    Edelman actually doesn't line up in the slot every single down, nor catch 30 bubble screens per year. He's also actually pretty good with the ball in his hands. He's better than Welker, which isn't saying much.
  8. "Ideal/great slot receiver"

    Teams don't scheme for receivers who average 10.5 yards per catch and score 4 touchdowns on the year. They're too busy worrying about the other receivers and their bigger plays, which in New England's case, started with Randy Moss and finished with Gronkowski. The fact that Welker himself didn't do it anywhere else is proof that it's scheme, not talent. Otherwise, he would have done it in Miami, and he wouldn't have wound up behind the likes of Eric Decker and Emmanuel Sanders in the pecking order in Denver.
  9. "Ideal/great slot receiver"

    For not doing what? LOL, Welker was seen before by the Chargers and Dolphins and neither team thought much of him. He was the Dolphins' 3rd receiver behind Booker and Chambers. And then after leaving New England, he signed with the Broncos for relative peanuts and returned to being a 3rd receiver behind Thomas and Decker, and later Thomas and Sanders. Nobody tried to scheme for him because nobody cared about him. Teams don't game plan to stop "slot receivers." That's why you see them beating linebackers and jogging uncovered so often. The Patriots are unique in the way they spam opponents with underneath crap to their slot receivers in the same way the 49ers were unique in dumping it off to both backs in the flat to the extent they did, which is why Derek Loville caught 87 passes for them in 1995. As for cone times...yeah, most smaller receivers will have better cone times. It's not necessary in the slot. Linebackers and nickel/dime backs aren't as agile as top tier corners.
  10. "Ideal/great slot receiver"

    1. No, they don't. Their job is just to get in the way to allow the back to get to the outside. Nobody is asking Cole Beasley to block Brandon Graham as though Beasley is a TE/OT. 2. It's easier because the corner (when there even is one) doesn't have the sideline to help him defend, nor safety help over the top (although a team could do that in theory, the reality is that that's really not a thing with NFL defenses, since teams more frequently deploy their best receivers from outside, for reasons I mentioned). But of course, the slot is often just working against a linebacker. In case you weren't aware of it, linebackers are not as good in coverage as corners. Watch Julian Edelman on the plays at 0:14 and 1:55. Ebukam and Littleton are not Talib and Peters. That's what lining up in the slot does for a receiver. 3. Outside receivers make traffic catches MORE frequently than slot receivers. Watch the Edelman video and show me where he's going into "LB traffic." Beating a LB one-on-one with everything spread out is not "LB traffic." 4. It makes sense if you actually learn how to read. I said "AT most," not THE most. 5. No, safeties line up inside and then react to outside receivers, providing deep help against outside receivers. They ignore the smurf slot running his shallow in. 6. None of those guys you listed are athletically limited to the slot. 7. A bunch of vague straw man and non sequiturs in a patronizing tone. You don't have an argument. 8. "Literally" means, "not hyperbole or exaggeration" (by the way, the word you have been looking for is, "exaggeration;" hyperbole refers to intentional exaggeration. Accusing someone of hyperbole is like accusing someone of sarcasm). And what I am saying is literally the case. There is not a single example of a receiver who played a significant number of snaps in the NFL who didn't play plenty of snaps in the slot. Not one. Not 1. That's the whole point. If you want to know the main limiting factor for any receiver playing in the slot, it's the time period - and therefore system - he was in. If you go back far enough, most teams ran most plays out of the pro set (no slot receiver). But no matter who it was, over the course of a decent-sized career, they would get their share of plays lined up in the slot. 9. Why would they? Did you miss the part about how it's better for an offense to have guys who can win at every spot on the offense, rather than making one of the spots a dead end? Imagine switching Randy Moss with Wes Welker. Which of these guys do you think would be more adversely affected: Moss being covered inside by some linebacker or nickel corner, or Welker having to try to win against a top tier corner who uses an inside technique, forcing him against the sidelines? 10. The one trick go route guy has absolutely no problem playing in the slot. He can beat linebackers covering him with the best of them. He can also run his go route deep just as much inside. 11. Edelman isn't even the best example of what I'm talking about. His predecessor is.
  11. Better Player: Steve Young or Peyton Manning

