Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 53 minutes ago, packfanfb said: What are you going to argue next, that Reggie Gilbert > Shane Ray? How about Fackrell too? Pretend that second part doesn't exist. Does he not have a point before that? Von and talib and Harris. That doesn't help? Maybe, just MAYBE he's not an 8 sack guy without that. Is that crazy? Of course not. But he's a new possible piece so he's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Obviously you do it with the intent on extending him. Again, he's 24 years old, not 35. Stated another way....Imagine that a 24-25 year old Shane Ray is your 2019 3rd round draft pick. Would a single person here argue with that pick? A. He's not going to just extend because you want him to. B. He's not going to extend until he plays. C. Imagine he plays really well and wants to test the market. Well you got a rental and your pick back. That's the middle option. There's also he flops and you get to keep him. But you portray it as there's only one, he's extended because he's good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 48 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Who do you want, anyone? Or is this roster ready in your mind? I've consistently preached about one player up until now, Dez Bryant. I was all around the Breeland train, but Alexander and Jackson alleviate that hole at CB so no need for Breeland. If Shane Ray can be had for a 3rd rd pick, add his name to the list. If not him, add a Barwin (even though Barwin at 31-32 years old isn't the player Ray is). Basically, I want a vet WR and another EDGE guy. Given the holes on the roster, I'd say those desires are pretty logical and reasonable. So who do you want? I'd take Ray for a 4th. Dez for 5 or 6. It's not that I don't want anyone. I just want you to see two sides to the coin, because you never do. I don't want barwin though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, NormSizedMidget said: Pretend that second part doesn't exist. Does he not have a point before that? Von and talib and Harris. That doesn't help? Maybe, just MAYBE he's not an 8 sack guy without that. Is that crazy? Of course not. But he's a new possible piece so he's great. He also had 45 pressures in 2016. In comparison, Perry (who had 11 sacks and got a big new deal thereafter) I believe had 36 and Matthews I think had 28. I'm not trying to trick you here, Shane Ray is a good player and would help our team's quest for a SB ring starting tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 43 minutes ago, packfanfb said: This is only worth a damn if the draft pick is a good player. If you draft Kyler Fackrell in the 3rd round, you could have him cheap for 15 years and it would be a waste. See you always look at the picks as probable busts and outside guys as obvious hits. This is what I'm getting at Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 1 minute ago, packfanfb said: He also had 45 pressures in 2016. In comparison, Perry (who had 11 sacks and got a big new deal thereafter) I believe had 36 and Matthews I think had 28. I'm not trying to trick you here, Shane Ray is a good player and would help our team's quest for a SB ring starting tomorrow. I guess I don't disagree. I just think you never look at the cons too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatJerkDave Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 55 minutes ago, packfanfb said: So who do you want? I am content with the receivers. Adams, Cobb, and Graham are going to get a lot of targets. Kendricks and Montgomery will probably get a fair number of passes as well. The "#2 WR," will likely be the fourth to sixth option in the passing game. If they get more opportunity than that, they earned the reps or someone got an injury. I would have liked a TE in the draft to develop. We drafted some good talent this year, Clark is also quite a specimen, and Allison (whom I must be the highest on) has shown that he can handle being the 4th option. I think that adding a pass rusher to the mix is a good idea. One of Robert Ayers, Ahmad Brooks, Tamba Hali, or Elvis Dumerville on a 1-2 year contract would make me content (probably my preferred order). I think they can rotate with the young players at back-up, and I would have less hesitation giving them the 4 or so starts they will have when Clay and Perry miss some time. I don't have much faith in any of the current back-ups to become more than guys that play a few series per game when the starters need a breather. I also kind of want Jahri Evans back for one more year. I think I would sign him if the young group looks like it won't cut it after camp gets going. I am interested to see the improvement to year 2 by McCray, Pankey, Patrick, and Amicia as well as what Madison has to offer. Ideally, one or more of these kids is ready to be a starter. If we have to sign Evans now or lose him, I would sign him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBitzMan Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, packfanfb said: He also had 45 pressures in 2016. In comparison, Perry (who had 11 sacks and got a big new deal thereafter) I believe had 36 and Matthews I think had 28. I'm not trying to trick you here, Shane Ray is a good player and would help our team's quest for a SB ring starting tomorrow. It's a lot easier for an EDGE to get pressure when WRs are actually covered and not given free releases off the line. I am not saying Ray isn't good or doesn't have potential but giving up a high round pick is not something I would do, but that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Just now, NormSizedMidget said: See you always look at the picks as probable busts and outside guys as obvious hits. This is what I'm getting at Not at all. It's about risk. I've seen what Shane Ray can do so he's a less riskier proposition than a draft pick, that's obvious and true for any vet vs. draft pick comparison. I don't know what next year's 3rd round pick will do. Could the pick > Ray, sure. But you look at the probabilities of that happening. I think it is a very reasonable assumption that the chances of getting a guy in the 3rd who is "less than" Ray is higher than the chances of getting someone who is "more than" Ray. Given Ray's age, which is a bonus, it only sweetens the deal. Then you consider the money part of it. It is worth it to get a player in the 3rd round who is less than Ray but several million dollars cheaper? How close of a comparison does it have to be? Does he have to be at least close to the same player for the money difference to be worth it or is any player, no matter how ****ty he is a better deal than Ray because he costs less money? Then you also consider the high likelihood that Matthews won't be back after this year. Do you want to start from scratch with Perry and rookie at EDGE or would having a guy like Ray, who even if he resigned wouldn't cost what Matthews costs, be valuable to have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 The crap part (to me) is if he gets traded and next year he has 3 sacks. Nobody remembers this ever was discussed, especially the people who wanted him bad. And we're just talking about the next no brainer Shane Ray type deal that you have to be an idiot not to do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 12 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: I guess I don't disagree. I just think you never look at the cons too I would say I'm just more willing to accept the cons than you are. I've never once complained about the Bennett debacle because I supported the decision when it was made and I accept the fact that it totally bombed. But at least we tried to add a significant player who we reasonably expected to help us a lot and upgrade the TE position. Didn't work out and we got stuck with $4 million in dead cap because of it. Same thing could happen with Dez, for example, but I'd sign him. A lot of risk there, no doubt, but it's worth it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said: The crap part (to me) is if he gets traded and next year he has 3 sacks. Nobody remembers this ever was discussed, especially the people who wanted him bad. And we're just talking about the next no brainer Shane Ray type deal that you have to be an idiot not to do Seeing as how I cannot remember in my life time the last time we traded a mid-round pick for a player, this could be the test run and maybe it proves one of us right in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Seeing as how I cannot remember in my life time the last time we traded a mid-round pick for a player, this could be the test run and maybe it proves one of us right in the short term. Ryan Grant? I'm guessing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, Golfman said: Ryan Grant? I'm guessing here. A 6th isn’t exactly a mid round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted May 2, 2018 Share Posted May 2, 2018 Same plan, except instead of Shane Ray, let's go Dante Fowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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