Evaluating & Projecting The Roster

[vike daddy]

6 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s not trust, so much as it is having a QB who’s going to read the entire field before the snap, instead of just half, and having a QB who will look at his backside reads while going through progression.  

Its hard to praise a receiver when there is such little production, but when you watch the coach’s tape, Treadwell, and Wright, were not only open a good amount of time, but they were also drawing very favorable matchups in coverage. Keenum missed this far too often because he wasn’t asked to make that difficult of presnap reads, or go through his progressions that deep. Cousins is a guy who is outstanding and diagnosing a defense presnap, and he’ll go through his full progressions, given enough time. 

With Cousins at QB, we should see a big uptick in production from the #3 and #4 receiver’s, who ever they turn out to be. 

i wish we could give out more than one "like" at a time. thank you.

[Krauser]

Agree that Treadwell’s production was hampered to some extent by Keenum locking in on 1st reads, usually to Thielen. Cousins should do better at working through his progressions  

Not convinced that was the only or major reason he didn’t produce. He rarely if ever got separation downfield vs man coverage. He did win some short/intermediate routes (slants, especially) vs man, and did OK vs zone (12 yard dig routes, etc). Some of the lack of trust was on him — aside from the circus catch in the Packers game, he didn’t come down with a contested catch all year, and he botched one of his deep fade routes badly enough that it turned into an INT (in the end zone in the Ravens game).

Treadwell losing snaps and targets to Floyd and Jarius Wright is not a point in his favor. Floyd was suspended for the first 4 games and didn’t contribute much. Jarius is a pure slot receiver who in theory shouldn’t compete with Treadwell, at least if you think that Kendall Wright won’t compete with Treadwell because he’s primarily a slot WR. There’s a reason stats analytics use “market share” as a way of puttting WR production in context — part of the process of succeeding as a receiver is moving up the pecking order on the roster in terms of snaps and targets. Treadwell last year was used mostly for run blocking and was rarely the primary target in the passing offense. That’s a very bad sign, not a reason to expect he has untapped potential for future development. 

[Cearbhall]

1 hour ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s not trust, so much as it is having a QB who’s going to read the entire field before the snap, instead of just half, and having a QB who will look at his backside reads while going through progression.  

Its hard to praise a receiver when there is such little production, but when you watch the coach’s tape, Treadwell, and Wright, were not only open a good amount of time, but they were also drawing very favorable matchups in coverage. Keenum missed this far too often because he wasn’t asked to make that difficult of presnap reads, or go through his progressions that deep. Cousins is a guy who is outstanding and diagnosing a defense presnap, and he’ll go through his full progressions, given enough time. 

With Cousins at QB, we should see a big uptick in production from the #3 and #4 receiver’s, who ever they turn out to be. 

I predict that Treadwell supporters will still be making excuses for him by midseason this year. I just can't foresee what the excuses will be. Why would Jarius Wright be more productive when taking WR3 snaps than Laquan Treadwell?

I do not buy into the excuses I had seen for Treadwell at all. I still hope he turns it around but the reason why Laquan Treadwell hasn't been more productive in his first couple years is of his own doing. If he is going to get better he needs to accept that and work harder to improve his game rather than thinking it is someone else's fault that his productivity has been terrible.

[VikeManDan]

9 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

If he is going to get better he needs to accept that and work harder to improve his game rather than thinking it is someone else's fault that his productivity has been terrible.

I don't think work ethic is the problem with LT. I also haven't seen him (LT) come out and say that it is someone else's fault he isn't productive.

Zimmer on LT: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000918330/article/zimmer-treadwell-needs-to-get-out-of-his-own-way

I still have some hope for LT but am not going to be upset if/when we need to move on from him. Especially if we resign Diggs. 

[Cearbhall]

15 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

28 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

 

I don't think work ethic is the problem with LT. I also haven't seen him (LT) come out and say that it is someone else's fault he isn't productive.

Yeah, I agree that work ethic is not likely the problem. It is more likely closer to Cordarrelle Patterson -- just not a very good WR. However, if he is going to get better he needs to not be blaming someone else for his current situation. He given the gift of being drafted in the first round and to this point HE has not made much of that opportunity.

Being willing to work is great but working harder doesn't help if not working on the right things. Remember Patterson going to workout with "hell's trainer". It was great that he was working hard and all, but the coach wanted him working on something else.

