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NFL Draft Thread Part 2 : Post-Draft Talk (UDFA Talk here as well)


steelcurtain29

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When I look at what they're doing with the safeties, I can't help but wonder if they aren't falling into the same sort of trap they used to on the OL. They like these swiss army knife guys who do a little of everything, but who aren't particularly great at any one thing. I highly doubt the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Edmunds. They didn't even try to claim that they did. And they usually love to crow about how they stood pat and one of their top guys fell to them. They routinely talk about it.

So I hear how Edmunds played all over. He was versatile (a bit like the 5th round FB/RB/whatever the hell he is) and used all over. OK, swell. Was he really great at any of the things he was asked to do? Mediocre tackler (you're hoping its his shoulder),  and a mediocre deep safety who frequently gave up big plays and who just looks uncomfortable with his back to the ball. The Steelers still guys who can play deep, last I checked. I'm not even sure they have one guy who really fits the bill. Sean Davis dropped almost as many coverages as Golden when he played. Now they're putting more on his shoulders at FS where he''s going to have to make the calls and get other people lined up. I mean, for a team that got beat deep left and right in the tailend of the year...

It's like the braintrust here thinks Earl Thomas would be a liability because he only plays deep safety. They could be in a jungle and I think Tomlin would be trying to carve the bush up with his swiss army knife rather than use a damn machete. He's fascinated with flexibility and it's not exactly producing sterling results. The defense was a lot better when it was just guys like James Harrison doing what they do best. The best players on defense aren't all that versatile. Cameron Heyward is just a good 5 tech. Haden is just a pretty good CB.

And for all this talk about subpackage football, they were bounced from the playoffs in large part because the Jaguars went the opposite direction as most offenses and just pounded them into submission. They really need a lot from Bostic. And the Patriots? I mean, there's still no cure for Gronk here. Edmunds aint covering him.

The guy is athletic and young. But they don't have a great track record of coaching these secondary guys up and they used a first on him. It took Munchack to fix the OL. Give it a clear plan and develop the talent. Do they have that in the secondary or anywhere on defense right now?

 

13 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Having said that all of the above, when I look at this draft, I can't help but feel the class is actually much weaker than it was ever hyped up to be.  This draft class (league wide) could, imo, end up being one of the worst of all time.

 

This draft was definitely light on talent in my view and it's going to show.

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5 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

The guy is athletic and young. But they don't have a great track record of coaching these secondary guys up and they used a first on him. It took Munchack to fix the OL. Give it a clear plan and develop the talent. Do they have that in the secondary or anywhere on defense right now?

I agree, they need Much quality coaching for these DB's , and maybe it happens.  No answer for gronk? No kidding there, and getting ran over by the Jags was no kidding either.  They need players fro both teams IMO and don't have that up front (Jags) or in the secondary (Pats). This is where UFA could help if we had the cap space .  Far fetched, but an example is Sherman to cover Gronk, maybe Revis if, ok I won't go there . Who can cover Gronk anyways? Get the pressure up front is the one way that could help.

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6 hours ago, 3rivers said:

this is a detailed analysis, different than just stats. I know a lot of this is "who you play" but the productivity and this analysis is legit.  Will he make the team over Adams or will they keep 5 OLB again?

PS if he is lucky.  He could hire James Harrison as his personal life coach to give him a better chance.

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8 hours ago, 3rivers said:

I agree, they need Much quality coaching for these DB's , and maybe it happens.  No answer for gronk? No kidding there, and getting ran over by the Jags was no kidding either.  They need players fro both teams IMO and don't have that up front (Jags) or in the secondary (Pats). This is where UFA could help if we had the cap space .  Far fetched, but an example is Sherman to cover Gronk, maybe Revis if, ok I won't go there . Who can cover Gronk anyways? Get the pressure up front is the one way that could help.

So why assign anyone to try to cover him one on one? We don't have the personnel for it. Most no one does.  How do most teams fare at covering AB one on one?  You have to design help with elite WR's and TE's.  This is becoming more creative in our schemes. Most DB's are fast/quick/athletic enough to hang with Gronk within 10 yards, but beyond that you run into having problems.  Even one on one within that tight window is hard because Gronk is such a big body and incredibly strong and athletic himself.  Teams have had success (albeit limited) with Gronk double teaming him.

That is how the Patriots typically got you and how we got most teams with AB, Bryant, Ju Ju, Bell and McDonald; "Pick your poison." If you double Gronk, typically Brandon Cooks would burn you outside or one of the backs underneath.  You have to decide to not let Gronk beat you and hope that you can have more success against the other players. Having a 220 lb/athletic in the box safety helps against the run and if you want to double TE's.

