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Dolmonite26

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  1. The running game is more reliant on blocking then the passing game...
  2. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    I suspect that Cook's trade value will be about a 3rd and since TB needs an RB it seemed to add up, but it was really only a suggestion. The real taking point is what's the interest in Howard for a ~3rd? which seems to be low I guess
  3. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Yeah, that's certainly the big caveat that maybe puts a hole in the whole thing. My thinking is that Howard offers a unique opportunity to land a player with loads of potential for pretty cheap and he is most likely a much better blocker than Smith will ever be. So it's a path way to bolstering the teams pass/run blocking and if you can get an extra 6m in cap space out of it by including Rudy in the deal so you might be able to by a guard. I mean, it's a lot of ifs and what's but I was just trying to think of way the team can address their issue on the line and Howard might provide a pathway (albeit a roundabout one) to that.
  4. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    So, like I said, OJ would likely be the starter, so I'm really sure what the concern is. But even so, is Kubiak's system pretty 1 TE centric over the years? Honestly don't know personally, but if it is I see how thats problematic in regards to Smith. So fair point I guess Again, hes the starter, so plently of use and I only brought up Cook because TB is probably in the market for one. Based on the recent trends, I'm not sure that Cook's trade value is as high as some want it to be, but I'm also probably over estimating Howards trade market. Either way the real point I'm wanting (failing) to make is, maybe try to get Howard because his trade value is probably less than his actual value. You obviously disagree with Howard being secretly good, which is fine and it certainly takes some projecting to get there. However the truth is, in his first two years he out performed his age based expectation by a lot when healthy and when given the chance. Unfortunately I can't find the numbers anymore to back this up but his touch based numbers and snap rate production was in rare company. In his third year however Arians, who has a long history of not using tight end in the passing game, relegated him to being a blocking tight end (with a 98% pass-block-win-rate according to espn). He did still however accumulate nearly 500 yards and produced a lot more after Evans went down...fwiw Again, the point is mining for a diamond, because the team is short on resources, and to my eye, Howard absolutely looks like a diamond. He's potentially gettable for cheap because he might want out and, like you said, his production is under whelming. If he can be had for less than Cook, than by all means have at it. I personally don't value Cook that high, so it seemed appropriate, but I'm likely off the mark there. Its not a hot tub though, cause you're paying for a kiddy pool and maybe getting an in ground one. And I guess I see a move like this, or other, off the beaten path ones, as a means to bolster the team through unconventional means. I mean, we all know they need help at OL, but it's going to be a difficult road to doing that. A road that should still be explored, but difficult nonetheless. So Howard popped in my head early today as a guy who can offer the team something it doesn't have right now which is dual kit tight end for cheap, who might also create a pathway to offload Rudy's 9m cap hit, which can then be used elsewhere. Maybe this particular move isn't the move that cracks it, but imo, the team is going to need to be creative this offseason if they still want to line em up again and take another swing at it in 2020
  5. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Didn't want to seem greedy 😉 Even still, imo, Cook and Rudy for Howard and 6m in cap space seems worth it. Especially since Howard is a better blocker than Rudy and with the 6m you might have a better shot at an Olineman in FA. But.... I'd take a 2nd too lol Edit: poking around the interwebs and it seems I might be over estimating Howard's trade market. So all the more reason to go after him imo, maybe its just Rudy and 4th to get him and Cook can be traded else where for additional assets.
  6. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    This is a fair point, I expect a similar jump. The problem is moving on from Rudy only saves them ~3m, but the 9m hit to keep him is a little heavy imo. Fwiw, Howard>any Vikings TE imo Any other possible player for player trades involving Cook that we can see out there? Maybe one that hits team needs a little more head on?
