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Posts posted by babababa

  1. 8 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said:

    Did you ever see Archie play?  He was one of the most exciting players of his era.  He was the Mahomes of his era without the support of players and coaching that Mahomes has enjoyed.  He never held anything back trying to win, and the only thing he got in return was the snot beat out of him be defenses.  There are a lot of players who deserve to be considered for HOF.  Manning was one of them...and deserves to be there.  Do I think that Stafford deserves consideration?  Not at this point.  However, he may turn into YA Tittle after he had been traded from the 49'er's to the Giants.  In fact, Stafford right now compares statistically to Tittle before going to the Giants.  I just wish that Manning had the opportunity to play on a championship quality team.

    No I haven't seen Archie him play. His record and stats are extremely bad though. Look, I could watch his highlights, but they always tell a one-sided story. I'm sure he had bad teams around him like you said.

    So you guys like Stafford -- we'll leave it at that.

  2. 2 hours ago, swede700 said:

    I also don't think anyone ever made the declaration that Stafford was "the hero of the organization."  I only said he kept them from being 4-12 every year.  I think he's a pretty good QB...yes, he has had a lot of garbage yards and he's had his fair share of mistakes, but a lot of times, that's to compensate for a lack of running game (which he's never had his entire career) and a lack of defense. 

    It's not a coincidence that the best defense they had, they went 11-5.  He's always hovered right around that 9th-11th best QB in the league his entire career.  That's not a bad place to be in. 

    We'll have to see the running game he has in LA, but the defense has to be better than the mediocre at best he's had to deal with most of his career.      

    There's no objective measure to argue with "he kept them from being 4-12 every year". Nor is there a way to argue with Virginia Viking's feelings about Stafford keeping the Lions from drafting 1st overall every season. 

    Setting a player up to elevate an organization out of the abyss such as you have is conjecture -- and seeing through the veil -- makes him out to be a hero. You don't have to literally say he's a hero.

    I started out all of this criticizing Stafford's record. I'm not the only one to do it. Just think if the Vikings fans on this board would have been so generous to Cousins last season. 

  3. 2 hours ago, wcblack34 said:

    Who ever said that Stafford was going to the Hall of Fame? I don't think anyone sees Stafford as a Hall of Famer. I think the point VD was making is that there have been many very good QBs that just played on terrible teams. 

    Steve Young looked like a bust in Tampa and became a Hall of Famer in San Francisco.

    Jim Plunkett looked like a bust in New England and won Super Bowls in Oakland. 

    Jay Cutler...well, Jay Cutler sucked.

    Stafford will have a better cast around him, but even more importantly, he'll be working with his first competent coaching staff. 

    Well the comparison was to a HOF QB. When someone posts cryptically -- and it's hard to read sarcasm on the internet -- I interpret what I will. A does not equal B to put it bluntly. He could have put any number of other non-HOF QBs like Vinny Testaverde to compare with. Even then, at least Testaverde won some playoff games despite his abysmal 42.3% win rate. I just don't know how some of the QBs lasted as long as they did. In the case of Archie Manning it's amazing to me that he's a HOF'er just looking at his stats and losses. 

  4. 28 minutes ago, vike daddy said:

    and Archie Manning says so what...?

    Right...I don't know if I'm laughing with you for the same reason or not. 

    If Cousins makes the HOF then Stafford can too.

    If Daunte Culpepper makes the HOF then Stafford can too. If Brad Johnson makes the HOF then Stafford can too. If Randall Cunningham makes the HOF then Stafford can too.

    So many good and successful QBs like Rich Gannon, Steve McNair etc...etc...haven't made the HOF. 

    I suppose I can be proven wrong if Stafford wins in LA he would turn my opinion completely around. He's completely out of excuses though. 

  5. 8 hours ago, Virginia Viking said:

    I think you are a little tough on Stafford.  Swede700 is correct in that Stafford was the reason that the Lions didn't have the first pick in the draft every year!  

    That's a very heavy handed opinion. It's hard to argue with anyone who broadly sets up an individual to be the hero of an entire organization for over a decade. By this proclamation you're assuming the Lions were completely devoid of talent or inspirational play outside of Stafford. 