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These guys I like their individual abilities on the field to compete for PS & maybe even a roster spot:

Matthew Thomas LB 6’3 235 4.5

Jeremy Taylor S/Rover 5’11 190 4.5

Trey Johnson CB 5’11 184 4.38

Ola Adeniyi OLB 6’1 250 4.87

 

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 I don't know if anyone else saw the comments made by Big Ben, but they sort of annoy me and maybe they shouldn't but they do. He talks about how the Mason Rudolph era won't begin for at least 3 to 5 years if he is their guy, because he plans on playing for at least that long. Now don't get me wrong it's not like I expected him to say yeah he will take over for me next year because I will be done or something like that but I think we've all been watching the same Ben Roethlisberger and I think that it is at least fair to argue that his Fallout will come before Tom Brady's and that he has shown signs of decline already albeit still playing at a very high level. I think that in two or three seasons if Mason Rudolph is ready we may very well see an Aaron Rodgers Brett Favre type of change that isn't exactly friendly.

 

 I don't feel that you can hold off the future of the franchise for Ben Roethlisberger is Ben Roethlisberger he's unwilling to admit when his career should be over. Now that's not to say that he shouldn't be allowed to decide for himself when to retire but my point is if there comes a time where he is hurting the team more than helping them while Mason Rudolph is actually ready to play they need to pull the plug on Ben Roethlisberger regardless of how Ben Roethlisberger feels about it.

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I agree a lot more with ck’s sentiments than our seemingly contrarian defensive strategy. 

 

Think about what the Steelers are saying and doing - if they believe that the best tacklers of all time at the linebacker position might not be able to play 3 downs in today’s nfl, I’m calling that utter bs! And i’m as contrarian as just about any body I know , and can’t go that far. Same thing with safeties and the earl Thomas example.

I also don’t agree with the concept of covering tight ends like they do, what they seem to do makes it a ton harder. Those guys can’t run Unimpeded seam routes or they will get open, and do so fast versus zones. They need to be chucked...and pretty damn hard near the los. Moreover, outside pressure becomes a problem against 2 tight end sets and  so does a 3-4's run defense against that damn zbs. Might as well chuck them there with your olb’s, because they aren't getting close to any Qb's( before the better qbs zing it to their tight ends)! Goodness!

So this entire sub package football is ok I guess, but the process of building from the back end, (lbs and secondary first)seems backwards from the way it should evolve. Front seven dudes first! And that means probably hybrid or 4-3 guys being exceptional! Because the O doesn’t really have to let you sub in your Swiss Army knives. Oh well I guess. Maybe they are slowly trying to do this to point where we can’t quite see it.  

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1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

I don't know if anyone else saw the comments made by Big Ben, but they sort of annoy me and maybe they shouldn't but they do. He talks about how the Mason Rudolph era won't begin for at least 3 to 5 years if he is their guy, because he plans on playing for at least that long.

Didn't see the comments, but if he said that, then clearly the pick lit a fire under him.  Good.  I hope he doubles down on his career/legacy.  Maybe he'll come in to camp in top shape for once.  

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On 4/29/2018 at 9:41 PM, CKSteeler said:

This draft was definitely light on talent in my view and it's going to show.

It seems incredible that the draft could be light on talent in this day and age.  130 College football programs and they can't come up with 200 good players??  Sounds ridiculous, but it does seem like the NFL-quality talent across a number of positions was just so-so.  (linebacker in particular)

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Roethlsiberger spoke on the subject of Rudolph today. Said that he can succeed him, but he better patient because he plans for it to take a while. There is definite attitude behind the statement on his part.

I wonder how much the Roethlisberger contract extension talk factored into any of this.

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8 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

Roethlsiberger spoke on the subject of Rudolph today. Said that he can succeed him, but he better patient because he plans for it to take a while. There is definite attitude behind the statement on his part.

I wonder how much the Roethlisberger contract extension talk factored into any of this.

suppose 4 years and 100M, maybe that also factors into it. I thought he was going to retire by the way he was on the sidelines in the jags game, but what has happened :o

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12 hours ago, CKSteeler said:

Roethlsiberger spoke on the subject of Rudolph today. Said that he can succeed him, but he better patient because he plans for it to take a while. There is definite attitude behind the statement on his part.

I wonder how much the Roethlisberger contract extension talk factored into any of this.

If drafting Rudolph lights a fire under Big Ben than that is the best pick of the draft.

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I really think that the Steelers would be foolish to give Ben Roethlisberger an extension which is why I expect it to happen. If you truly believe Rudolph is the guy that will replace Ben Roethlisberger and he shows signs of that early on, then you should not tie big money up into a guy that might result in major dead money. I don't mean to sound ungrateful to Ben Roethlisberger but you've got to leave yourself an out. There has to be a plan in place should Rudolph be the guy they believe they drafted to make the change and limit the  negative financial impact of your franchise.

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