iknowcool

I don’t see what that has to do with this season though. If you think he’s better than Allen, you have to play him. Finances aren’t gonna matter until the offseason, and quite frankly this team isn’t in a position to wait and see how the young QB develops. We have win-now talent considering the age of our team and upcoming expiring contracts. Rivera and Hurney have their jobs on the line. In 2019 they have to play the best QB. IMO you go Cam over Allen until a healthy Cam doesn’t look up to par, or if he gets hurt again. Then in 2020 you can revisit who would be better financially

Did you read my post at all? I even said at the end that, even if Newton started the rest of the season and played well, it would still be a question in the offseason on who to go to. I'm well aware there are advantages of keeping Allen at a cheaper contract than Newton at whatever he is making or what he would ask to be paid. So yes, I know it's more than "Cam a better player doe", if that is what you are reducing my post to. Allen in his 5 starts: 64.4%, 1129 yards, 9 TDs, 0 INTs, 107.5 QB Rating (7.58 Y/A, 8.79 AY/A), 25 rushing yards, 1 rushing TD Newton in his 8 starts last year prior to injury: 67.3%, 1893 yards, 15 TDs, 4 INTs, 100.8 QB Rating (7.2 Y/A, 7.65 AY/A), 342 rushing yards, 4 TDs Allen has been the slightly better passer while throwing less picks, while Newton was a far better runner. I won't even mention fumbles because in general, I'm not too big on holding fumbles in the pocket against QBs, but there's no denying that has been a huge issue for Allen. Allen might be a better fit for Norv's offense, but it's not a proven fact. Especially when Allen hasn't really been tested; he didn't exactly perform particularly well against the Texans and Jags. We almost certainly lose against the Texans if not for the defense making up for his 3 fumbles and CMC, and definitely lose to the Jags without McCaffrey. LIS, I don't disagree that Allen might be better. That's why I'm confused with your whole "Cam a better player doe" comment. My general point is that, for this season, considering we have a Super Bowl caliber defense and good enough players on the offense, that I don't think you can just not play Newton unless you are sure Allen is better. Your point about money is good and moving on from Newton in the offseason and sticking with Allen very well could be the better decision, but financials at this point don't matter and won't until 2020. Right now it is about playing the best QB, and I'd rather find out if Newton is that guy before I completely give up on him. Would you not agree that it would be better to go from Cam to Allen, if Newton plays poorly, than from Allen to Cam, if Allen plays poorly but before we know if Newton is still able to play at a good level?

I remember when the Panthers signed McCoy, I was told how the McCoy for sure only chose the Panthers over the Browns because of money and there was no possible way he could think the Panthers were a better team lol This is why you can't crown a team that hasn't had a winning season in years regardless of the amount of talent they've acquired, especially when few of the players on the team actually have experience in the NFL or on a winning team. Stuff like that matters so much, more-so when the head coach is Freddie Kitchens. Browns will be much better next year IMO, assuming they fire Kitchens. I know they will get criticism for firing another head coach so quickly but dude is terrible, they would be so much better off cutting ties right now than waiting to see if it will eventually click. Granted I guess there is a chance they could make a playoff push considering their schedule and talent, but it's gonna be hard. I'd be shocked if they beat the Patriots in Foxborough with their offensive line vs that defense, so they will likely be 2-5. After that though, they have a stretch of games @ Broncos, vs Bills, vs Steelers, vs Dolphins, @ Steelers, vs Bengals, @ Cardinals, vs Ravens, and @ Bengals. All winnable games, but I don't think I've seen enough of this team to believe they can go on a 8-1 run and I'm not sure 9-7 will be enough to make the playoffs. Then again, maybe it will be. AFC is so bad. Only 7 teams .500 or above with 2 of those teams have negative point differentials (Colts and Raiders). In comparison, the NFC has 11 (!) teams .500 or above and only 1 of the teams have a negative point differential (Rams, and I buy in them a lot more than Colts and Raiders for obvious reasons). I know it's early in the season, but the difference in the 2 conferences has been super evident early this season.

