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Posts posted by jetskid007

  1. 48 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    Never said OL wasn’t important. I’ve said all offseason OL should be the biggest thing addressed. And we did a decent job of that in FA. I think we downgraded at WR and that group was already bad. So to use mayfield as a response to what I said makes no sense. Please show me when I’ve said we don’t need an OL just give Darnold weapons? Like I’ve stated the combo of a WR at 11 and OL at 48 I think helps this team more than OL at 11 and WR at 48.

    Again, I will break it down for you in chunks. 

    1. It is of my opinion that the top tackles are better players than the top receivers by in large. That has always been my stance. If you disagree with that, fine, matter of preference. But to say one day you have a higher grade on a player, than the next change it simply because of need tells me you really aren't stacking you're "board" based on talent. You're basing it purely on need... so unless you go out and grade the players quantitatively and stick with that grade, I don't really put much credit into said "board", but again, it's just my opinion versus yours, which you're entitled to, but I'm just calling you out for flip flopping based on need. 
    2. Using Mayfield as a response is a direct correlation with your opinion, which you said, "And yes I think early in a players career if you don't give them weapons to work with it can make or break them." I responded with an example in Baker Mayfield. He was given Odell Beckham and Kareem Hunt in 2019 to add with existing "significantly invested in weapons" in Jarvis Landry, David Njoku, and Nick Chubb... yet he got worse. I'm not saying that your premise is incorrect, I'm saying that it's flawed. Getting a player "top notch talent" does not mean they will end up any better or any worse than they would've been without that top notch talent. Using Mark Sanchez as an example is also flawed. The coaches ruined him, not the lack of talent. He was rushed into the lineup before he was ready, and they literally made him play with training wheels on for a few years without truly challenging him to be a better player. He was bad with weapons and it only looked worse without top notch weapons. The Jets never failed him on a weapons standpoint- they simply never developed him. That's on the coaches, not the players.
    3. I recognize you view adding to the OL as important. I have no issue with people who want a WR at 11- it's your thought process getting there. Instead of trying to justify your decision to make it sound like you have a legitimate basis- just admit that you want a star receiver that you can adore as a flashy player. Don't try and manufacture some frankenstein of an answer to make it seem like you're making an informed response based on data, facts, or logical basis. Example: just admit that you want ice cream in the morning instead of multi-vitamin because it's more exciting and tastes better than multi-vitamin, even though every factual study shows that multi-vitamin is the more healthy and sustainable option in the morning. Another example: some people like banging escorts. Those people are entitled to like to do that or prefer to do that. It's exciting, it's thrilling, hell it can be amazing, but it's not smart. The smarter option by every single measure of logic? Find a long-term girlfriend/wife because it's more sustainable than the escort. 
    4. My issue with WR at 11 is not a matter of what happens at 48. I don't think that way. I think in terms of value. The greatest value for tackles is in round 1. The greatest value for WRs/RBs are between rounds 2-4 in this draft. The greatest value for TEs is in round 5-6. The greatest value for DEs is in round 2. The greatest value for CBs is in round 1-2. For me (as well as many who are in the industry) it's all about taking advantage of value. Chances are 48 is going to be a wasteland for tackles. In fact, if we go WR 11 I'm probably rooting for the Jets to take a EDGE or CB at 48 because the value will be there, whereas the value won't be there at tackle. Reaching for a player is a mistake- period. Why take that risk when you have 3-5 top 15 prospects available at tackle at 11 with very little talent at T in rounds 2-3, versus the deepest wide receiver class ever? It makes categorically no sense. The dropoff from WR1 to WR20 isn't even close to the drop off from OT1/2/3/4/5 to OT8. 


    Here is my pitch: if you emotionally just want a WR that you can say is a 1st round pick (i.e. Drafting Metcalf at #3) that's fine! That's what you want because that's what you like and that's your preference and I can't argue with that. But to try and argue that it's logical without providing data, study, or evidence in the face of every single statistic that suggests the right move is taking a top tackle over a top wide receiver by every quantifiable measure is simply nonsensical. We all have the right not to make sense and to make poor decisions, but at least acknowledge it is my plea. 