    Yeah, sure. Because Manning was so great in the postseason. I'm sure he would love playing in the slop at Candlestick, too. Manning also wouldn't be nearly as effective in that system. They would have to completely change the scheme in order to get anything like what Manning did during his time. A pure pocket passing guy who takes boatloads of snaps out of the shotgun, with heavy use of 3+ WR sets...heads to a team that literally never uses the shotgun, runs 95% of its offensive plays out of the pro set (only 2 WRs), and relies heavily on QB footwork and mobility. You clearly haven't thought this through. And I want to reiterate, Young would kill Manning in a QB drills contest. Manning couldn't even beat Michael Vick in an accuracy drill at one of the Pro Bowls. Young, meanwhile, came out of retirement to team with Jeff Garcia at Garcia's first Pro Bowl and absolutely humiliated him in the accuracy contest, with Young finishing first among all QBs with a score of 66, while Garcia finished dead last with 6.
  12. "Ideal/great slot receiver"

    1. If he's blocking down, his only job is to get in the way. Anyone can do that. Even QBs can block players in that regard. The idea that the smurfs whom people label "slot receivers" have to be better blockers than the bigger receivers is pretty comical. 2. Uh, no. A receiver on the outside trying to find a soft spot in zone is heading towards the exact same areas of the field a slot would be. He has to identify the exact same things. 3. Fear of what contact? You're not allowed to jam a receiver after 5 yards. It's clear you have never actually watched a football game before where you actually paid attention to what route running looks like. And if you're referring to taking a hit in traffic after catching it...the outside receivers are heading into the same traffic with any of those same types of routes, and have the same risk of getting hit. The "linebacker traffic" from zone coverage doesn't go away just because you are starting from the outside before breaking in. 4. Slot receivers get one-on-one matchups at most. They frequently get no man coverage - only LBs in zone. Outside receivers are the ones who have to worry about the players behind the corresponding corner (safeties). Once a slot receiver beats his one man, it's over. It's just so obviously way easier in every regard that it's unreal to me that you are actually trying to contest it. There's a reason every receiver labeled a "slot receiver" was a late round pick/UDFA coming out of college. 5. Calling it the "Y" receiver doesn't make it a separate position. Every talented receiver will line up everywhere to the point where you can't even label him an X, Y, or Z. The position is "wide receiver," not X/Y/Z. Aside from in the playbook, nobody ever tried to classify WRs as being one thing until the advent of the inferior receivers catching freebee short passes out of the slot. 6. Uh, no. It's not hyperbole at all. Literally every receiver to have ever played the game any significant number of snaps has lined up in the slot numerous times. That is a simple fact, like saying that the earth is round. 7. No, because then defenses would adjust their coverages to focus on the slot receiver (based on predictability), and the offense would be more limited with where they could go with the ball because their weaker receiver wouldn't be able to get open on the outside. Having, say, 4 guys on the field who could beat the coverage, is better than having only 3. It is harder to defend a receiver in the slot, as I noted before, but the sum of having more guys who could get open is preferable to putting your best receiver in the slot on every down and defenses doing their best to take him away (while with some added limitations to what they can do), while having a receiver lining up outside who provides no threat whatsoever. 8. Because playing in the slot is much easier. There is absolutely no ability you need inside that you don't need outside, but there are many abilities that you need outside that you don't need inside. The lesser receivers can't play on the outside; they can only play inside. Whereas actually talented receivers can play anywhere.
  13. Rice wasn't even a top 5 all-time route runner. This myth of him being some kind of overachieving technician needs to die. Rice wasn't really one to break down corners down one-on-one; Rice was an athletic game breaker who would either burn you deep or break tackles/break away after the catch on a short reception. Isaac Bruce was the GOAT route runner.
  14. Depends on Randy's mood. He would put team 4 over the top if he were motivated.
  15. Better Player: Steve Young or Peyton Manning

    Young was the better passer, Manning was the better QB. Young would murder him in an accuracy contest, but Manning was an offensive coordinator on the field.