Draft day 3 - discussion thread

[big9erfan]

13 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

Excellent post. Barring injury, people are going to have been very happy with McKinnon in 2018 (and beyond).

The thing I'm  most excited about is the possibility of more explosion plays. I believe one component of Shanny's offense and the kind of players he's getting is the possibility for game breaking plays. Hopefully McKinnon can do that whether it's on a run or on a pass..

[NinerNation21]

19 minutes ago, big9erfan said:

Hyde's 59 catches in his frist year in Shanny's offense doesn't exactly quality as not being able to contributre in the passing game.But I get what you mean. He had suspectg hands and no break away capability to turn a swing pass into a long gainer. And Shanny couldn't flex him out wide expecting him to beat a db deep. But for the same reason people criticiszed Brown for only being a good (elite in my mind) pass blocker McKinnon darn well better be able to run too. I don't want a guy who can only catches passes any more than an OT who can olnly pass block. McKinnon has carried the ball over 150 times each of the last two years and not averaged over 4 yds a carry either year and averaged 3.6 over the course of those 300+ carries. Hyde was just under 4 per carry last year and 4.6 the year before. Over the pas two years and 650+ carries he averaged just short of 4.2. I'm expecting McKInnon's average to go up considerably in Shanny's offense.  But we won't know that till the season is over.

Hyde's receiving production was a product of dump passes when no one was open. Hyde didn't run routes past the line of scrimmage with the play designed to go to him often. McKinnon has that ability to run routes and be a true pass threat. Hyde was so average or below average in everything except running inside zone. His style just doesn't fit on the team anymore. Breida came in and essentially stole carries away from him because Breida was better at running the outside zone and provided the same average to below average pass-catching ability. Breida was a cheaper version of Hyde and will provide the same value and production as Hyde. McKinnon adds a skill to the RB group that isn't currently there and hasn't been there since Roger Craig. Did we overpay for McKinnon? Hell yes. But will his production help fans to forget about overpaying? Hell yes. 

[big9erfan]

12 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Hyde's receiving production was a product of dump passes when no one was open. Hyde didn't run routes past the line of scrimmage with the play designed to go to him often. McKinnon has that ability to run routes and be a true pass threat. Hyde was so average or below average in everything except running inside zone. His style just doesn't fit on the team anymore. Breida came in and essentially stole carries away from him because Breida was better at running the outside zone and provided the same average to below average pass-catching ability. Breida was a cheaper version of Hyde and will provide the same value and production as Hyde. McKinnon adds a skill to the RB group that isn't currently there and hasn't been there since Roger Craig. Did we overpay for McKinnon? Hell yes. But will his production help fans to forget about overpaying? Hell yes. 

Yes. That everything I said, or meant to say. The only thing I added was that McKinnon's running was not very impressive the past two seasons. So if he only imporves our passing game but at the same time makes our running game worse, then I'm not thrilled. I'm not saying that's what's going to happedn.  Just pointing out that I don't want RB that is actually a WR in disguise. I want a RB that can also catch.

[Chrissooner49er]

I have had Vikes fans assure me that we will be very pleased with McKinnon.

[JIllg]

17 hours ago, NinerNation21 said:

Hyde's receiving production was a product of dump passes when no one was open. Hyde didn't run routes past the line of scrimmage with the play designed to go to him often. McKinnon has that ability to run routes and be a true pass threat. Hyde was so average or below average in everything except running inside zone. His style just doesn't fit on the team anymore. Breida came in and essentially stole carries away from him because Breida was better at running the outside zone and provided the same average to below average pass-catching ability. Breida was a cheaper version of Hyde and will provide the same value and production as Hyde. McKinnon adds a skill to the RB group that isn't currently there and hasn't been there since Roger Craig. Did we overpay for McKinnon? Hell yes. But will his production help fans to forget about overpaying? Hell yes. 

And the overpay comes with little to no cap difficulty, as almost all of it is concentrated this year when cap space isn't a scarce resource.

[J-ALL-DAY]

Juice Check and McKinnon were both overpaid by us but it allows Shanny to run his system they way he wants to. I believe because we didn't have a true receiving back last season, Shanny had to reel in the offense a bit. He mentioned he wants five receiving options on every single play regardless of the formation. One of the reasons we got McGlinchey was unlike Brown/Beadles/etc, our tackle from the right side wasn't able to get in space which hurt some of the stretch runs/pitch plays and even the bubble screens. There should be no limitations on the offensive end with the personnel we have now. 