    • Like 1
  2. 1 minute ago, .Buzz said:

    I personally would be shocked. This regime is in win now mode and they love Minshew. With all the holes, I'd expect they'd try and improve the roster around him rather than use our top asset to get someone to battle it out with him. 

    Think that is actually reliable where you heard it?

    As far as Matt Miller, from what it sounded like it was more so doing what a lot of national guys are doing which is thinking because Foles was traded we have our eyes on a rookie. I don't think that to be the case, but you can never be certain I guess.

    She’s reliable. I trust her specifically with Bama players- her first internship was in their athletic department. 

    She has a lot of clients (she’s PR) and represents a lot of noteworthy players. Engaged to a former NFL player with an advisory business. What she hear is usually from agents. She also mentioned Hurts as someone in connection with JAX. 

    • Like 1
  3. 3 hours ago, .Buzz said:

    I think the only way Herbert goes top 10 is if LAC takes him personally.

    .Buzz- I saw Jacksonville may be considering a jump for a QB. My cousin works in the industry and operates out of Miami. She went to Bama so is hoping that he ends up there, but on Thursday she has heard there’s some smoke that LAC/JAX are going to fight to jump up for him. Then I saw Matt Miller write something similar on Saturday and it got me wondering. 

    You think this is something they would do? I mean if you think about it, Caldwell jumping up for Tua could give him a longer leash, and he has the capital to do it.

    • Like 1
  4. 21 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    Sams not even arguably good yet. Never mind great. I think he will be a franchise QB “IF” we get him talent. We haven’t done that. So it’s still hard to say. And yes I think early in a players career if you don’t give them weapons to work with it can make or break them. We saw that as jets fans with Sanchez. We thought he was legit and got rid of everyone around him and watched him sink. We have to get Darnold weapons to last with him.

    Baker Mayfield

  5. 17 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    Seems like quarantine is eating away at him. Getting more and more argumentative by the day.

    I'm actually having a field day right now. I'm not being argumentative out of anger or malice, I'm just trying to point out how ridiculous some of these statements are

    I mean it in all respect and the memes are just for fun- not trying to insult anyone 

  6. 24 minutes ago, DowNY said:

    So you’re saying Tyreke Hill nor Travis Kelce would be 1st round picks knowing what we know now about them?

    Of course they will be, but it's just a faulty way of thinking. The fact is there is no such thing as re-drafts. I live and think in the real world, not a fantasy one. If you asked the Chiefs if they thought Hill and Kelce would turn out to be elite they'd say of course not, but they drafted them because they felt they would be good players. 

    On the flip side, that's like saying "Corey Davis wouldn't go in round 1 in a re-draft." No ****. 


    It all comes back to resource allocation and value. If we know the answers to the test (i.e. if we were capable of looking into the future and confidently say Henry Ruggs is going to be Tyreek Hill 2.0, while the tackles are going to turn out average) of course you're going to go with the sure thing. But last I checked we are not capable of looking into the future... yet

    • Like 4
  7. 1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

    Absolutely. Based on your logic we should draft Burrow or Tua if there. Bc yes they’d be high on my board if we needed a QB. We’ve done the BPA crap for years and look where it’s got us. It’s about time we draft smart. Draft guys we need that talent is worthy of the spot. Not risks bc we aren’t a team that can afford risk. So my board is based on what I think we need the most, talent and most likely to be a great pro. All legit reasons to create a board. You don’t like it? I don’t care!!!

    Incorrect. I'll explain it clearly for you: 

    Best Player Available = 

    (1) select the best value; (2) at a position which is in need of assets

  8. 2 minutes ago, Bianconero said:

    That's not being used as the excuse - I don't have a position. I'm simply offering history and context.

    IDC if the Jets draft a WR @ 11 or pass-catchers on Day 2, as long as as we select guys who will actually see a second contract with this team, doesn't matter

    I understand. I wasn't answering directly to you- just saying that from a logic and rationale perspective on the topic

    Any Jets fan has the right to feel worried based on our history. I absolutely do. But I also realize that is not a logical thought- it's an emotional one. 

