Evaluating & Projecting The Roster

[SemperFeist]

3 hours ago, since72 said:

Can someone explain to me what a "backside read" is?  Is that where a QB looks to throw to a receiver on the left side of the field (for a right-handed QB)?  I don't know much about the technical aspects of football and don't remember seeing that term before.  Thanks in advance.

A backside read is a read that would be on the opposite side of the field as the QB’s first read. 

For example, if Adam Thielen is split out to the left, Diggs is split out to the right, and the Thielen is the QB’s first read (pre-snap or post snap), Diggs would be a backside read because he’s on the other side. 

If I’ve been told correctly, a QB’s reads aren’t sporadic around the field. A QB isn’t going to look left and 1, look right at 2, look back left for 3, then look up the middle for 4. His reads are going to the path as he scans the field from left to right or right to left. 

[RpMc]

First two reads, depending on formation are generally on the same side of the field and the throw is dictated by coverage. For instance; the Smash combination is a cover-3 beater that involves the #1 WR (counting from the outside) running a stop or jerk route) and the #2 WR to that side running a corner route. If the corner lingers too long on the #1 route, hit the corner route; if the cornerback is too quick to honor his deep third responsibility, hit the short route.  Backside read on this type of play is generally a post or dig route and then the back would be your checkdown on a delay or hook in the middle of the field.

[Cearbhall]

In addition to the above, which side is the front side is often determined by a pre snap read. Often one side is has a zone buster route combination while the other side has a man buster combination. The QB's zone/man determination before the snap dictates which side will be the front side reads.

[Heimdallr]

I'd love to see one of Waynes, Alexander or Hughes move to safety. Having a coverage free safety that has the speed to be a single centerfielder would let Harrison Smith play in the box more often. Harrison is great in coverage, but he can dominate and change games when he plays closer to the ball.

[RpMc]

I'd think Holton Hill would be better suited that any of them.

[since72]

SemperFeist, rpmwr19, Cearbhall

Thanks for answering my question.  That helps me understand a lot.  You guys are awesome.

Back on topic.  I think most of the roster is pretty well set already.  Not very interesting to discuss who's going to be the 5th receiver, etc.  It seems when we go into a draft with that condition, we have a weak draft.  It's almost like Spielman doesn't put in the effort. 

I hope we don't get complacent.  Another 2010 would be a nightmare.

[swede700]

4 minutes ago, since72 said:

SemperFeist, rpmwr19, Cearbhall

Thanks for answering my question.  That helps me understand a lot.  You guys are awesome.

Back on topic.  I think most of the roster is pretty well set already.  Not very interesting to discuss who's going to be the 5th receiver, etc.  It seems when we go into a draft with that condition, we have a weak draft.  It's almost like Spielman doesn't put in the effort. 

I hope we don't get complacent.  Another 2010 would be a nightmare.

I don't think US Bank Stadium is going to collapse.  

[ArcticNorseman]

Getting old and weary as a Vikes fan allows one to look back over the years and think about a few things.  I'm not sure how this current team and coaching staff compare to the best teams Bud Grant fielded; however, if we were to compare the "almosts," I like this team.  By almosts, I mean the late '80s, Denny Greeens teams and the '09 team that went to NFC championships, but couldn't win . . .

The defense under Floyd Peters (sure Jerry Burns was HC) was almost as good as the current squad.  Zimmer's done better, IMO --- he has pro-bowlers at each level . . . fearsome pass rushers and run-stuffers, impressive LBs, a true shut-down CB and a safety that commands respect.  Plus, Zimmer's added deeper, more reliable talent around the starters, so much so we didn't see a major drop off last year . . . although those playoff games exposed some things.  Offensively, I don't put Cousins in Farve's class, but he's better than Wade Wilson and probably Culpepper (remains to be seen).  Back in the '80s, the running game stunk, so there was a trade . . . one that ripped my guts out.  

The DG squad had John Randle defensively, and an offense of pure mythology (or dang close to it).  The '09 squad had the Williams Wall, Jared Allen, Greenway, Antoine Winfield and Sharper . . . and they had Peterson, Farve, a damn good line and other skill players.  So, skill-wise, has Zimmer's squad surpassed the combination of the '09 team?

Gotta wonder if they're 5 or 6 deep on DE, 4 quality CBs, strong LBs/Safeties and Linval + at DT . . . with most of these guys now 5 years in on Zimmer's system, I can't imagine they won't fit a top-5 total D.  Question is, do they live up to it?  I think this D can be truly rare, exceptionally dominant -- as good as the PPE and Floyd Peters' squad.

