Draft day 3 - discussion thread

[NinerNation21]

23 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

No, they weren't. But the players we had were quite talented, both sides of the ball. It made us think Jim and the offensive staff were better than they really were. The defensive staff was actually pretty good.

 

I agree 100% with this. The defensive staff Fangio had was amazing. They not only had a great scheme with elite players, but they also found diamonds in the rough and made they good to great. The offensive staff was masked by an elite O-line, elite TE, and elite RB

[Chrissooner49er]

1 minute ago, NinerNation21 said:

I agree 100% with this. The defensive staff Fangio had was amazing. They not only had a great scheme with elite players, but they also found diamonds in the rough and made they good to great. The offensive staff was masked by an elite O-line, elite TE, and elite RB

I don't know that I would call Vernon Davis 'elite'. If he could have trained those hands of his...

And, Alex Smith was a very underrated QB. Should never have been benched/traded. But, we might not be where we are NOW (meaning having Jimmy) without those moves.

[NinerNation21]

30 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

I don't know that I would call Vernon Davis 'elite'. If he could have trained those hands of his...

And, Alex Smith was a very underrated QB. Should never have been benched/traded. But, we might not be where we are NOW (meaning having Jimmy) without those moves.

From 2011 to 2013, Vernon Davis was most certainly elite. regardless of his hands/body catching, he was a matchup nightmare and caught tons of TD's. Plus, he was regarded as a great blocker, which made him one of the best all-around TE's during that time.

 

I agree with you on Smith. I loved Alex Smith, even before the Harbaugh time. I just think Harbaugh really toned down the effectiveness of Alex and stunted Kaep's growth. If Shanahan had Alex Smith, that early in his career, we'd all be looking at him very differently. 

[JIllg]

1 hour ago, NinerNation21 said:

From 2011 to 2013, Vernon Davis was most certainly elite. regardless of his hands/body catching, he was a matchup nightmare and caught tons of TD's. Plus, he was regarded as a great blocker, which made him one of the best all-around TE's during that time.

 

I agree with you on Smith. I loved Alex Smith, even before the Harbaugh time. I just think Harbaugh really toned down the effectiveness of Alex and stunted Kaep's growth. If Shanahan had Alex Smith, that early in his career, we'd all be looking at him very differently. 

Well, and the guys and scheme Smith was working with were pretty much exactly the opposite of his skill set. Smith is a cerebral guy with limited arm strength that excels in the short to intermediate passing game by throwing in rhythm. That requires players who can seperate in short areas and have reliable hands to consistently bring down the high quantity of targets. That's kind of exactly the opposite of what the Harbaughfence needed from him and the skill players available at the time (specifically Vernon - that was kind of a rough marraige of skills).

[y2lamanaki]

5 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said:

No, they weren't. But the players we had were quite talented, both sides of the ball. It made us think Jim and the offensive staff were better than they really were. The defensive staff was actually pretty good.

 

I think it also helped that he was clearly a massive improvement over Singletary/Nolan and we downgraded massively to Tomsula/Kelly. That large contrast helped create the Harbaugh lore, because he became great by comparison. He was definitely a good coach and knew how to control/manage a game. But we've got a real good one now.

[rudyZ]

2 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

I think it also helped that he was clearly a massive improvement over Singletary/Nolan and we downgraded massively to Tomsula/Kelly. That large contrast helped create the Harbaugh lore, because he became great by comparison. He was definitely a good coach and knew how to control/manage a game. But we've got a real good one now.

I feel like Harbaugh was a shot of adrenaline right in the heart. He jolted a dormant roster into action, it beat real fast and hard for a short time, then slowed down. He brought attitude and enthusiasm to the team, and a belief they could win. He brought a winning aura with him from college. His courtship and signing brought legitimacy and confidence to the team, and he skillfully turned that into winning. The offensive gameplan was as simple as it gets, but the players executed. They worked hard and executed. It worked. Harbaugh was definitely lucky to be able to bring in Fangio and field all-time great defenses in 2011-12. But still, I give a lot of credit to Harbaugh. It just could never last.The enthusiasm just had to fade away, the attitude would eventually rub some people the wrong way. Any hiccup would shake the confidence in the winning aura. And there were hiccups. Key injuries to Pat and Justin, for instance. When that happens, and the team can't win as it did before, and it is revealed that Harbaugh can't outcoach opponents, then the legitimacy comes into question. And it did, as it had to.

I feel much better with Kyle. He came with certain question marks, but he has answered most of them. 

[Justone2]

2 hours ago, rudyZ said:

I feel like Harbaugh was a shot of adrenaline right in the heart. He jolted a dormant roster into action, it beat real fast and hard for a short time, then slowed down. He brought attitude and enthusiasm to the team, and a belief they could win. He brought a winning aura with him from college. His courtship and signing brought legitimacy and confidence to the team, and he skillfully turned that into winning. The offensive gameplan was as simple as it gets, but the players executed. They worked hard and executed. It worked. Harbaugh was definitely lucky to be able to bring in Fangio and field all-time great defenses in 2011-12. But still, I give a lot of credit to Harbaugh. It just could never last.The enthusiasm just had to fade away, the attitude would eventually rub some people the wrong way. Any hiccup would shake the confidence in the winning aura. And there were hiccups. Key injuries to Pat and Justin, for instance. When that happens, and the team can't win as it did before, and it is revealed that Harbaugh can't outcoach opponents, then the legitimacy comes into question. And it did, as it had to.