    • Like 3
  9. 4 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

    Or you know - this draft has 3 of the best WR prospects in the last few years. We aren't asking for a receiver - we are asking for an ELITE receiver. Now consider going into the season with Crowder as the #1, an oft-injured Enunwa as #2, and stone-hands Perriman has #3, but yeah, OL is where we are most needy 9_9.


  10. 7 minutes ago, Bianconero said:

    I don't think this really says anything though. Also, FWIW I don't have a side in this discussion as I'm for either WR or OT in the first, but...

    The Chiefs have absolutely HIT on mid-round picks as evidenced above by their skill-position groups, but that's rare, and that's why they're so dominant and Super Bowl Champions. Its the fact that they HIT on mid-round picks, which also serves as evidence as to why the New York Jets have been so bad for the last decade.

    But hitting on mid-round picks is not the norm, especially for us. For the most part, if you want to select the best players, the best shot to do that is in the first round. Furthermore, Eric Fisher and Stefen Wisniewski are high round picks, but far from best at their respective positions, so I don't see the argument. The only argument here is that you need to hit on your mid-round picks and that clearly the skill position players far outweigh the offensive line in terms of skill when talking about the 2019-2020Kansas City Chiefs.

    Again, if this is being used to suggest that because it hasn't happened for the Jets means it is unlikely to happen in the future, despite wholesale changes to process, would be a fallacy. 

    Chiefs absolutely have hit and I only used them as an example because someone decided to take what I said about being a copycat league and twist it to fit their agenda. Point being not all teams have to acquire talent via round 1 for those players to be great teams. As I pointed out in a subsequent post, there are only 9 teams in the NFL who have homegrown former 1st round picks at WR. Every single year there are teams who make it deep into the playoffs, make it to the superbowl, and even win the superbowl, without a single first round pick at the receiver position.

    It's 👏🏻 an 👏🏻 overrated 👏🏻 position 👏🏻 group 👏🏻 

  11. 5 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    We have every right as Jets fans to not trust “getting these mid/late round star players.” We pretty much have 0 history of it. Never mind repeatedly draft after draft finding good players.

    Another fallacy. This one is called Historical Fallacy. Most simply put, the fallacy occurs when a person reads into a process the results that occur only because of that process.

    You have a right to not have confidence, but it's really based on emotion and not logic. The "logo" bares no weight as it relates to past results and what will happen in the future. 

    • Like 1
  12. 1 minute ago, rampantjet said:

    Andy Reid made Matt Moore look great too.  Moore is a top notch back up,  and he was less effective than Mahomes,  but is QB rating was 5 points lower than Mahomes.  

    This is it. Andy Reid is a great coach. If someone were to say, "since we don't have a great coach, we need to add top-notch playmakers to account for the deficiency" I'd probably be empathetic with that stance - even if I didn't agree with it. 

    Again, this is the deepest wide receiver class ever. You don't have to draft a WR in round 1 in order to satisfy the need in this draft, let alone ever, to be successful. In fact, 14 teams currently don't have any former 1st round WRs on their roster. There are only NINE teams with a home-grown former 1st round pick still on there roster.


    Conversely, we're the only team in the league without an OL who was drafted in the 1st and 2nd round on our line. Adding Fant, McGovern, and GVR is a nice step to building the most important position group in football outside of the quarterback position. Two of those guys were told they will be competing for a job. Let that sink in. I'm always in favor of BPA, and the Jets are likely to be in a scenario to potentially make the perfect decision: (1) draft the BPA; (2) fill a need; (3) at a building block position.

    Yet- half of the typical neurotic Jets fanbase looking for a "playmaker" 


  13. Kansas City Chiefs: Super Bowl Offensive Lineup


    • Tyreek Hill - 5th round pick 
    • Sammy Watkins - 1st round pick/free agent acquisition 
    • Mecole Hardman - 2nd round pick 
    • Demarcus Robinson - 4th round pick 


    • Travis Kelce - 3rd round pick 


    • Damien Williams - Undrafted/free agent acquisition


    • Eric Fisher - 1st round pick 
    • Stefen Wisniewski - 2nd round pick/free agent acquisition 
    • Austin Reiter - 7th round pick/free agent acquisition 
    • Laurent Duvernay-Tardif - 6th round pick 
    • Mitchell Schwartz - 2nd round pick/free agent acquisition



    And before someone says "well it works for them because of Pat Mahomes"... Hill was great before Mahomes. Kelce was great before Mahomes. Mitchell Schwartz was great before Mahomes. LDT was very good before Mahomes. Sammy Watkins has been the same player with Mahomes as he was with Jared Goff and Tyrod Taylor. I'm tired of reading this nonsense. 

