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3rivers

your draft grade and playoff teams predictions

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49 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

I actually forgot about Ridley. That complicates things a bit. But I still think Samuels makes the roster at some other player's expense. One player offering so many different things is a hard cut. 

I don't think Ridley complicates things at all. He was signed at the minimum and can easily be cut. Unless Samuels gets hurt in TC he's going to make the roster as the 3rd RB behind Bell and Conner. 

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C- or D, best I can give it. Not so much because of the players themselves, but because this was the exact opposite of the draft we needed to have. Ignored immediate needs and focused on the future too much... Stuff you don't do when your in win-now mode. A backup project left tackle, backup quarterback for at least the next two years, and a third or fourth wide receiver in my opinion is just another guy, and a monumental reach on a guy eerily similar to Mike Mitchell.

Those were the first 3 Rounds.

Meanwhile, we don't have a single capable starter at inside linebacker, no consistent pass rusher, now above average nose tackle, and we are still lacking in the secondary, especially since they chose to draft the exact same safeties that have contributed to their problems over the years.

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7 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

....especially since they chose to draft the exact same safeties that have contributed to their problems over the years.

Not responding to this...just adding something to it...

This is my main issue with Tomlin....he just doesnt learn from mistakes.     I dont expect a coach to be perfect....I dont nitpick him to death with petty nonsense like some clowns do....but dear lord, there are so many instances of Tomlin simply not learning from past mistakes that its baffling.    Its why, come 2020, I wont bat an eyelash if the front office lets him walk (which I doubt).   And if we regress this year to the point where we dont make the playoffs....I wouldnt even be opposed to getting rid of him next year....along with Colbert.

Now, this wont happen.....and Im not overreacting.      Despite my defense of Tomlin over the years, I havent failed to see his shortcomings, and while I dont think it will be easy to go out and find a CLEARLY better coach, I think it might be time to bring in some fresh minds.     The 2017 season (despite going 13-3, I thought the coaching was sub-par most of the year), and the draft have just really tarnished my opinion of Tomlin and the front office.     

I think Tomlin will absolutely finish out his contract, no matter what happens, but I at least hope he isnt a shoe in for a new contract.    If we arent at least IN another Superbowl within the next 2 years, I think its time to go a different direction....especially if terrible coaching and lack of talent at positions we shouldve address this year play a big role. 

I hope Tomlin (and Colbert) makes me eat these words....but I dont see it.         

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4 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Not responding to this...just adding something to it...

This is my main issue with Tomlin....he just doesnt learn from mistakes.     I dont expect a coach to be perfect....I dont nitpick him to death with petty nonsense like some clowns do....but dear lord, there are so many instances of Tomlin simply not learning from past mistakes that its baffling.    Its why, come 2020, I wont bat an eyelash if the front office lets him walk (which I doubt).   And if we regress this year to the point where we dont make the playoffs....I wouldnt even be opposed to getting rid of him next year....along with Colbert.

Now, this wont happen.....and Im not overreacting.      Despite my defense of Tomlin over the years, I havent failed to see his shortcomings, and while I dont think it will be easy to go out and find a CLEARLY better coach, I think it might be time to bring in some fresh minds.     The 2017 season (despite going 13-3, I thought the coaching was sub-par most of the year), and the draft have just really tarnished my opinion of Tomlin and the front office.     

I think Tomlin will absolutely finish out his contract, no matter what happens, but I at least hope he isnt a shoe in for a new contract.    If we arent at least IN another Superbowl within the next 2 years, I think its time to go a different direction....especially if terrible coaching and lack of talent at positions we shouldve address this year play a big role. 

I hope Tomlin (and Colbert) makes me eat these words....but I dont see it.         

how do you think Vrabel and Patricia will do as coaches?

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3 hours ago, 3rivers said:

how do you think Vrabel and Patricia will do as coaches?

I didn't think either we're particularly strong candidates... but only time will tell how good they can be. As good of a coach as Belichick is, the coaching tree that has branched out from him hasn't been that impressive. How many coaches that have coached under Belichick have went on to notable success as head coaches? That doesn't mean those two will fail, but it doesn't bode well.

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8 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Not responding to this...just adding something to it...

This is my main issue with Tomlin....he just doesnt learn from mistakes.     I dont expect a coach to be perfect....I dont nitpick him to death with petty nonsense like some clowns do....but dear lord, there are so many instances of Tomlin simply not learning from past mistakes that its baffling.    Its why, come 2020, I wont bat an eyelash if the front office lets him walk (which I doubt).   And if we regress this year to the point where we dont make the playoffs....I wouldnt even be opposed to getting rid of him next year....along with Colbert.

Now, this wont happen.....and Im not overreacting.      Despite my defense of Tomlin over the years, I havent failed to see his shortcomings, and while I dont think it will be easy to go out and find a CLEARLY better coach, I think it might be time to bring in some fresh minds.     The 2017 season (despite going 13-3, I thought the coaching was sub-par most of the year), and the draft have just really tarnished my opinion of Tomlin and the front office.     

I think Tomlin will absolutely finish out his contract, no matter what happens, but I at least hope he isnt a shoe in for a new contract.    If we arent at least IN another Superbowl within the next 2 years, I think its time to go a different direction....especially if terrible coaching and lack of talent at positions we shouldve address this year play a big role. 