So, it boils down to offense.  Starting in the trenches, this O-line is probably on par with the other O-lines, which tells me they need to get a smidge better as a unit to help dominate divisional round, conference championships and the SB.  Skill-wise this team does not compare to Moss, Carter, Reed and Smith.  The late '80s team had Jordan and Anthony Carter . . . good line, but they forgot about QB and RB . . . so, Zim's squad is better.  Balance-wise, I'd have to go with '09 as the winner for offense.  

Can this squad get there?  Can the line dominate and Cousins succeed?  I like the blend of skill guys they'll work with.  I love the RB depth if Cook stays healthy and I think TE is as talented and deep as the roster's ever been.  WRs . . . hmmmm, if Diggs and Thielen play like they did last year - awesome!  Need to see how the next 4 blend in.  

On O-Line, I see Rieff, Remmers, Elflein, Easton, Hill, O'Neill, Gossett and ??? making the active roster.  With Elflein at center, this unit will be even better than last year, just pray he stays healthy.  I could see 4 TEs being active, with 5 WRs.  Cook, Murray, Ham and ??? another tailback would make 4 RBs . . . Cousins and Simean at QB, with Sloter possible.  So, that's 23 on the O squad.  

Defensively, I suspect Zim has some tough choices to make . . . like maybe Robison retires before the season?  With all the young blood, would he be savy enough to make the final roster?  Keeping 9 active on the D-line seems the trend, right?  6 or 7 LBs, 6 CBs (maybe 7 Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Hughes, Newman, ???), 4 Safeties and the special teamers . . . 

All in all, I don't see how this team is not as talented as any SB-winning roster, ever.  Is it deep enough to overcome injuries, should they happen?  does the team avoid the negative spotlight?  I think Zimmer will keep the reigns on tight and work his magic.  It's exciting to see this roster evolve . . . I'm a bit worried Defense is being bought on the premium while the offense is working hard to keep pace . . . I don't know if they have issue with the defense being ranked #1 if they're 15 . . . last year worked well, so let's hope this gang is top-5 all three phases and treats us fans to a non-heartbreaking memorable year!

[Guest]

5 hours ago, ArcticNorseman said:

Getting old and weary as a Vikes fan allows one to look back over the years and think about a few things.  I'm not sure how this current team and coaching staff compare to the best teams Bud Grant fielded; however, if we were to compare the "almosts," I like this team.  By almosts, I mean the late '80s, Denny Greeens teams and the '09 team that went to NFC championships, but couldn't win . . .

The defense under Floyd Peters (sure Jerry Burns was HC) was almost as good as the current squad.  Zimmer's done better, IMO --- he has pro-bowlers at each level . . . fearsome pass rushers and run-stuffers, impressive LBs, a true shut-down CB and a safety that commands respect.  Plus, Zimmer's added deeper, more reliable talent around the starters, so much so we didn't see a major drop off last year . . . although those playoff games exposed some things.  Offensively, I don't put Cousins in Farve's class, but he's better than Wade Wilson and probably Culpepper (remains to be seen).  Back in the '80s, the running game stunk, so there was a trade . . . one that ripped my guts out.  

The DG squad had John Randle defensively, and an offense of pure mythology (or dang close to it).  The '09 squad had the Williams Wall, Jared Allen, Greenway, Antoine Winfield and Sharper . . . and they had Peterson, Farve, a damn good line and other skill players.  So, skill-wise, has Zimmer's squad surpassed the combination of the '09 team?

Gotta wonder if they're 5 or 6 deep on DE, 4 quality CBs, strong LBs/Safeties and Linval + at DT . . . with most of these guys now 5 years in on Zimmer's system, I can't imagine they won't fit a top-5 total D.  Question is, do they live up to it?  I think this D can be truly rare, exceptionally dominant -- as good as the PPE and Floyd Peters' squad.

So, it boils down to offense.  Starting in the trenches, this O-line is probably on par with the other O-lines, which tells me they need to get a smidge better as a unit to help dominate divisional round, conference championships and the SB.  Skill-wise this team does not compare to Moss, Carter, Reed and Smith.  The late '80s team had Jordan and Anthony Carter . . . good line, but they forgot about QB and RB . . . so, Zim's squad is better.  Balance-wise, I'd have to go with '09 as the winner for offense.  