I feel much better with Kyle. He came with certain question marks, but he has answered most of them. 

Harbaugh was great for the moment he came in but it is no coincidence he so far hasn't been anywhere longer than 3 years. He is the type of guy that can come in and push everything out of the team. Just don't think you can expect him to succeed longer than like 3/4 years in the just because he is so straight lined in his approach. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

 

I didn't know where to put this but this guy breaks down every pick by the athleticism/production threshold to be a starter/pro bowler/all pro player. 

To him the best picks were Reed/James/Moore. Wasn't a fan at all of our first three picks lol. 

[big9erfan]

On 5/1/2018 at 8:14 AM, J-ALL-DAY said:

Juice Check and McKinnon were both overpaid by us but it allows Shanny to run his system they way he wants to. I believe because we didn't have a true receiving back last season, Shanny had to reel in the offense a bit. He mentioned he wants five receiving options on every single play regardless of the formation. One of the reasons we got McGlinchey was unlike Brown/Beadles/etc, our tackle from the right side wasn't able to get in space which hurt some of the stretch runs/pitch plays and even the bubble screens. There should be no limitations on the offensive end with the personnel we have now. 

 

Yep. Slowing but surely he's transforming this team. Not just the RBs, but adding the pass catching FB, he's added a bunch of new WRs this year plus Taylor last year. He's bringing a lot of change to the o-line.  And of course we signed Jimmy. I think he's close to having all the pieces he needs to run any play in his vast playbook, or to think up new ones.

Edit - just thought about this. No, he's not doing it slowly. He's doing it pretty darn quickly.

[big9erfan]

On 5/1/2018 at 10:26 AM, NinerNation21 said:

Remember the days when Harbaugh and co. willingly called plays that only had ONE receiving option?? Man, those were the caveman days. 

And continued running plays straight up the middle against 8, and often 9 man fronts thinking he was just going out-execute the other guys?

[Gridirongreat#9]

On 4/30/2018 at 1:20 PM, big9erfan said:

Not really. Sherman ran a 4.56 at the combine and in the 4.4s at his pro day. Mcfadden ran a 4.67 at the combine. That was the faster of his two times. His other was a 4.76. If that repressents his true speed the chances of him being a succeessful NFL CB are pretty close to zero.Probably worth taking a shot at as a UDFA. But no amount of getting physcial at the LOS or tehnique will make up for 4.7 speed.  I don't know if there any CBs in the NFl that ran best of 4.67 at the combine and didn't crack 4.75 in their other run.

If you have a corner that can jam and knock a receiver off his route that gives the rush more time to get to the qb. It's all about the front and the back working together. Since we didn't address the pass rush you might be right about him not sticking around. Fingers crossed he plays faster than he times. 

[Chrissooner49er]

Fourth and 9 evaluated our 9ers draft....if some of the things in here are correct, Street may be seen as our future Leo. DeSimone calls him a 'mutant'--in a good way.

https://www.fourthandnine.co/single-post/2018/05/02/49ers-2018-Post-Draft-Guide-Impressions-questions-superlatives-and-grade

Definitely worth the read.

[y2lamanaki]

52 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Fourth and 9 evaluated our 9ers draft....if some of the things in here are correct, Street may be seen as our future Leo. DeSimone calls him a 'mutant'--in a good way.

https://www.fourthandnine.co/single-post/2018/05/02/49ers-2018-Post-Draft-Guide-Impressions-questions-superlatives-and-grade

Definitely worth the read.

Definitely a great read. It's hard to disagree with much in the article other than Street as an EDGE. I don't doubt the team will try him there (they tried both Armstead and Thomas), but like those two, I think he's ultimately going to be better suited at Big End. But either way - thanks for sharing!

[big9erfan]

Kind of a homer read. He seems to love all our picks. Still it's exciting to think about the potential all of these guys have. If they turn out as well as last year's group of guys we will have upgraded our team both immediately, and in the long run. McGlinchey is a sure-fire starter. Warner has a chance to work his way into a starting role. Pettis should see the field a lot. If we get some nice contribution out of Moore and/ore Reed that would be icing on the cake. After those guys I don't expect much so anything will be a pleasant surprise.Janes us the one guy I'm pinning my hopes on to be surprisingly good. I'm not sure how long before he sees the field, but I think he's just go a ton of potential.

[Forge]

4 hours ago, y2lamanaki said:

Definitely a great read. It's hard to disagree with much in the article other than Street as an EDGE. I don't doubt the team will try him there (they tried both Armstead and Thomas), but like those two, I think he's ultimately going to be better suited at Big End. But either way - thanks for sharing!

I have the same thought. I think he's a big end.