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  1. Again thanks for your reply and for explaining a little bit more in depth of your ranking and evaluation process. I admire your dedication (20 years of doing this) with the players and games you have watched and the catalogs you have, you should explore being an NFL Scout. Now back to your post. I never stated Wisconsin nor Stanford was not elite OL’s. I was making the point that Kansas State was just as good. I pointed out that with such elite RBs you would think their rushing yards per game and avg per rush would be much higher and not basically the same as Kansas State. All three OL’s are good. Also Will make it a point this weekend to watch both Wisconsin and Stanford 2017 games (I have on demand) As for your comments on Big 12 defenses. First I believe that now especially in CFB great offense beat great defense most times. Also state you don’t like or use a numerical value yet you use just that (defensive rankings) to help your points about weak Big 12 defense? Indiana has a higher ranked defense (27) than the entire Big 12 except TCU (19) yet Indiana was 5-7. I believe many teams in the Big 12 would beat them handily. Also Purdue went 7-6 in the Big 10 and Iowa went 8-5. Nebraska was 4-8, Maryland 4-8, Indiana 5-7, Minnesota 5-7 and Illinois 2-10. I think Kansas State could compete in the Big 10 esp since every team doesn’t play each other every year. In 2017 Wisconsin did not have to play Penn State nor Michigan State. In closing after reading your evaluation methods it seems similar to me as PFF except you don’t assign numerical grades and you don’t have the capibility nor the resources to watch every play of every player of every CFB game like PFF can. No need to reply or continue this thread. I will continue to look for your posts about 2019 draft rankings and prospects and your evaluations of players and or teams. Thanks for some healthy discussions. If I came off as argumentative I apologize that was not my intent. I look forward to some great CFB games and your thoughts and comments on players and games throughout the season .
  2. Again thanks for the reply. I want to respond to your post and also ask you a few questions. Yes I am new to the board (I stated that in my very first post) also I was asking a question when I stated “do you value some players over others because they play for higher profile programs that regularly get top HS players with allot of stars?” Never stated that is how you came to yours evaluations. You keep stating that Risner is the only star on the team and I kept asking you what is your criteria for a star player ? I assume it is what you personally see when studying film, regular season and post season awards esp Coaches nominations,upside and potential and I guess NFL draft potential. Could you briefly explain your method? Also to demean preseason awards well I guess that is your progative. The awards are based on previous season performance. Also many on your draft list are on Athlons Preseason list. So I guess it’s pretty accurate. Also no I do not pay for PFF. The information I get is readly available to all for free. Also you are incorrect in your assumptions about how they come up with their evaluations. I wont go into details (you can research yourself) but I briefly stated the main parts (watch every play of every game of every player by ex NFL players who played the position they evaluate) so I get you want your own evaluations by your own eyes that’s cool but again I ask what is your method of evaluating players? What are your keys and what are you looking for when watching a player? Also I was curious (since you are so high on Stanford and Wisconsin) of how Kansas State compared with irrefutable facts. Stanford has a legit Heisman Canidate in Bryce Love and two of the best TEs in the Nation. Wisconsin has one of the top RBs in the Nation in Johnathan Taylor and stud QB Alex Hornibrook. Kansas State has no one at those positions even close to that talent Yet Kansas State was just as good in most Offensive categories as both: Stanford: 32 points per game 262 rush per game (5.9 avg) 196 passing Wisconsin. 33 points per game 222 rush per game (5.0 avg) 128 passing Kansas State: 32 points per game 198 rushing per game (5.0 avg) 178 passing Kansas State did this with much less talents at RB and QB. Also interesting when you look at the schedules. I believe outside of playing Michigan and Ohio State, Wisconsin had the easier schedule of the three. Also interesting that Kansas State played 3 opponents who were ranked in the final poll and one was a CFP team(Oklahoma, TCU, Oklahoma State) Stanford played two (USC, Washington) and Wisconsin played two( Ohio State and Northwestern) Based On all of this one could argue Kansas State was more efficient with far less talent at RB and QB and they played more ranked teams and a tougher or just as tough schedule. I think this speaks volumes of how good the Kansas State OL was. So in closing if you do not mind can you explain your background? Are you a former College player? Coach? Scout? Sports writer? Also again what is your method for evaluations other than watching some film on some players? For me I am just a fan who loves college football. I like to see various opinions and I love detailed stats. I think that along with watching film gives a more complete picture on a player.