As far as Kyle Allen goes, I genuinely don't know what the team should do. The games against the Texans and Jags were concerning -- even ignoring his tendency to fumble whenever he's hit, I question his ability to make plays downfield. He's underthrown Samuel a fair amount, which you know happens because not everyone is Mahomes, but its concerning especially when we start playing better defenses. With that said he is 7th in the league in AY/A, so it isn't like he isn't A) being efficient and B) allowing the offense to get enough yards to move the ball. And he's a 2nd year QB. But my gut instinct tells me that it isn't so much that he's good as much as it is he's adequate. And is that enough for this team? Maybe, if the defense stays at an elite level and the players around Allen keep playing well (read: CMC stays at an MVP level). I think a healthy Cam is 100% better than Allen, but is a 100% healthy Cam a thing anymore? Or for better phrasing, is a 100% Cam the same thing as a 100% Cam from 2-3 years ago? We saw what Newton was capable of before his injury last year - 67%, 15 TDs to 4 INTs, 100.8 QB Rating, to go along with 342 rushing yards and 4 TDs. Allen's passing numbers are slightly better, but obviously his rushing is nowhere close. I'm not really sure there is a wrong decision here, because at the end of the day nobody really knows what to expect from Newton. If you think he can be as good as he used to, I think you have to play him and hope for the best. I don't think you can stick with Allen simply because we're winning with him, unless you genuinely think a 100% Allen > a 100% Newton. If I'm Rivera, then I'm starting Newton and if he falters, put Allen back in. Newton has always been a team-first guy despite his undeserved reputation, and so while obviously he wouldn't agree with a benching, I really don't think he would take it that negatively if he was playing so poorly to the point where a benching was warranted. I think it's a lot harder to go from Allen back to Newton though, simply because bad games from Allen could simply be chalked up to inexperience. If we wait until Week 12 to play Newton after bad games from Allen, and then Newton underwhelms (either due to rust or injuries having taken their toll), then at that point we will be kind of beat. I think you have to find out as soon as possible what you still have with Cam Newton. The toughest decision will come in the offseason though. Even if Newton starts upon arrival and plays very well, I think Newton vs Allen will be a discussion Rivera, Hurney, and Tepper will have to have unless he plays at an elite level. You can't discount the fact that Allen comes a lot cheaper and at the very least, appears to be a competent QB. Either way, it's gonna be sad if Newton's days here are coming to a close. By far my favorite player I've followed. He's done so much for this franchise and has put his body on the line, more than we could have asked or expected.

I swear there used to be more Panthers fans on this forum lol Our pass rush is insane, man. I was way too young to remember the Peppers/Buckner/Rucker/Jenkins days so I could be wrong, but this has to be the best pass rush I've ever seen the Panthers have. Even better than the 2013 too. Burns, Irvin, McCoy, Addison, Poe, Miller... even Haynes, Obada, and Butler have been putting in work and getting pressure. Butler in particular has looked REALLY good filling in for Short. And we've got players on the back-end who can blitz really well too - Reid and Elliott have done a good job with our DB blitzes. They are so well designed and Rivera knows how to disguise them. We haven't seen Boston blitz much yet, but you know it's coming. And Shaq Thompson? Holy crap. ILB has turned out to be the perfect role for him because his performance this year vs years past has been night and day. I was ready to write him off as a disappointing 1st round pick because while he's previously flashed talent, it wasn't at this level. He's been elite this year and arguably better than Kuechly. Exceptional coverage, elite against the run, and of course, his blitzing is tremendous too. There was one play vs the Bucs where Kuechly pointed him in the direction he should go, I think the A gap, and Thompson got there in a millisecond. He couldn't bring Winston down, but we won't be playing QBs as big as Winston every week. What happens when the pass rush doesn't get there, which is rarely nowadays? The coverage is fantastic. By far the best our pass defense has looked in the Rivera era and I'm including 2015 in that. 2015 was mostly Norman + Coleman being in the right position at the right time + Kuechly playing at a GOD level for a MLB in coverage. Still good, but this year, it feels like everyone in the secondary is in unison. Boston has his typical lapses of course, but otherwise we've been strong, especially with Jackson out the last couple of weeks. Bradberry has always been a solid corner, but he's gotten more consistent and I feel comfortable in saying he's been elite this year. The game against Evans was really his first bad game and even then, I mean, it's Mike Evans. After years of shutting him down, he was bound to have a good game. And Cockrell has been very good too. Elliott is a nice surprise at the nickel spot and Reid was worth the contract extension despite his, at times, terrible tackling. I love this defense. I think it's going to allow us to stay in any game. Allen fumbled 3 times against the Texans IIRC and we still only allowed 10 points - compare that to what the Texans have done in every other game sans vs the Jags, who also field a good defense and had Ramsay at the time.