    Remember -- since the Lions drafted Stafford they've been a pass-first team so they've always set him up with receiving talent. Stafford's gaudy passing stats are largely derived from consistently getting behind teams who play soft coverage at the end of games. I've seen him do almost nothing for 3 quarters in many games and then march up the field on 3 drives when they're in scramble mode so he ends up throwing for 300-400 yards. He has the worst winning percentage of any modern QB against playoff record teams. Think about that. To me it means he isn't very good at executing the game plan. The man rarely experiences being ahead of opponents in football games.

    A lot of comparisons have been made between Cousins (.495 win percentage) and Stafford (.443 win percentage) being unable to win the big games until Cousins proved he could 2 years ago. Keep in mind Stafford has started in 60 more games than Cousins -- wow.

    Stafford has had talent across the board to work with and the defense has also had their moments. During the Schwartz era, the team had a good defense. They also had an adequate defense when Caldwell was their head coach. Yes, the Patricia era produced awful defenses -- this is true, but the set-up on offense was there. 

    In terms of being a hero, he has at points been the opposite -- just one example: He had a horrible final game against the Giants with the playoffs on the line in 2016 where he threw away their season late in the 4th quarter. Score: Lions 6 Giants 17. Caldwell was subsequently fired even though Stafford choked.

    I was ready to let this argument go. But I'm not at all being tough on Stafford. He has been given a break at several points throughout his career as his play wasn't that great at a few junctures. He's also been extended at some of those curious points. He's had some good coaches, coordinators, and help. As we all know he also had the next best thing to Randy Moss playing with him for many years. Those who continue to marvel at his heroics against teams like the Browns back when they were a joke have just as many examples of Stafford coming up empty and/or throwing the ball away like he did against Chicago on Thanksgiving 3 years ago.

    My point is that Stafford has been playing NFL football for a very long time and has nothing but empty stats to show for it.




  6. 4 hours ago, swede700 said:

    Matt Stafford has kept that team from being a 4-win team every year since 2009.  When they have a competent head coach, they were a 9-11 win team.  While certainly not an elite QB, I'd probably still take Stafford over half of the QBs starting in the league. 

    By my observations Stafford has had the propensity to do 2 things really well:

    1) 2 minute offense -- off-script. He's actually pretty great at this.

    2) Racking up garbage stats against prevent defenses. 

    He typically squanders crucial drives throughout the game until he's under intense pressure to right the ship. He doesn't beat good teams in these instances. He has a record of coming back against bad teams that are bad for a reason if he gets the ball down by a score in 4-down territory. 

    Do you recall a transcendent moment for Stafford beyond when he was 19 y/o against a bad Browns team? Neither can I -- and whether or not part of that is the Lions doesn't change the fact that the guy hasn't gotten it done at any point.

  7. 4 minutes ago, wcblack34 said:

    Probably because they've never put a competent team around him. Calvin Johnson couldn't beat another team alone. 

    When is the last time Detroit had a Top 1/3 defense?

    Every year I've heard the excuses. The buck never stops with Stafford. It's as if he's been a rookie his whole career.

  8. 39 minutes ago, swede700 said:

    That is probably the most important point.  Hell, I've disagreed with a lot of picks, even last year, I was "meh" on the Jefferson pick...obviously, it turned out much better than I expected.  I remember in 2012, the hot debate here over Kalil v. Blackmon v. Claiborne...and some people were chastised for preferring Claiborne and it was often because of how they indicated their disgust with the pick of Kalil.  In the end, we were all wrong, they all pretty much sucked.  

    Yeah. I like the draft, but it's a crapshoot. All you can do is hope that the guys become capable starters. 

    If we drafted Vera-Tucker I'd be ok. We need guards, and I think he'd work out. That said, here's hoping Ezra Cleveland is going to be a solid LT. The team must have some idea. If they're uncomfortable with him starting there we might need to trade up  a little to get Darrisaw or go all in on Orlando Brown Jr.

    Obviously I'm still wanting the pick to be Paye or Ojulari. I might even draft Ojulari. It's a toss-up for me. I'd have to interview them. 

    Would you do this deal for Orlando Brown Jr?


  9. 2 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

    Have you actually seen him play? 

    Workout numbers mean nothing when they don’t transfer to the field. Show me the burst during the game (he’s routinely the last one on the line to react to the ball being snapped). Show me the bend when the pads are on. 