    • Like 2
  14. 52 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    I’m not comparing Darnold to Mahomes. But people do keep bringing up that this is a copycat league. And the team that just won did it with a great QB and weapons. Not a great OL or defense. So if it’s a copycat league... teams will be prioritizing weapons

    Straw man fallacy. 

  15. 2 hours ago, Rockice_8 said:

    You like Jones or Jackson better?  

    I like Jones a lot but I would have to say that I think Jackson is the better prospect. I think the top 4 plus these two are worthy top 20 picks in most drafts. 

    If there's anyone I think that's being overrated due to athleticism it's Cleveland. He's a top 40 lock but I don't think he should be. Also think Isaiah Wilson is a solid 2nd round pick for whoever takes him. Niang and PTW are scary prospects IMO. Niang is going to continue dealing with injuries- I don't think his lower body is built to carry the weight he has. PTW is your ideal project who I'd definitely consider him at the top of round 3, but round 2 is a little early for my taste. Football body and LT athleticism, but started playing football late and it shows. When you couple it that he comes from Auburn- a program with a very uneven record grooming OL- I have serious concerns with him. Personally I like Matt Peart over both. 

    • Like 1
  16. 16 minutes ago, KingOfTheDot said:

    Funny cause JD asked for Tyron Smith for Jamal Adams and Dallas said no. 

    I'm not saying that Austin Jackson is Tyron Smith, but I think the point is that a lot of people get too caught up in what the media and draftniks have to say. Like sure you may see a more disciplined player in Wills on tape than you will see someone else, but is that a result of the player being more disciplined or a better coaching staff demanding a more disciplined player? Will a player maintain their discipline in the NFL when they're making multi-million dollar salary or will they be less dedicated to the craft? Will a player respond to good NFL coaching at a more rapid rate? These are all questions teams ask.

  17. 27 minutes ago, Bobby816 said:

    They very well might be. But he’s a project. He’s pretty much just a better Edoga if you ask me. Gonna need sometime to show he was worthy of that draft spot. Which for me I don’t like. Bc there will certainly be a WR there that isn’t a project. If we were a more successful franchise and have hit on draft picks year in and year out I’d say why not take the risk. But we are one of (if not the worst) drafting teams in the league. We should be drafting as close to sure things as we can until we build a winner. Especially with valuable picks

    Again I'm not trying to pin you into a corner, but are you saying he's a project because that's what you read or that's what you see? 

    I read, I look, and I hear.

    What I read? He's a project. Had one so-so game when the spotlights are on, so all of a sudden he's a bad player. Just to compare... go in the NFL General section and read opinions on Sam Darnold. There largely misinformed. People have wild opinions on who he is simply because of the New England game and what his stats say. Raw and project aren't the same thing.

    What I see? A player who is raw when it comes to using his functional strength and hand placement, but otherwise an NFL ready mirror tackle.

    What I hear? NFL is high on him because they feel his lack of play strength and technical work is easily correctable and stems from the bone marrow treatment when he donated it to his sister; he'd be a top 10 selection in any other draft.

  18. On 3/23/2020 at 7:15 PM, goldfishwars said:

    Jets 2 - Trade Down Scenario


    22. Andrew Thomas [ OT ] Georgia
    34. Jalen Reagor [ WR ] TCU
    48. Trevon Diggs [ CB ] Alabama
    79. Darrell Taylor [ EDGE ] Tennessee
    120. Lynn Bowden [ WR ] Kentucky
    122. John Simpson [ IOL ] Clemson
    158. Devin Asiasi [ TE ] UCLA
    211. Joshua Kelley [ RB ] UCLA
    253. Gage Cervenka [ IOL ] Clemson

    This would be a dream

    • Like 2
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