  3. Thanks for the response I enjoy reading your posts. However I want to respond to some of your assumptions and arguments. First YOU said no one on Kansas State has EVER been selected or nominated for All Conferance or National awards. I proved that you were incorrect. You never specified parameters or “criteria” such as no preseason or Coaches nominations only. So question? In your opinion only Conferance Coaches nominations count? I gave you Athlon Sports a very respected National Magazine who does a extremely in depth analysis and breakdown of every College team (go grab a Magazine and see for yourself) I gave you media (Associated Press and USA Today) as for the Rimington list again you said no one was nominated or selected for anything Conferance wise or Nationally......yet now you try and change the narrative to state those nominations mean nothing? Also 57 selections out of how many total players playing Center? There are 255 teams in FBS and FCS let’s assume each team has at minimum 2 centers on the roster. That is 510 centers so only 57 get nominated that is 11%. So I think that is a nice accomplishment for all the players nominated. So your statement that it is not difficult to make the list is false in my opinion. Also I think Alvarez is a solid player (he just couldn’t beat out players on his team) and he made the list I believe because of his previous accomplishments which is how I see the majority of these lists are conducted. Very rarely do you see efforts put into seeing if a player got better, took some steps back or a new player emerged to deserve a nomination. That is why yes I am biased to PFF. I know of no other National platform who’s sole job is to evaluate and watch every game, every play and every player. How much fairer can you get than that? As for the All Bowl team the reason Scott Frantz made that team was because he shut down the #1 NFL Draft pick Miles Garrett when we played Texas A&M in the Texas Bowl in Houston. Zero sacks and ONE tackle for Garrett the ENTIRE GAME. We also beat Texas A&M for the game. In regards to your comments about the Coaches All Conferance Teams. Well one thing I do know is very rarely do the HC sits down and fills out a All Conferance team list. They can’t nominate or vote for their own players and many just give this duty to an assistant or even a GA. Also these lists are very biased. Everyone assumes atleast in the Big 12 that Oklahoma and Texas must occupy the majority of the lists. There is NO WAY that these Head Coaches are sitting down at the end of the season and watching film and evaluating all these players and different positions. Bill Snyder is 1000% not doing that and I would imagine 90% of the other HCs do not as well. So putting more weight on Coaches nominations vs media outlets and magazines whose sole purpose is evaluation and who actually watch the games is incorrect in my opinion. Oh yes just a note. I follow on Twitter a current Veteran NFL Scout. He has stated repeatedly that NFL scouts could care less about college awards....why? Because each NFL team has a small army of scouts and they do their own evaluations, they watch the film and they do their own stats (they don’t trust others) As for the 247 list on best OL. I get it Wisconsin plays in the Big 10 and Stanford In PAC 12 and both have a nice history of getting OL in the league. Also people hear Kansas State and just automatically assume they are not talented just a bunch of hard nosed overachievers whom Coach Snyder has molded into serviceable D1 players. I admit I haven’t watched many Wisconsin or Stanford games but we did play Stanford two years ago and more than held our own. Again opinions, we all have one. You say Kansas State OL is most likely a top 10 unit but no where close to Wisconsin and Stanford and no where near the talent level.....why? Because Stanford and Wisconsin players were 4 and 5 stars out of high school? Stars mean nothing once you get to College. Risner was a 3 Star, Beecham was a 3 Star yet both are on your list for 2019 Draft. Again opinions we all have them. Regardless of how you feel about other media or people who post lists, there are others who feel Kansas State has one of the best OL in the Nation. Also I could have posted other lists showing that. They were Top 10 in 2017 as well. Also I never said the other players on our OL were “elite” and the term you used was “Star” so i asked “what is a Star in your eyes?” “ a first round pick?” I asked that because if that is your criteria then most teams including Wisconsin and Stanford have 1 or zero stars. That was the point I was trying to make. As for Kansas State and Beecham yes of course I am biased. Although believe it or not I am a Alabama native. Roll Damn Tide! I will only root against Bama if they ever play Kansas State when Beecham is still on the team.......that ain’t gonna happen so I am good lol. Thanks for the well wishes for Beecham. Yes