Can this squad get there?  Can the line dominate and Cousins succeed?  I like the blend of skill guys they'll work with.  I love the RB depth if Cook stays healthy and I think TE is as talented and deep as the roster's ever been.  WRs . . . hmmmm, if Diggs and Thielen play like they did last year - awesome!  Need to see how the next 4 blend in.  

On O-Line, I see Rieff, Remmers, Elflein, Easton, Hill, O'Neill, Gossett and ??? making the active roster.  With Elflein at center, this unit will be even better than last year, just pray he stays healthy.  I could see 4 TEs being active, with 5 WRs.  Cook, Murray, Ham and ??? another tailback would make 4 RBs . . . Cousins and Simean at QB, with Sloter possible.  So, that's 23 on the O squad.  

Defensively, I suspect Zim has some tough choices to make . . . like maybe Robison retires before the season?  With all the young blood, would he be savy enough to make the final roster?  Keeping 9 active on the D-line seems the trend, right?  6 or 7 LBs, 6 CBs (maybe 7 Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Hughes, Newman, ???), 4 Safeties and the special teamers . . . 

All in all, I don't see how this team is not as talented as any SB-winning roster, ever.  Is it deep enough to overcome injuries, should they happen?  does the team avoid the negative spotlight?  I think Zimmer will keep the reigns on tight and work his magic.  It's exciting to see this roster evolve . . . I'm a bit worried Defense is being bought on the premium while the offense is working hard to keep pace . . . I don't know if they have issue with the defense being ranked #1 if they're 15 . . . last year worked well, so let's hope this gang is top-5 all three phases and treats us fans to a non-heartbreaking memorable year!

Good post.  However, I think that Sharper was playing in New Orleans in '09.

[battle2heaven]

We are going with 9 offensive linemen on the 53, I am thinking this:

1. Riley Reiff OT

2. Brian O'Neill OT

3. Rashod Hill OT

4. Mike Remmers OT/OG

5. Aviante Collins OT/OG

6. Nick Easton G/C

6. Danny Isidora G/C

7. Colby Gossett G/T

8. Josh Andrews G/C

9. Pat Elflein C

 

Compton would be 10 if we keep 10 for some reason.

EDIT: just realized I have 2 #6's, oops.

 

Looks like we might need to make a decision on an interior and risk losing one.

[swede700]

7 hours ago, ArcticNorseman said:

Getting old and weary as a Vikes fan allows one to look back over the years and think about a few things.  I'm not sure how this current team and coaching staff compare to the best teams Bud Grant fielded; however, if we were to compare the "almosts," I like this team.  By almosts, I mean the late '80s, Denny Greeens teams and the '09 team that went to NFC championships, but couldn't win . . .

The defense under Floyd Peters (sure Jerry Burns was HC) was almost as good as the current squad.  Zimmer's done better, IMO --- he has pro-bowlers at each level . . . fearsome pass rushers and run-stuffers, impressive LBs, a true shut-down CB and a safety that commands respect.  Plus, Zimmer's added deeper, more reliable talent around the starters, so much so we didn't see a major drop off last year . . . although those playoff games exposed some things.  Offensively, I don't put Cousins in Farve's class, but he's better than Wade Wilson and probably Culpepper (remains to be seen).  Back in the '80s, the running game stunk, so there was a trade . . . one that ripped my guts out.  

The DG squad had John Randle defensively, and an offense of pure mythology (or dang close to it).  The '09 squad had the Williams Wall, Jared Allen, Greenway, Antoine Winfield and Sharper . . . and they had Peterson, Farve, a damn good line and other skill players.  So, skill-wise, has Zimmer's squad surpassed the combination of the '09 team?

Gotta wonder if they're 5 or 6 deep on DE, 4 quality CBs, strong LBs/Safeties and Linval + at DT . . . with most of these guys now 5 years in on Zimmer's system, I can't imagine they won't fit a top-5 total D.  Question is, do they live up to it?  I think this D can be truly rare, exceptionally dominant -- as good as the PPE and Floyd Peters' squad.

So, it boils down to offense.  Starting in the trenches, this O-line is probably on par with the other O-lines, which tells me they need to get a smidge better as a unit to help dominate divisional round, conference championships and the SB.  Skill-wise this team does not compare to Moss, Carter, Reed and Smith.  The late '80s team had Jordan and Anthony Carter . . . good line, but they forgot about QB and RB . . . so, Zim's squad is better.  Balance-wise, I'd have to go with '09 as the winner for offense.  

Can this squad get there?  Can the line dominate and Cousins succeed?  I like the blend of skill guys they'll work with.  I love the RB depth if Cook stays healthy and I think TE is as talented and deep as the roster's ever been.  WRs . . . hmmmm, if Diggs and Thielen play like they did last year - awesome!  Need to see how the next 4 blend in.  