 

[NinerNation21]

2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Juice Check and McKinnon were both overpaid by us but it allows Shanny to run his system they way he wants to. I believe because we didn't have a true receiving back last season, Shanny had to reel in the offense a bit. He mentioned he wants five receiving options on every single play regardless of the formation. One of the reasons we got McGlinchey was unlike Brown/Beadles/etc, our tackle from the right side wasn't able to get in space which hurt some of the stretch runs/pitch plays and even the bubble screens. There should be no limitations on the offensive end with the personnel we have now. 

 

Remember the days when Harbaugh and co. willingly called plays that only had ONE receiving option?? Man, those were the caveman days. 

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Remember the days when Harbaugh and co. willingly called plays that only had ONE receiving option?? Man, those were the caveman days. 

For as good as Roman was on the run game (and he is a great run game coordinator and schemer, I will give him that), he was just brutal in the passing game. The amount of times he would stack wide receivers to the same side and then essentially have them run routes in the same vicinity as one another was mind boggling. Defenses could cover 3 of our receivers with only 2 DBs. It was terrible. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

https://cms.megaphone.fm/channel/PPY2936320225?selected=LKN8793654068

Jon Ledyard starts talking about the NIners around the 9 minute mark if anyone is interested. 

[NinerNation21]

2 hours ago, Forge said:

For as good as Roman was on the run game (and he is a great run game coordinator and schemer, I will give him that), he was just brutal in the passing game. The amount of times he would stack wide receivers to the same side and then essentially have them run routes in the same vicinity as one another was mind boggling. Defenses could cover 3 of our receivers with only 2 DBs. It was terrible. 

Yeah, looking back on the Harbaugh era and comparing him to Shanahan is almost laughable. Shanahan is a much more competent and creative head coach. With Harbaugh, it felt like the niners were such a simple, meat-head type team that only knew how to win by pushing people around. With Shanahan, it feels like the niners are a much more cerebral and calculated team that wins with intelligent play development and calling. If the 2018 niners offense led by Shanahan had the 2012 niners defense, we'd win multiple Super Bowls.

[Chrissooner49er]

25 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Yeah, looking back on the Harbaugh era and comparing him to Shanahan is almost laughable. Shanahan is a much more competent and creative head coach. With Harbaugh, it felt like the niners were such a simple, meat-head type team that only knew how to win by pushing people around. With Shanahan, it feels like the niners are a much more cerebral and calculated team that wins with intelligent play development and calling. If the 2018 niners offense led by Shanahan had the 2012 niners defense, we'd win multiple Super Bowls.

 "Could've been so beautiful, could've been so right..."

[oldman9er]

4 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

 "Could've been so beautiful, could've been so right..."

"I'll never hold what could've been
On a cold and lonely night"

 

Just blame the QB. That makes it easier.  

 

[NinerNation21]

26 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

"I'll never hold what could've been
On a cold and lonely night"

 

Just blame the QB. That makes it easier.  

 

Ehh, the more we get away from the Harbaugh era, the more I blame him. When we first signed him, I really thought he was the greatest coach since Mooch. But now seeing what a real Head Coach looks like (Shanahan), I realized that Harbaugh really wasn't that great. He benefitted from the team the previous regime built and disciplined (Singletary). A QB like Jimmy G would be sorely wasted on the likes of Harbaugh and Roman. 

[mw2noobbuster]

20 minutes ago, NinerNation21 said:

Ehh, the more we get away from the Harbaugh era, the more I blame him. When we first signed him, I really thought he was the greatest coach since Mooch. But now seeing what a real Head Coach looks like (Shanahan), I realized that Harbaugh really wasn't that great. He benefitted from the team the previous regime built and disciplined (Singletary). A QB like Jimmy G would be sorely wasted on the likes of Harbaugh and Roman. 

Yeah. A lot of us looked at Harbaugh and Roman through rose-colored lenses for quite a while. I can't blame it, he made us a 13-3 team in one season. But I agree, they weren't as great when you really look at it. 

[Chrissooner49er]

12 hours ago, mw2noobbuster said:

Yeah. A lot of us looked at Harbaugh and Roman through rose-colored lenses for quite a while. I can't blame it, he made us a 13-3 team in one season. But I agree, they weren't as great when you really look at it. 

No, they weren't. But the players we had were quite talented, both sides of the ball. It made us think Jim and the offensive staff were better than they really were. The defensive staff was actually pretty good.