Treadwell needs to focus in on understanding what he need to improve on rather than blaming his situation on others while continuing to work hard at something that isn't the problem.

[SemperFeist]

Where has Treadwell ever blamed someone else, or his situation?

[Klomp]

3 hours ago, Krauser said:

Treadwell losing snaps and targets to Floyd and Jarius Wright is not a point in his favor. Floyd was suspended for the first 4 games and didn’t contribute much. Jarius is a pure slot receiver who in theory shouldn’t compete with Treadwell, at least if you think that Kendall Wright won’t compete with Treadwell because he’s primarily a slot WR. There’s a reason stats analytics use “market share” as a way of puttting WR production in context — part of the process of succeeding as a receiver is moving up the pecking order on the roster in terms of snaps and targets. Treadwell last year was used mostly for run blocking and was rarely the primary target in the passing offense. That’s a very bad sign, not a reason to expect he has untapped potential for future development. 

When both of the top two receivers work both inside and outside, the complementary guys absolutely compete with each other even if one's a slot receiver and one's a boundary receiver.

[since72]

5 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

It’s not trust, so much as it is having a QB who’s going to read the entire field before the snap, instead of just half, and having a QB who will look at his backside reads while going through progression.  

Can someone explain to me what a "backside read" is?  Is that where a QB looks to throw to a receiver on the left side of the field (for a right-handed QB)?  I don't know much about the technical aspects of football and don't remember seeing that term before.  Thanks in advance.

[Krauser]

10 minutes ago, Klomp said:

When both of the top two receivers work both inside and outside, the complementary guys absolutely compete with each other even if one's a slot receiver and one's a boundary receiver.

Right, I know. The story is that Kendall Wright won't be the WR3 because Thielen and Diggs play in the slot, Wright plays in the slot and Treadwell is a pure outside WR. 

I'm saying Treadwell lost snaps to Jarius Wright at the end of last year, and Jarius has similar usage (slot, sometimes flanker) as Kendall Wright. Treadwell did still play some (typically 30-40% of snaps) but mostly on early downs, with Wright getting more opportunities in 3WR sets in passing situations. 

So unless Treadwell gets considerably better, I think he'll continue to struggle to get on the field in passing situations, just with a different Wright playing in front of him. 

[swede700]

2 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Where has Treadwell ever blamed someone else, or his situation?

I agree that's an odd comment, because he's never blamed anyone for anything.  He's hardly even commented on his progress period.  He just says he's working hard.  He must be confusing him with someone else.  

[Cearbhall]

3 hours ago, SemperFeist said:

Where has Treadwell ever blamed someone else, or his situation?

Nobody ever said that Treadwell blamed someone else. Neither you nor I know what is going on in Treadwell's head.

I have, however, seen others, including you, @SemperFeist, making excuses for Treadwell's terrible productivity. This is why I said that I do not buy into the excuses I had seen for Treadwell at all. Also, this is why I comment that I hope Treadwell does not buy into those excuses and suggest he ought to focus on understanding what he need to improve on rather than blaming his situation on others while continuing to work hard. We can hope he doesn't buy into the line of excuses some of his supporters seem to buy into.

[SemperFeist]

6 minutes ago, Cearbhall said:

Nobody ever said that Treadwell blamed someone else.

 

3 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

Treadwell needs to focus in on understanding what he need to improve on rather than blaming his situation on others

 

4 hours ago, Cearbhall said:

he needs to accept that and work harder to improve his game rather than thinking it is someone else's fault

You literally say it twice within an hour of each other. 

[Cearbhall]

1 minute ago, SemperFeist said:

 

 

You literally say it twice within an hour of each other. 

No I didn't. I did not say that Treadwell said anything. I said exactly what you quoted. Stop putting words in my mouth.

[SemperFeist]

You wrote it, not me. I’m not putting any words in your mouth.

The mere suggestion that he needs to stop blaming his situation on others is an implication that he’s doing so. 

[Cearbhall]

25 minutes ago, SemperFeist said:

The mere suggestion that he needs to stop blaming his situation on others is an implication that he’s doing so.

What I said does not imply that he is making excuses. That is your inference. And, I never said "stop blaming". Suggesting he should stop blaming does imply that he started, but I did not say that, did I?