Evaluating & Projecting The Roster

[Klomp]

1 minute ago, swede700 said:

The rules have changed somewhat, but they didn't have to put him on IR, they could have put him on the PUP list, which still existed at the time and he could have come back after Week 6.  

Was the rule in place where you have to release the player once he's healthy again?

[Cearbhall]

12 minutes ago, swede700 said:

The rules have changed somewhat, but they didn't have to put him on IR, they could have put him on the PUP list, which still existed at the time and he could have come back after Week 6.  

This is incorrect. A player cannot be put on the PUP list during the season if they had already practiced in training camp or played in a game. Eligibility for the PUP during the year requires starting camp on the PUP and not coming off the PUP.

[Cearbhall]

43 minutes ago, Klomp said:

The NFL changed its IR rules since then, I believe.

I don't know about IR rule changes but teams place players on IR with questionable injuries. If the player doesn't say anything it seems to be fine. If the player wants to have a shot at another roster his agent can negotiate an injury settlement with the team. Often, fringe players, especially players that have never made a 53 man roster before, are happy to stay on IR and get paid for the entire year.

[swede700]

11 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

This is incorrect. A player cannot be put on the PUP list during the season if they had already practiced in training camp or played in a game. Eligibility for the PUP during the year requires starting camp on the PUP and not coming off the PUP.

You are correct, I was wrong about that.  But, I still remember at the time that they had other options on how to handle it.  They didn't have to put him on season-ending IR.  I liked his promise...but, in the end, it doesn't really matter, since he never delivered on it elsewhere either.  

[CriminalMind]

2 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

I don't know about IR rule changes but teams place players on IR with questionable injuries. If the player doesn't say anything it seems to be fine. If the player wants to have a shot at another roster his agent can negotiate an injury settlement with the team. Often, fringe players, especially players that have never made a 53 man roster before, are happy to stay on IR and get paid for the entire year.

Yes agreed. And many teams and players are okay with this arrangement.

It's generally players that like the situation they could be in next year (with the current team), and the team will give them that full pay check for the current season, and they just stay quiet while they nurse that lower body heel-leg strain. It's also helpful if that player didn't have a massive preseason, but still carries some "name recognition/potential".

I remember NE did this with the American Sprinter who was at the Olympics a couple weeks before cut down day. They placed him on the IR with a phantom injury to redshirt him.

[SemperFeist]

It’s a myth. And not a very good one at that. Teams do not “red shirt” players on IR. 

First, insinuating that teams do this suggests that a team likes a guy too much place him on the practice squad, but not enough to place him on the roster. That’s just dumb. 

Second, the only reason you’d like a guy like that, is if you think you can develop him into someone worthy of an active roster spot. Pretty hard to develop a guy who’s on IR, and not allowed to practice or take part in any football related responsibilities. 

Third, if teams did this regularly to stash developmental players, you’d see A LOT more players on IR. 

Fourth, what type of player, who’s apparently too good to try and slide on the practice squad, but not the active roster, is going to accept that deal? Especially when a team claiming them on waivers would need to put them on their active roster? What type of player, who’s assumedly trying to make it in the NFL, is going to voluntarily sit a year, losing any opportunity to develop their craft? 

Finally, do you honestly believe that teams are going to risk getting caught, getting fined, and likely losing a draft pick, or more, for a player who’s not good enough to roster?

[VikeManDan]

Game 4 against the Titans looms very large for some of these guys. 

[RpMc]

4 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s a myth. And not a very good one at that. Teams do not “red shirt” players on IR. 

First, insinuating that teams do this suggests that a team likes a guy too much place him on the practice squad, but not enough to place him on the roster. That’s just dumb. 

Second, the only reason you’d like a guy like that, is if you think you can develop him into someone worthy of an active roster spot. Pretty hard to develop a guy who’s on IR, and not allowed to practice or take part in any football related responsibilities. 

Third, if teams did this regularly to stash developmental players, you’d see A LOT more players on IR. 