  7. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Injuries early in a players career don't correlate with injuries later. Two TE sets are irrelevant to the point because Howard would be the starter, but the team might have used less two TE sets because they didn't really have a lot of TEs to begin with after Rudy. Smith is promising but still young and they may have not trusted him with a lot. The team should try to trade Cook for something and this just seems like a pathway to do that. Best they can probably get for him is a 2nd rounder and I'd much rather have Howard. I only bring up Howard cause he might want out of Tampa and they need an RB, so that's really the only genesis point of this ideaer
  8. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    But since the talk seems to be mostly focused on Howard's lack of production. Let me clarify, that's kind of the point. He is big time talent who, as I said earlier, has great rate statistics (which could point to future dividends). The team would be taking a risk, but they'd be getting a player who could return value short term (a rookie TE can't do that) and long term. As I also said earlier, it might be unconventional, but he might be a TE who exploits a market inefficiency compared to most TEs. He has Gronkian ability and could offer a similar value to what Kittle is giving thr 9ers right now. I.e. can be a major contributor in the running game, but also helps the team pivot to a passing attack when needed. Would love to hear of some other players who could offer similar upside for smallish investment.
  9. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    -I didnt respond to you directly in regards to the status quo for a reason. - I consider my idea a way to shift the convo to something different. The idea's "brilliance" is of little concern to me -you ignored the rest of the post that offered further insight. -my comment was probably overly defensive. -thanks for the concern but the box of tissues helped, I think I'm over it now.
  10. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    The point is to find value. The team has limited resources right now, so how are they supposed to get an established top 5 player?... To quote your own quote, c'mon man. I literally said this was an different idea, it's inherently unconventional. Calling it dumb is just rude and offers no substance, so congrats on that, should be proud. Cook is a candidate because TB needs a running back, so it makes sense, but maybe they can do better idk. I'm glad everyone (the Vikings probably included) wants to keep their top 5 back, just like the LAR, cowboys, and falcons. I mean if Melvin Gordon has shown us anything, it's that running backs totally matter.
  11. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Lol, silly me, forgot that people will always defend the status quo....
  12. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Cook for Howard is decent, offloading Rudolphs contract is a steal. Edit: People are probably over over estimating Cooks value
  13. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    I disagree for a few reasons. Howard's "inconsistency" is mostly due to injuries his first two years and just being a tight end. It's a position that never creates big production early. However his rate statistics are other worldly and he has been a great blocker is entire pro career. This season was all because Bruce Arians doesn't know how to use tight ends and he just made him stay in and block. So the reasons I think he's a candidate to trade for is multi faceted. Primarily, his value is most certainly depreciated, so he can be had cheap. Secondly the offense does need some more fire power in addition to help on the line. Well Howard gives you both, so I disagree that he is "of no need." The team needs to explore several creative options this off-season to address their multitude of problems (assuming they aren't blowing the whole thing up). Adding bona fide talent on the O line is going to be very challenging, bc they have little cap space and spending in FA on lineman tends to not work out but plug and play draft picks are risky. However if you can add a versatile TE like Howard (provides value in running game and passing game) and are also able to flip rudys contract for Howard's you save 6M. You're now younger on offense, have a young asset that you dont need to wait on to develop, are helping to develop the teams identity. Cook is also not potential head ache waiting to happen any more, at least not for the Vikings. It's off the beaten path, but I think the team needs to look in those weeds if they want to make real short term improvements.
  14. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    You are grossly under estimating Howard, wow. He is one of those rare TEs who actually add a lot of value. In short he can exploit a market inefficiency like Kittle or Gronk before him. Judging him on volume stats is negligent.
  15. Moving On To 2020/2021.

    Been thinking about some creative options for the off-season problems and a name I haven't seen many bring up is OJ Howard. Stay with me here. It seems possible that OJ wants out of Tampa. He is waaaaay too talented to be relegated to blocking duties and if I'm the Vikings I'd press pretty hard to get him. Cook for Howard makes a lot of sense and maybe, just maybe Tampa is willing to take Rudy's contract off out hands as well. Howard and Smith would be a really fun combo for the future and compliment what team wants to do on offense really well.
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