On O-Line, I see Rieff, Remmers, Elflein, Easton, Hill, O'Neill, Gossett and ??? making the active roster.  With Elflein at center, this unit will be even better than last year, just pray he stays healthy.  I could see 4 TEs being active, with 5 WRs.  Cook, Murray, Ham and ??? another tailback would make 4 RBs . . . Cousins and Simean at QB, with Sloter possible.  So, that's 23 on the O squad.  

Defensively, I suspect Zim has some tough choices to make . . . like maybe Robison retires before the season?  With all the young blood, would he be savy enough to make the final roster?  Keeping 9 active on the D-line seems the trend, right?  6 or 7 LBs, 6 CBs (maybe 7 Rhodes, Waynes, Alexander, Hughes, Newman, ???), 4 Safeties and the special teamers . . . 

All in all, I don't see how this team is not as talented as any SB-winning roster, ever.  Is it deep enough to overcome injuries, should they happen?  does the team avoid the negative spotlight?  I think Zimmer will keep the reigns on tight and work his magic.  It's exciting to see this roster evolve . . . I'm a bit worried Defense is being bought on the premium while the offense is working hard to keep pace . . . I don't know if they have issue with the defense being ranked #1 if they're 15 . . . last year worked well, so let's hope this gang is top-5 all three phases and treats us fans to a non-heartbreaking memorable year!

While the current defense is kind of close in matching the '98 offense, the entire current team is far more balanced than any of the Vikings' teams I've seen.  All of the teams you mentioned had significant weaknesses.  In the Burns' era, you had the QB issue (I was a huge Wade Wilson guy...I probably despise Tommy Kramer more than any other QB in Vikings' history) and the defense was pretty decent, but the secondary was just okay, outside of Browner.  In the Denny Green era, the defense was absolutely awful, outside of 3-4 guys (Randle/Thomas/McDaniel/Griffith).  In '09, I think it was just a team that struck lightning in a bottle because the team wasn't all that great/solid either offensively or defensively...it was just Favre magic.  As far as the current team, there is a weakness in the offensive line, but I'm not sure it's nearly as dramatic as some are led to believe...mainly because the offensive lines as a whole around the league aren't very good.  Comparatively, they aren't as much of a weakness now as they would have been in 1989 or 1998...or even probably 2009 for that matter.      

[Snake Plissken]

7 minutes ago, battle2heaven said:

We are going with 9 offensive linemen on the 53, I am thinking this:

1. Riley Reiff OT

2. Brian O'Neill OT

3. Rashod Hill OT

4. Mike Remmers OT/OG

5. Aviante Collins OT/OG

6. Nick Easton G/C

6. Danny Isidora G/C

7. Colby Gossett G/T

8. Josh Andrews G/C

9. Pat Elflein C

 

Compton would be 10 if we keep 10 for some reason.

Looks good.  Can anyone provide a review of Josh Andrews?  I believe Spielman said he was their number one rated practice squad Offensive Lineman when he was there for the Eagles last season.

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, disaacs said:

  As far as the current team, there is a weakness in the offensive line, but I'm not sure it's nearly as dramatic as some are led to believe...mainly because the offensive lines as a whole around the league aren't very good.  Comparatively, they aren't as much of a weakness now as they would have been in 1989 or 1998...or even probably 2009 for that matter.      

I understand your thesis here, and even agree with most of it.  However, the Vikings switched quarterbacks, from one who was excellent in feeling pressure and moving in and out of the pocket accordingly, to one who is not good at feeling the pressure and who is a risk to turn the ball over.  It would seem, by your logic, that Vikings would improve the OL play, especially in strong pass protection.  In my opinion the front office did not improve this weakness in either free agency or the draft for 2018.  With a tougher schedule and the really good defensive linemen in the league (especially in the NFC) I'm afraid that the Vikings will not do as well as they did last season. 

[Klomp]

Dealing with roster projections, would anyone think there's a possibility keeping a guy like Mata'afa would allow the team to carry one fewer DL/LB because of his positional flexibility between the two?

[vikestyle]

25 minutes ago, Klomp said:

Dealing with roster projections, would anyone think there's a possibility keeping a guy like Mata'afa would allow the team to carry one fewer DL/LB because of his positional flexibility between the two?

Maybe after a couple years on the practice squad. This year, however, I don't think you count on him to provide depth at a position he has no experience playing.