battle2heaven Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I'd like to continue the discussion of Tyler Conklin. He compares pretty favorably to Trey Burton as a move tight end. Burton: height 6021 weight 224 40 4.62 vert 33 inches broad 09'05" SS 4.31 3cone 7.01 Conklin height 6030 weight 254 40 4.80 vert 38 inches broad 10'00" SS 4.23 3cone 7.13 So comparing them, Burton is faster, but ran it at 30 pounds lighter. Conklin has better explosion and their agility numbers look to be a wash. I definitely believe this pick has the DeFlippo blessing and with the way he utilizes the TE, Conklin should mesh well with Morgan and Rudolph. Blake Bell is a JAG; not really anything special to where we should avoid selecting a move TE because of his "potential" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perrynoid Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 19 hours ago, Klomp said: Different coaches see different ways of building teams. Some believe that it all starts in the trenches. Others believe that it starts on the perimeter. Zimmer clearly believes that you can never have too many really good DBs. I'd be more worried about this strategy if he wasn't successful in building a good defense, but he been successful has so I choose to give him a bit more leeway in how he decides to build the team. That's just it: we need to build a team, not just one position. Most of us advocating increased attention to the OL are not expecting all our draft resources being devoted to it, just more than have been. Hernandez is a beast, and would have been a plug-in starter at RG. This is even more important due to the fact that (arguably) our best OL just retired, making an average OL even poorer. What many of us dislike is the extremely disproportionate use of draft resources on one position (CB, 3 first round picks and a second round pick). IOW, 2 positions have that level of investment, whereas the 5 positions on the OL don't even merit ONE first round pick? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Would Hernandez have been a plug in starter? He doesn't seem like he'd be a great fit in this scheme. Over the past two years the Vikings have: Signed Reiff Signed Remmers Signed Josh Andrews Signed Tom Compton Drafted Elflein in the 3rd Drafted O'neill in the 2nd Drafted Isadora in the 6th Drafted Gossett in the 6th So singed starters, signed depth guys, drafted guys that they expect to be starters, and drafted depth players. I'm not sure how people are still suggesting that they aren't addressing the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Talk to me in 3 years and I'll grade this draft. I have zero idea on well any of these players will perform. I think Hughes will do well, but anyone else? Not a clue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 19 minutes ago, perrynoid said: That's just it: we need to build a team, not just one position. Most of us advocating increased attention to the OL are not expecting all our draft resources being devoted to it, just more than have been. Hernandez is a beast, and would have been a plug-in starter at RG. This is even more important due to the fact that (arguably) our best OL just retired, making an average OL even poorer. What many of us dislike is the extremely disproportionate use of draft resources on one position (CB, 3 first round picks and a second round pick). IOW, 2 positions have that level of investment, whereas the 5 positions on the OL don't even merit ONE first round pick? Hernandez would have been a terrible pick. He wouldn't have been a plug-in starter on this offensive line. He would have been a bust because his strengths do not fit the Vikings' offensive line scheme, which relies more on athleticism than sheer power. That's one thing I do know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 The Vikings went into the draft with a need of varying degrees at OG, OT, CB, DE, DT, TE, WR, ans RB. By the end of Saturday, the team added at least one CB, OT, DT, TE, PK, DE, OG, LB, WR, RB. They may not have been the names that many of us were championing, but they filled the positions that we were all advocating. Until we see how these players develop and play, I’d say they did a good job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 6 hours ago, rpmwr19 said: I don’t understand why he would be TE3 or 4 either. So, I guess I don’t understand either side of the argument. Blake Bell is just a guy who takes up a roster spot, nothing special. David Morgan is more of a true, in-line Y, so he and Conklin play the same position in name only. Conklin is more of a J, and Rudolph is the combination player who can play in-line and split. The Eagles, under DeFillipo has three TEs with at least ten catches last year (and a touchdown). If I were to slot the guys on our roster into those slots... Kyle