    Paye is a good run defender, and knows how to use his hands. But it’s not worth spending a 1st round pick on with other edge rushers like Turner, Basham, Odeyingbo, Perkins, etc. that have similar traits/tape and can be gotten later in the draft. 

    Again, you're in the minority with your opinion. So when you say "They can do better than Paye." it's lacking any objective weight when taking into account what so many analysts have generally said and come to some consensus to. Feel free to have your opinion though. McShay and NFL.com's Peter Schrager have him mocked to the Vikings currenty (see links). The bend is evident on the field -- just youtube his highlights. According to McShay he had the 2nd highest pressure rate in the FBS. I don't know what to tell you if you try to argue against that. Here's my backup:









  10. 13 minutes ago, gopherwrestler said:

    Know, but it’s lower body and core strength to get that wait moving. Explosion scores. Means he’s an athlete. He can explode off the line. Hold his base. Typically leads to stamina for staying in a base. Just from wrestling from my experience, staying in a base is one of the toughest things to do when your tired. Guys like this can do it all day. I personally don’t care about height actually, but just the strength to get up and explode show me a lot.

    I've always seen the broad jump measurements as being a more meaningful indicator of horizontal projection.

  11. 4 hours ago, gopherwrestler said:


    Forrest Lamp should be cheaper than this if we would go after him. 

    I've seen a lot of interest (want) for Lamp around here, but he was marginally better than anything we had last year and that's not saying much. He's a better pass protector than Dozier, but a worse run blocker.

    PFF Grade 2020:

    Lamp: 49

    Dozier: 45

    I think the team should be looking more at Trai Turner who was also bad last year but has at least had some decent seasons.




  12. 1 hour ago, Virginia Viking said:

    I think they have to blow it up if they don't have a deep playoff run.  It's past time for Vikings fans to be more impatient with the team and the FO.  It may not have much impact, but it might have some.  I am tired of this team getting into the playoffs every other year...and it seemingly being okay with ownership, the FO, and with fans.

    I know this isn't saying much, but just be thankful you're not a Lions fan. I mean those fans take anything -- any little shred or comeback victory against an equally bad team on any given season and walk it for miles. Just winning a playoff game would be like winning the Super Bowl to some of these fans. And why not when you've suffered so long. How many miserable Thanksgivings have the Lions had to endure? It's so predictable in the worst way that it's laughable. 

    Maybe the Dennis Green Vikings put this seed in me, but so long as the team is making the playoffs there's a chance. Yes it stinks not making it to the Super Bowl, and that should be the expectation, but we have to still appreciate if the team is able to be competitive with the good teams. Because like I said, it could be a lot worse.

    You're right though, if after next season the team flounders, with so much time and not being able to get over the hump, it will be time for a new direction. Hopefully the team goes forward at that point, but the opposite could happen as well. So essentially I'm nervous about this season.

  13. 46 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

    Not sure I would be a fan as Hill and Udoh competing to start at RT.  Not sure either one can do it honestly.

    Yeah, I feel like the reason the Vikings drafted Cleveland was to play him at LT as they felt Reiff wasn't going to be around much longer. So I feel that the Vikings are looking at Guard but will it be Vera-Tucker? If it is will it be Vera-Tucker at 14. In my opinion you have to be a really good guard prospect to get drafted this high. AVT has position flexibility and that may be driving up his draft stock with some teams. Too bad Davis injured his knee. 

  14. 1 hour ago, vikingsrule said:

    I sure hope so. The defense desperately needs him. Hunter, Wonnum, Weatherly, Tomlinson and Pierce is a solid looking group of starters as long as Hunter is playing at an elite level.

    If Wonnum is ready then yes. I'd rather have him backing up both DE positions.

    That said we might have more explosive DEs in Paye or Ojulari waiting at 14.

    Ojulari just had his pro day and put up Khalil Mack measurables. He's up to 250. Reviewing his highlights also showed he's just as capable with his hand in the dirt rushing the passer than standing up. He shows excellent initial explosion and bend getting around the OTs -- his bread and butter.

    "Ojulari put out a 4.60 unofficial 40-yard dash while putting up 28 bench press reps. That’s just two fewer reps than what Ben Cleveland put down, though Ojulari did it with 34 and 3/8 inch arms." (see article below)

    For perspective that's Jason Pierre-Paul size and even longer than Danielle Hunter's arm length. 




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