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Woz

5.26 (163) Washington Redskins select Tim Settle, DT, Virginia Tech

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45 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

Brice Allen is extremely ethical.  Ask the cheerleaders.

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Posted (edited)

Whoever Brice Allen is, I’m sure he’s hurt. Lol xD

Edited by turtle28

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Woz said:

But even excluding the semantics here ... the Redskins still missed a golden opportunity.

Let's look at it this way, which is better:

  • Not taking the deal
    • Da'Ron Payne
    • Derrius Guice
    • Geron Christian
  • Take the deal (let's assume they don't trade back up from 27, but do trade back from 44)
    • Will Hernandez
    • Derrius Guice
    • Derrick Nnadi / Justin Jones / Harrison Phillips
    • pick 147 (which Green Bay later traded to Carolina who traded to LA Rams which became) Micah Kiser
    • 2019 1st round pick from New Orleans

I like Payne. I think he looks to be a good addition. However, I also see that they got scared and took the easy path instead of the better move for the long term of the franchise.

And the later deal has worked so many times for the Redskins and other teams right?

2011 great trade down! We got Kerrigan and then what else out of that? We passed on Watt & Quinn.

I used to love the trade down, I used to blow my wad over having like 10 plus picks, but it’s clear that having a top player and the best starter you can in round 1 of the draft is more important.

Not only can we look at the 08 & 2011 draft as examples, but also the Browns who traded down in 2011 and 2016 passing on Julio Jones and Wentz for more picks. Then, there is the Rams who traded down in 2012 again after trading out bc they weren’t going to take RG3, when the traded down from 6 they passed on Luke Kuechley! Great job!

I’m glad we stayed put and took the player we had wanted the most and who best fit our defense instead of doing what you always complain about and not getting a NT which makes us play a 3-tech or 5-tech out of position.

Edited by turtle28

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Too bad we won’t know until they do the 2018 America’s Game on NFLN for your super bowl champion Washington Redskins

Bruce -“ya know we had an offer to trade back and not take Payne. Could you imagine passing on a guy that won Rookie of the year, defensive player of the year and Super Bowl MVP all in one season for what, a pick? We probably wouldn’t have been able to draft Guice who ran for 2,000 yards and won MVP either. When I bolted for Oakland I knew I did the right thing in taking Payne”

aaah that’s some me as a 12 year old kinda wishful thinking. 

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49 minutes ago, turtle28 said:

2011 great trade down! We got Kerrigan and then what else out of that? We passed on Watt & Quinn.

Which as we have discussed before is a bit of a red herring. No one projected J.J. Watt to become J.J. Watt. While a first round prospect, there was no inkling he was projected to be the guy he became; that was Robert Quinn (*). Quinn was the Redskins' target, and I suspect they did the exact same thing that they did in this past draft: project who might take their target between where they were and where they were trading to.

Only five teams to consider: Houston (a risk, obviously took Watt), Minnesota (needed a QB), Detroit (a risk, took Nick Fairley), St. Louis, and Miami.

What they didn't project is that the Rams would spend another 1st rounder on a pass rushing defensive end after spending the #2 overall pick three years earlier on Chris Long.

It sucks, but it happens. There's risk involved. This year, the Redskins looked at the 14 teams between 44 and 59 and said, "we can trade down and still get our guy." So they executed the trade, and there you are.

Learn from the mistakes of the past, but don't let them control you.

Also, keep in mind that, even with all the gnashing of teeth here, the Redskins still ended up with a three time Pro Bowler (which is one more than Robert Quinn has been invited to, but one less than Watt has been to). So, it worked out. Now, the rest of that draft was a disaster with only Kerrigan and Niles Paul making it to a second contract with the Redskins. But that is not a reason not to make the deal in the moment. Sure, we can all go back and say "oh, we totally would have picked Watt" knowing what we know now. That's 20/20 hindsight talk.

 

 

 

(*) Some articles from 2011:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e75a7b/article/on-ability-alone-these-are-top-prospects-of-2011-nfl-draft (Gil Brandt has Watt as a tier 2 prospect, Quinn was tier 1; Kerrigan was tier 3)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2011DE.php (has Watt 3rd behind Quinn and Aldon Smith for DEs, as a top 18 pick; Kerrigan was 4th as a top 20)
https://www.si.com/nfl/2011/02/16/2011-nfl-draft-prospects (Watt is 15th, Quinn is 10th, Kerrigan is 19th)

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Woz said:

Which as we have discussed before is a bit of a red herring. No one projected J.J. Watt to become J.J. Watt. While a first round prospect, there was no inkling he was projected to be the guy he became; that was Robert Quinn (*). Quinn was the Redskins' target, and I suspect they did the exact same thing that they did in this past draft: project who might take their target between where they were and where they were trading to.

Only five teams to consider: Houston (a risk, obviously took Watt), Minnesota (needed a QB), Detroit (a risk, took Nick Fairley), St. Louis, and Miami.

What they didn't project is that the Rams would spend another 1st rounder on a pass rushing defensive end after spending the #2 overall pick three years earlier on Chris Long.

It sucks, but it happens. There's risk involved. This year, the Redskins looked at the 14 teams between 44 and 59 and said, "we can trade down and still get our guy." So they executed the trade, and there you are.

Learn from the mistakes of the past, but don't let them control you.

Also, keep in mind that, even with all the gnashing of teeth here, the Redskins still ended up with a three time Pro Bowler (which is one more than Robert Quinn has been invited to, but one less than Watt has been to). So, it worked out. Now, the rest of that draft was a disaster with only Kerrigan and Niles Paul making it to a second contract with the Redskins. But that is not a reason not to make the deal in the moment. Sure, we can all go back and say "oh, we totally would have picked Watt" knowing what we know now. That's 20/20 hindsight talk.

 

 

 

(*) Some articles from 2011:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81e75a7b/article/on-ability-alone-these-are-top-prospects-of-2011-nfl-draft (Gil Brandt has Watt as a tier 2 prospect, Quinn was tier 1; Kerrigan was tier 3)
http://walterfootball.com/draft2011DE.php (has Watt 3rd behind Quinn and Aldon Smith for DEs, as a top 18 pick; Kerrigan was 4th as a top 20)
https://www.si.com/nfl/2011/02/16/2011-nfl-draft-prospects (Watt is 15th, Quinn is 10th, Kerrigan is 19th)

I don’t think we were going to take Watt. I admit, I had him and Kerrigan rated about the same as a guy I’d take around 20. I was shocked the Texans took him that high, but kudos to them. 

You're right about Shanahan probably thinking the Rams had just taken Long so they likely won’t take Quinn and that they probably had Kerrigan, and Quinn rated similarly especially considering Quinn’s back issue. I think they were all probably rated similarly, but if Quinn is the guy they liked the most they should’ve taken him. Quinn had 19 sacks a few years ago, Donald dipped into his stats though since the Rams drafted him. 

By the way I do love Ryan but we did pass on better prospects when we traded down.

 

Edited by turtle28

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