Rudolph - Zach Ertz (combo player that can move around) Tyler Conklin - Trey Burton (we did try to sign Burton, J-TE, more of a pure receiving threat) David Morgan - Brent Celek (true in-line Y) EAGLES STATS AT THOSE POSTIONS Combo: 74-824-8 J: 23-248-5 Y: 13-130-1 —— we know that DeFillipo likes multiple TE sets and that the J-TE is well utilized (and something we don’t have on roster), we know that Kirk Cousins passer rating goes up with multiple TEs on the field, and tight ends are among the most versatile contributors on special teams (both blocking and cover units). How is that not worth a 5th round pick when that’s where the player picked was expected to go? It is not as simple as stacking them 1, 2, 3, and 4 with a position as multifaceted as Tight End. We didn’t select a third or fourth tight end, we selected our potential #1 J-TE after failing to sign one in free agency. That is a great rebuttal. I appreciate the effort you are willing to put in to help inform me and others. TE is not a position where I am aware of a lot of these nuances. I concede in the question of whether he is TE3 or lower. The team very well may expect right now that he'll be TE2 this year. Although I doubt they would put that on an official depth chart if they had to publish one right now. More to the point, it doesn't matter as you explained very well that stacking them up TE1, TE2, TE3 is somewhat silly. Conklin should be #2 at the role the team has in mind for him and it doesn't matter much how he would be ranked amongst the TEs that they have other roles for. For now I stand by my guess of why he Boda thinks Conklin was drafted too early. However, as soon as Bode speaks on that topic my guess becomes 100% meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 1 hour ago, disaacs said: Hernandez would have been a terrible pick. He wouldn't have been a plug-in starter on this offensive line. He would have been a bust because his strengths do not fit the Vikings' offensive line scheme, which relies more on athleticism than sheer power. That's one thing I do know. Are you basing this on? How extensively have you evaluated him as a player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 Hernandez’s RAS score says otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 deleted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 21 minutes ago, VikeManDan said: Hernandez’s RAS score says otherwise. Running around in shorts =/= running around in pads. There’s no secret that Hernandez did not look very good moving around in college, and struggled with zone concepts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 4 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: Running around in shorts =/= running around in pads. I understand that. 5 minutes ago, SemperFeist said: There’s no secret that Hernandez did not look very good moving around in college, and struggled with zone concepts. I've seen the opposite said, I'll try and find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 I think you’ll be hard pressed to find any scouting reports thalisted a zone blocking scheme as a good fit for Hernandez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VikeManDan Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 With Shurmur now the head coach won't he be running more of a zone-scheme with the Giants? Check this blurb out I saw on twitter: New York Giants – Round 2, Pick 34: Will Hernandez, OG, UTEP This is an excellent fit and value for the Giants, selecting my #4 overall OL and #3 OG in the draft to give a much-needed boost to a weak OL. Hernandez is a true guard with a massive frame and build, elite play strength, and underrated athletic ability. He fits nicely in Pat Shurmur’s multiple blocking schemes that will likely see a diverse set of concepts such as power, inside/outside zone, pulls, and plenty of screens. Hernandez is also very good in pass-protection utilizing good strike timing and quick processing to recognize blitzes and stunts. He can potentially play RG, however, he is better than current LG Patrick Omameh and should stay at the spot he started 49 straight games at in college. This pick should go a long way in helping the offense function, providing #2 overall pick Saquon Barkley with much-needed daylight as a runner and QB Eli Manning with an enforcer in pass-protection. Source: https://www.ndtscouting.com/thorn-evaluating-the-ol-fits-in-rounds-2-3/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klomp Posted April 30, 2018 Share Posted April 30, 2018 3 hours ago, SemperFeist said: They may not have been the names that many of us were championing, but they filled the positions that we were all advocating. Doesn't matter. I didn't get what I wanted, so I'm not happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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