Fourth, what type of player, who’s apparently too good to try and slide on the practice squad, but not the active roster, is going to accept that deal? Especially when a team claiming them on waivers would need to put them on their active roster? What type of player, who’s assumedly trying to make it in the NFL, is going to voluntarily sit a year, losing any opportunity to develop their craft? 

Finally, do you honestly believe that teams are going to risk getting caught, getting fined, and likely losing a draft pick, or more, for a player who’s not good enough to roster?

Perfectly summed up. I wish this post had a PowerPoint presentation associated with it. 

[Ozzy]

On 8/19/2018 at 11:39 AM, Krauser said:

There's a case for keeping 8 guys from the 2017 draft class, plus all 3 UDFAs who made the team as rookies last year: 

• Elflein, Cook, Gedeon, obviously
• Jaleel as the 3rd DT
• Isidora as a starting guard
• Coley as WR4 or WR5
• Odenigbo as the 8th DL / nickel DT pass rusher
• Tocho as either the 4th safety (replacing Kearse) or 5th safety if they keep 5
• Wilson as the 4th LB, first backup nickel LB
• Collins as a multi position OL backup
• Bower as the 4th DE (ideally, 3rd ahead of Robison)

Maybe Tocho doesn't make the cut , but the other 10 (!) seem pretty close to roster locks. That would mean the entire class from 2017 panned out except Rodney Adams. Even Elijah Lee went to the Niners and was their most used special teams player while playing a few snaps as a backup LB. 

That is pretty impressive for sure.  And Rodney Adams sure did not turn out but he decided to retire I guess to become a actor/model.  So clearly his head was never in the game, but he flashed I thought and if he put his mind to it would easily be on an NFL roster as well.  I was disappointed to see them let him go last year, but was picked up quickly by another team but obviously again his head was not in it but had the athletic talent to play in the league.  

 

Odenigbo if he keeps playing as well as he has this preseason, he will be a massive steal, kid is playing some great football I think so far this preseason.  

[swede700]

Quote

 

Mike Zimmer wants more depth at linebacker.

“We don’t have enough depth right now,” Zimmer said Tuesday, via Chris Tomasson of the St. Paul Pioneer Press. “So that’s what we’re trying to work on, getting more depth at probably a lot of spots.”

 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/22/mike-zimmer-wants-more-depth-at-linebacker/

So where's he going to find it?  

[vikingsrule]

17 minutes ago, swede700 said:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/08/22/mike-zimmer-wants-more-depth-at-linebacker/

So where's he going to find it?  

I agree with Zimmer. Even if Brothers is active, I don't think we have a backup LB really worth anything. I don't feel good about any of them having to fill in as a starter. I like Wilson as a reserve and I think Downs can be a good developmental option, I just don't see a plug and play type. 

We talk about a lack of OL depth, I think LB is even worse and will be a prority once teams start cutting players.

[Cearbhall]

2 hours ago, vikingsrule said:

We talk about a lack of OL depth

I talk about OL starters. The team will be fine on depth once they get good starters. Compton as interior depth and Hill as the swing tackle is good enough along with some of the developmental guys like Isidora, Gossett, and O'Neil. Nick Easton was even more ideal depth but they can't bring him back from IR for 8 weeks and I don't know what the recovery time might be after herniated neck disk surgery.

[vikestyle]

6 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

I talk about OL starters. The team will be fine on depth once they get good starters. Compton as interior depth and Hill as the swing tackle is good enough along with some of the developmental guys like Isidora, Gossett, and O'Neil. Nick Easton was even more ideal depth but they can't bring him back from IR for 8 weeks and I don't know what the recovery time might be after herniated neck disk surgery.

He will definitely be held out the whole year I would think. You don't rush a guy back from back surgery. Think John Sullivan from 2015. 

[swede700]

 

[CriminalMind]

Looks fairly good, our good players got the dollars ... as it should be.

The benefit for Vikings and Eagles I think, is that the low % of cap goes to the "useless players / deadcap"