he is an unknown to most NFL scouts and teams. I never heard of Will Hernandez until the Senior Bowl and the NFL Combine so it can happen (go from unknown to possible draft pick) playing next to Risner can’t hurt and if he performs to his ability and they way we all think he will, I am sure after watching him this season he will climb up your board significantly. Just a note we play 14th ranked Mississippi State the second game of the season in Manhattan (11am game). They have THREE SEC All Conferance DL and all 3 are projected to be high NFL draft picks (Jeffery Simmons, Montez Sweat, Gerri Green) so the opportunity for our OL on National TV in a huge Big12 vs SEC game is there. Finally an excellent take on K-State defense. Hardest hit on DL and LB. Trey Dishon will have to step up and try and emulate Will “troll under the bridge” Geary. Reggie Walker had a sophomore slump after being named the Freshman Defensive Player of the year in the Big 12 at DE so he will have to step up as well. We have two athletic and fast LB (Patton and Sullivan) though not as cerebral as last years LB we should be faster and more athletic. The DBs with Goolsby, Kendall Adams, leading they way should be solid. New D Coordinator waiting to see the changes he makes.
  4. In regards to PFF I already gave my reasons for taking their stats, grades and analysis (they watch every play of every game and grade every player not just a select few, former NFL Players who played the position do the grading, consensus is used for final grading. My point is taking evaluations from a trusted source along with your own evaluations as well as other factors (size, length, competition level etc) would give a more complete picture. PFF has flaws and some misses of course they do but they also hit on a lot of players early before they hit everyone’s radar for example: they have been high on Risner for 3 years. They were high on Will Hernandez and Isaiah Wynn before they blew up during bowl games, Senior Bowl and NFL Combine. They are pretty spot on with a lot of prospects in my opinion. In regards to Kansas State OL being one of the best in the Nation, I am not the only one that thinks that: https://247sports.com/ContentGallery/College-footballs-top-positional-units-entering-2018-120507486/#120507486_1 In regards to Risner you say he is the only “Star” on the OL, so what in your eyes constitutes a “Star” first round pick? You also again went with “assumptions” and did not research when you said “Risner is the only star the rest have NEVER even been All Conferance even in the Big 12 much less nationally” Scott Frantz: 2018 Preseason All Big 12, 2nd team (Athlon Sports) 2016 All Bowl Team (Associated Press and USA Today) 2015 Big 12 All Freshman Team (1st team) Adam Holtorf: 2018 Preseason All Big 12 (2nd team Athlon Sports) 2018 Rimington Watch List Nominee Tyler Mitchell and Abdul Beecham: 2018 Preseason All Big 12 3rd team(Athlon Sports) In regards to passing you are right Kansas State does not pass a lot (about 40% of the time per game) but that doesn’t mean they are not great pass blockers. If you watch their games you know that we don’t have elite receivers or an elite Qb so when we throw it takes “time” for the players to get open. I have seen K-State OL hold blocks for 5 seconds or more. That is an eternity in football passing game. As for Beecham again he is a legit 6”3” 315lbs, 33.5 Arms and 82 inch wingspan. His length is elite for Tackles and he is a guard. I don’t think his height will be an issue. Will Hernandez 6”2” Isaiah Wynn 6’3”. Also you are right about not much buzz or talk on Beecham in regards to NFL draft. However hopefully playing next to Risner who is on the radar will put some spotlight on Beecham and maybe he can come out of nowhere like Hernandez and Wynn. In regards to Keyes and Alvarez being better than Beecham, that is your opinion. Beecham played the entire season including the bowl game vs UCLA with a completely torn labrum. He started every game and although his range of motion was restricted by a huge shoulder brace he still stood out to you and I have already posted what PFF has stated about him. He is completely healed and is destroying people in practice as he can go full speed and engage without his shoulder popping out. Just a little note on Alvarez. You stated you wanted to see what he could do after missing last season due to injury and you had him as a 4th round pick in 2019 draft.......no way. First he wasn’t injured he CHOSE to redshirt as a Senior because he could not beat out Wren at Center nor Powers or Samia at guard. He knew Wren would be gone so he thought he would automatically get the starting center spot this year. Well Creed Humphries has something to say about that. A friend of mine who is a Oklahoma insider told me Creed will be the starter when the season starts. Creed is bigger and more athletic and more in the mold of the type of player the