Holy crap, I was going to post something agreeing with Danger about QB stats and was looking for a QB to use as an example and I had no idea until now Mayfield had thrown 11 interceptions already. But yeah this is facts for the most part. The problem nowadays is that in the right system with the right players around him, any QB can put up good numbers on the surface (2018 Fitzpatrick, Trubisky). Or even without those circumstances, if you have a solid offensive mind for a head coach, you can be schemed to look competent. Efficiency is still important, but to me the difference nowadays between a good QB and a great QB is someone who is able to make plays out of nothing. Kirk Cousins, for example, tends to put up good numbers every year but when you watch him play, it isn't often where he's making plays out of the ordinary or where he's willing his team to wins/touchdowns if the rest of the offense isn't playing well. It's the QBs who are making those splash plays that I find the most impressive. Good numbers to look at for this would be, for example, overall TD%, 3rd down %, stuff like that. I think right now, the best three QBs when it comes to making something out of nothing are easily Mahomes, Wilson, and Watson (his pocket presence needs to improve though; Wilson had this same issue earlier in his career where his line was bad but he had a tendency of making the situation worse). Obviously Brady is still up there too until proven otherwise, but if I had to guess, I think we're finally at the point where he's no longer an elite QB and simply just really damn good. I have no idea where to rank Rodgers anymore. I feel like it's been a hot minute since we've seen him have a peak Rodgers performance. I guess the second half of the Bears game in Week 1 last year. He's only had a game with 3 or more TDs (including rushing) 3 times since the beginning of the 2018 season, and not a single one happened this year.

Biggest Disappointment: 1. Jared Goff - Easily #1 for me. I don't think it's all on him and I think he is still gonna turn out to be a good/great QB, but his performances over his last 13-16 games have been strange. I don't know if defenses have simply figured out McVay's scheme (which is kind of what I'm leaning towards - I think people were too quick to hail him as an offensive mastermind) or if he's simply having a rough go of things, but he hasn't been getting the job done. 2. Baker Mayfield - I'm not really surprised he hasn't lived up to the hype, but he's #2 by default because nobody else on that list I expected to be that good anyway. I don't think this falls on Mayfield though. Kitchens did not deserve to be made head coach and it was a foolish decision by the Browns and the reason why I was skeptical they were going to perform up to their level of talent. Not to mention the offensive line stinks. 3. Jameis Winston - Arians/Winston was a poor fit to begin with. More-so disappointed he's still making the same mistakes he made as a rookie, but it isn't surprising. 4a/b/c. Mariota/Trubisky/Allen - Nothing overly disappointing or surprising about their performances. If I needed to win one game: 1. Jared Goff - Until proven otherwise, he's easily the best QB on this list. 2. Baker Mayfield 3. Marcus Mariota - At this point, it comes down to who is the least likely to screw up the game for me. Mariota tops this list. 4. Jameis Winston? 5. Mitchell Trubisky - Tempted to put Trubisky over Winston, but Trubisky hasn't really shown he can have big games other than when he ripped the sorry Bucs pass defense up. Winston might cost me the game in a big way, but at least I know he's capable of a 3-4 TD performance too. 6. Josh Allen

Don't you only get tested like once during the offseason, unless you have already failed a test? I bet most players who smoked in college still do in the pros.

What are the new rules? And randomly throwing flags when there is "zero" evidence sounds no different to me than previous seasons.

People say officiating is bad every year. There are missed calls every year, especially in the first half of the season. I don't see what makes this year any different than the others. I'd say the year illegal contact was being called 24/7 was farrrrr worse than anything that has happened this year.

Easily Winston for me. I thought Mariota had potential, but it doesn't surprise me that he hasn't worked out (so far). Up to this offseason, I thought Winston was capable of turning it around and to be honest, I still think this. But it's looking more and more unlikely that he will never rid himself of his disastrous high turnover games. Arians was a terrible fit for him.

Good ole Kitchens

Week 6: Atlanta Falcons

Oh I definitely agree with you. LIS, we have to look at everything. I just thought it was misleading to say we’ve suddenly gotten a lot better with Allen. We were just as good, if not better, with Cam until he got injured. I think a completely healthy Cam, in theory, is the best option still. But who knows if completely healthy Cam will ever be a thing again

I mean, we were 11-5 in 2017 and 6-2 in 2018 before he got hurt. So it isn’t like we weren’t good with him. We just lost a bunch of close games at the end of last year because he was hurt. Not that you don’t have a point. We have to explore all options, but I don’t agree with the implication we’re suddenly better without a healthy Cam. We’ve always been good.