Mr Bad Example

Calvin Johnson played the bulk of his career with Stafford, who doesn't suck.

Manning, like Montana (or even Steve Young or Roger Staubach) had an "enough" arm - was he going to wow you with how the ball jumped out of his hand? No, but it was certainly strong enough to get the ball anywhere it needed to go.

Take up a lot of room in the hot tub, most likely.

My favourite WW1 movies is Joyeux Noel (and I need to give Gallipolli a rewatch one of these days) and if you haven't seen Memphis Belle or Twelve O'Clock High for WW2 films, both are excellent.

Well, if they offered a new contract and Mike LaFleur signed it, that's hardly "blocking" IMO

Nolan Cromwell wept.

I think McCarthy promoted him to OC in '17 and then sacked him after that season when the offense underperformed - which after '18 and '19 we know that there were other issues with the offense. When he was coaching RBs and WRs, you could see their performance tick up. I feel like his problems as OC were less with his coaching ability (though it's possible the Peter Principle was in effect) and more just the state of Green Bay at that time.

I thought Edgar Bennett was unemployed, but he's with the Raiders right now. RBs and WRs performed at a high level under him, and IMO he was scapegoated for systemic failures on offense.

He was great in '10 and the rest of his time in Philly he was about the same as he was in Atl. Vick's 2010 season was the dog in a hat of his career.

Thing is, Phi didn't necessarily build around Vick, they just gave him a HoF offensive coach. And your last part, I mean, that's certainly fair; one could argue that even worked in RGIII's favour until Shanahan decided to trot him out in a playoff game with a shredded knee. But at this point all we can do is go by what we have as facts; Vick's "woulda, coulda, shoulda" career is just conjecture. Someone earlier mentioned Randall Cunningham, and he's actually an even better example of an athletic QB who was tossed out without much in the way of supporting cast, scheme, or coaching for a good chunk of his career...and HE managed better #s on a more consistent basis in a less passer-friendly era than Vick did.

I hate to sound like I'm poo-pooing Vick's playoff win, but that was a beat-to-crap GB team with Marty Schottenheimer Jr (as far as playoff chokes) at HC. The "Lambeau Mystique" is, if not overrated, only a factor when you have Curly Lambeau, Vince Lombardi, or Mike Holmgren coaching GB.

Sure, but apples-to-apples means that while being a significant rushing threat, Jackson still beat Vick's career bests in league rank as far as passing tds (Jackson 1st, Vick 10th), passer rating (Jackson 3rd, Vick 4th), comp pct (Jackson 1st, Vick 10th) and oh yeah ranked in the top 10 in rushing yds which Vick never did. If you compare it THAT way, Jackson has topped lot of significant bests Vick has. In his first full season as starter. Now, he could certainly regress (and definitely will, his td % is unsustainable), but one could argue that in many measures Jackson has already had a better season than Vick EVER did. Especially since his season beats Vick's best passing season AND his best rushing season, which came in '10 and...well, either '02, '06, or '10, respectively ('02 and '10 are comparable as far as yds/ypc/tds; in '06 his yds and ypc were career best but his tds were low).

Vick improved massively in 2010....and then regressed to same ol' Vick for the rest of his career.

I'm on board with CMC being first, just because he can accumulate total yds through rec, which is a lot less of a pounding than carrying the rock. Plus it isn't as if he isn't able to do that; he can rack up 1700 total yds every year on say 200-ish carries and 80 catches; players like Zeke and Henry are going to need 300 carries, which wears you down more. Not sure about Saquon or Chubb, it kinda depends on how their crap situations end up. I think Saquon's elusiveness means he will age better along with McCaffrey than the pounders.

If you look at the Pythagorean wins (just under 10) and their record in 1 score games (6-1) they most likely will regress in those categories, but they could still improve as a team and be 11-5/12-4.