OL Coach wants. Alvarez most likely won’t start on his own team and missed all last season voluntarily don’t see him getting drafted much less 4th round In regards to Valentine he decided to not play any more and pursue his dream of becoming an Air Traffic Controller. His replacement will likely be Blaise Gammon(6”7” 260) and he can catch (hopefully we throw him some passes) Our FBs will most likely be Adam Harter(6’2” 245) or Luke Sowa (6’3” 235) Harter has nice hands he had 7 catches for 60 yards in the spring game. Sowa is more in the mold of Dimel. Sowa had 2 carries for 39 yards and TD in the spring game. Also watch out for Chabastian Taylor a 6”4” 230 specimen. He is a big bodied receiver who High points the ball and is a red zone match up nightmare. He had 5 catches for 118 yards and 2TDs in spring game. I think we will be fine with the loss of some key players if the new OC uses his weapons and opens up the offense a little
  5. Thanks for the response! I love some good back and forth discussions. I would like to counter point some of your comments as well as make some corrections on your assumptions. You mentioned issues with PFF and to a degree that is warranted. However I feel they have continued to improve and tweak their product. They do watch every single play of every College game and collectively rate the players. They use ex NFL players who played the position to get a more accurate evaluation. I think this is far more than others who only watch a few games or even just a few plays or just go with the popular names instead of looking at more players in general. You even mentioned you noticed Beecham only because you were looking at Risner. Many players fall through the cracks sometimes with this method. Also just fun facts and stats, Risner gave up 4 pressures in almost 400 snaps, Beecham only gave up 7 in the same amount. Also I get what you are saying In regards to “group” rankings to an extent. However the point I was trying to make was twofold. First to show that some Big 12 OG you had rated above Beecham were actually rated lower in game grade performance than him. Second I saw another post on this forum where a ranking of OL as a unit was done. Wisconsin OL was very high. They are a great unit that for 2017 avg 5.0 yards per run and only gave up 21 sacks. Well K-State also avg 5.0 yards per run and only gave up 24 sacks. Maybe they are not Top 3 but they are Top 10 in my opinion. Finally 4-5 OL out of 30 in a conference who make it and play in the NFL is a large number in my opinion In regards to your comments and assumptions on Beecham, If you don’t know or can’t verify then maybe it is best to not assume until you can. For the record Beecham is a legit 6’3” 315lbs WITHOUT shoes on. He has a thick build (similar to Will Hernandez) and gives the appearance he is short. You don’t realize how tall he is until he is next to you. Also your concerns about his length are unfounded. Beecham has 33.5 inch arms (Most NFL teams want this length for Tackles) Beecham also has a EIGHTY TWO INCH WINGSPAN......that is like someone who is 6’10” and I believe is why he is such a good pass blocker, defenders can’t get into his body. I am aware of Beecham because I am his relative. Finally you mentioned you could have possibly underrated him and you only watched him a little. Well I hope you go back and watch some of his games from last season(Texas, Oklahoma, Baylor, UCLA etc) and watch his games this year. Just a small note Beecham has been moved from LG to RG and will play next to Risner this season and that will have KState’s best two OL on the same side. A lot of runs will go right and everyone will get to see Beecham’s abilities. In regards to Kaltmayer. I agree he is a solid very long OT and he did an admirable job filling in for a injured Risner. However he only has a few starts in his K-State career and never because he beat someone out, it was always because of injuries. So let us concede he can’t ever beat out Risner, but he also can’t beat out Scott Frantz either. Atleast on Kansas State he isn’t a starter but yes maybe on another team he could start. I believe since Risner is so versatile that it really depends on what the team that is looking at him needs. I believe his best position is center or guard. He can play tackle if needed but interior OL is where I think he will end up. He is very similar to Cody Whitehair who plays Center for the Bears. finally I agree that our run game is helped by TEs and FBs but not to the extent you believe. Kansas State is an inside running team with a lot of pulling from the interior line. We don’t have the speed or athletes to consistently run outside. Our OL is the engine that makes the offense go. The TE and FB is important but not the key to our running game. Thanks again for the reply. I look forward to more of your thoughts and analysis on various subjects regarding College football and 2019 NFL Draft.