I hope Tomlin (and Colbert) makes me eat these words....but I dont see it.         

So here's my thing with that statement.  I get Tomlin is the HC and all...

....but we're making the mistakes in the draft too.  Where's someone standing up and stopping these mistakes?  Colbert and Rooney better not be door mats in the draft room, when it comes to signings.  I know this is risky to say but what about the OC or DC standing up to Tomlin some on rotational or personnel decisions and telling him he's making a mistake?

I think what's frustrating to me is the failure to learn from past mistakes doesn't seem isolated to Tomlin.  Colbert does it, Butler does it, Haley did it (Yet to be seen if Fintcher does it), heck the players does it.  

And I know this is going to sound sacrilege:

I blame Art Rooney.  When Dan was still in charge this team was run differently with accountability across the board, the draft was run differently.  Emphasis was put on finding guys who could play first, character second, everything else after that.  Now it seems as though athlete first, nothing else matters.  I think the direction the team has gone since Art Rooney has assumed control isn't all that great.

 

Unrelated but fun fact: The last time we made a trade in round 1 was Santonio Holmes.  Since then every other team has made at least 1 trade up and 1 trade down in the first round of the draft.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, warfelg said:

So here's my thing with that statement.  I get Tomlin is the HC and all...

....but we're making the mistakes in the draft too.  Where's someone standing up and stopping these mistakes?  Colbert and Rooney better not be door mats in the draft room, when it comes to signings.  I know this is risky to say but what about the OC or DC standing up to Tomlin some on rotational or personnel decisions and telling him he's making a mistake?

I think what's frustrating to me is the failure to learn from past mistakes doesn't seem isolated to Tomlin.  Colbert does it, Butler does it, Haley did it (Yet to be seen if Fintcher does it), heck the players does it.  

And I know this is going to sound sacrilege:

I blame Art Rooney.  When Dan was still in charge this team was run differently with accountability across the board, the draft was run differently.  Emphasis was put on finding guys who could play first, character second, everything else after that.  Now it seems as though athlete first, nothing else matters.  I think the direction the team has gone since Art Rooney has assumed control isn't all that great.

 

Unrelated but fun fact: The last time we made a trade in round 1 was Santonio Holmes.  Since then every other team has made at least 1 trade up and 1 trade down in the first round of the draft.

Not sacrilege at all... There has been a noticeable drop off in discipline and accountability since Art took over.

In terms of the trading up and down in the first round stuff, I don't really have a major problem with it. Strategic patience can pay off, and if they are high on a certain player when they pick, I can't fault them for making the pick. However, I seriously question if that's always the case. I have to wonder how many times they were extremely high on a given player, and their patience didn't pay off and they were thus forced to take a player they weren't nearly as high on. I don't really like bashing them for not trading down because we don't know what kind of offers they had to do so.... however, I don't believe the opportunity hasn't been there.

Edited by FourThreeMafia

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5 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

Not sacrilege at all... There has been a noticeable drop off in discipline and accountability since Art took over.

In terms of the trading up and down in the first round stuff, I don't really have a major problem with him. Strategic patience can pay off, and if they are high on a certain player when they pick, I can't fault them for making the pic. However, I seriously question if that's always the case. I have to wonder how many times they were extremely high on a given player, and their patience didn't pay off and they were thus forced to take a player they weren't nearly as high on. I don't really like bashing them for not trading down because we don't know what kind of offers they had to do so.... however, I don't believe the opportunity hasn't been there.

Well you hit why I consistently bring up the trade thing.  I think they've missed out on a fair number of players because of reluctance to move up.  As for the trading down because we don't know that kind of offers they got (and before I go further I'm glad you added that tag), I think the people that just use that are making an excuse.  We've seen plenty of times a team behind us trade out of a pick and get good value.  2015 right behind us taking Dupree, Denver traded 28, 2015 5th, 2016 5th, and Manny Ramirez (OG) for 23.  Now I know that year OLB was a huge need, but if we moved down those 6 spots from 22, there was still Malcom Brown (NT/DE), Landon Collins (world beater at S), Preston Smith (DE/OLB playing better than Dupree), and a slew of other defenders that could have helped us.  

2016 1 pick behind us Seattle traded out of 26 for Denvers 1st (31) and 3rd (94).  That would have been great value.  Again we picked Burns because of a need at CB.  I personally theorize that he still would have been there.  But lets say he wasn't.  You still could have gone Myles Jack, Xavien Howard, Noah Spence.  There was also some quality still on the board once you got to round 3.

I feel like I could do the same for last year too when SF traded into pick 31 for the 34th pick and 111th pick.

None of these trades are major drops in draft position, to the point where I think the guys you liked are off the board.  Most of them are great value that you can use to boost the franchise.  This is why I get frustrated with the lack of movement.  You can't convince me that trading down would have meant some mediocre talent would have come off the board and we wouldn't have gotten value.  Especially other than Dupree, for the last 4 drafts the sentiment has been "that guy is a day 2 pick", and even with Dupree they questioned if it was too early because Shane Ray was on the board.

I'll add I think this is part of the reason that we end up so thin when injuries hit.  We aren't 'buying more tickets' to better players.  We're given 7 a year, best case we add one or two because of comp picks, but usually we send 1 or 2 out for a little thing.  You can't build good depth if you only give yourself 5-7 chances a year to find a better player.

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