  6. Power 5's highest pass-block grade among guards According to the team at Pro Football Focus, Gonzalez has the best grade of a pass blocker among all returning guards in FBS football. With a grade of 86.6, Gonzalez sits ahead of Nebraska’s Jerald Foster (86.4) and Abdul Beecham of Kansas State (86.0) Who is (Third in the Nation amongst all returning Offensive Guards)
  7. PFF Big 12 Interior OL Rankings 1. Kansas State - Adam Holtorf (83.8), Tyler Mitchell (81.1), and Abdul Beecham (80.7) - 245.6 2. Oklahoma State - Marcus Keyes (84), Johnny Wilson (75.2), and Ry Schneider (66.0) - 225.2 3. TCU - Cordel Iwuagwu (73.9), David Bolisomi (73.5), and Kelton Hollins (68.9) - 216.3 4. Oklahoma - Ben Powers (81.5), Cody Ford (75.9), and Dru Samia (52.8) - 210.2 5. Iowa State - Will Windham (73.8), Josh Knipfel (64.3), and Julian Good-Jones (48.6) - 186.7 6. Texas Tech - Jack Anderson (77.7), Jacob Hines (70.4), and Paul Stawarz (36.8) - 184.9 7. Texas - Patrick Vahe (70.3), Patrick Hudson (67.5), and Zach Shackleford (46.2) - 184 8. Kansas - Chris Hughes (70.2), Andru Tovi (62.8), and Mesa Ribordy (49.3) - 182.3 9. West Virginia - Josh Sills (81), Matt Jones (49.8), and Isaiah hardy (42.8) - 173.6 10. Baylor - Blake Blackmar (73.5), Sam Tecklenburg (50.4), and Xavier Newman (38.4) - 162.3
  8. New to the board. Great content. Wanted to comment on the 2019 Draft projections for OGs. By my count there were 18 in 7 rounds. 1. Dalton Risner (K-State) 1. Martez Ivey (Florida) 2. Nate Herbig (Stanford 2.Connor McGovern:PS 3. Michael Jordan(OSU) 3. Pierschbacher(Bama 3. Benzschwal (Wisconsin) 4. J Alvarez (Sooners) 4. Marcus Keys (Okie st 4. M Dieter (Wisconsin 5. T Prescod (NC St) 5. Patrick Vahe (Texas) 5.B Fanaika (Stanford 5. Lester Cotton (Bama) 6. Chaze Wright(PennSt 6. L McNeil (Louisville) 6. D Stanley (S Carolina 7. Abdul Beecham Nice to see some Big 12 players on the list. I am a big Kansas State and Bill Snyder fan. I think per PFF Kansas State has the highest rated interior OL in the Big 12: (Abdul Beecham OG, Adam Holtorf Center and Tyler Mitchell OG) Also I believe Abdul Beecham should be higher than potential 7th rounder. His PFF pass Blocking grade of 86.0 was the best in the Big 12 and the third best in the Nation for FBS. His overall PFF grade of 80.0 was higher than Vahe of Texas who is rated as a potential 5th round draft pick. In closing I believe Kansas States OL should be in the discussion for one of the best in the Nation. Dalton Risner is an All American at RT, Adam Holtorf is a Rimington Nominee at Center, Tyler Mitchell has a 82.0 overall PFF grade, Abdul Beecham is the third highest rated Pass Blocking OG in FBS per PFF and Scott Frantz is an consistent All Big 12 player.