Dede Westbrook losing favor in organization?

[Speedyg]

1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

Dede did almost nothing last year to prove hes even better then Mickens so he should get a free pass because he was a 4th round pick?  Coughlins cut an earlier pick after 2 years and Minimal Production.  Dede is Just an average Undersized WR.   we dont need a Big Bodied WR on our roster. it would be different we didnt have speed to go with the smallness but cant you tell the NFL is all about winning with Seperation and Bortles tends to struggle throwing to guys who dont seperate very well.  Lazard is one of those guys who doesnt seperate well and doesnt have the quickness to get off press coverage.  BIG WRS are a dying breed. they arent very popular in the NFL anymore as evidenced by Lazard and Tate falling in the draft.  Im not gonna put expectations on him. sure ill give him a chance to compete but hes gonna have to shine on Special teams as it would be fairly obvious when put him into the game specifically in the redzone knowing the ball is either gonna go to him or ASJ.

 

to try to turn and compare him into an All-pro gunner cuz hes a big WR who played special teams is Lazy. 

Saying Dede did nothing to prove he's better than MIckens is lazy. Holy crap, really? Mickens lined up when all of our receivers were hurt, made the most of his opportunities while being an unknown to the opposing defense. As soon as the other receivers got healthy, he disappeared in our offense. Dede was often playing the outside WR spots going against the defense's better DBs and made some big time difficult catches in the playoffs.

We don't need a big bodied WR on our roster? Go tell that to the staff that brought in Lazard. If they didn't think they need a big bodied WR, why bring him in? Why make all these promises to entice him to come here especially given the depth that we already had at the position? They clearly had an idea of what he does, and brought him in anyway.

Saying Lazard is being brought in to play ST as a gunner isn't lazy...bro that's what a lot of the best gunners were!

Kassim Osgood - UDFA

Montell Owens - UDFA

Cody Davis - UDFA

Lazard is big, and can run (not as a receiver, but fast enough for ST). He played some ST in college, and he clearly has an uphill battle to make this roster. Saying the team likely views him and wants to develop him in that role isn't lazy, it's common sense.

[LinderFournette]

25 minutes ago, Speedyg said:

Saying Dede did nothing to prove he's better than MIckens is lazy. Holy crap, really? Mickens lined up when all of our receivers were hurt, made the most of his opportunities while being an unknown to the opposing defense. As soon as the other receivers got healthy, he disappeared in our offense. Dede was often playing the outside WR spots going against the defense's better DBs and made some big time difficult catches in the playoffs.

We don't need a big bodied WR on our roster? Go tell that to the staff that brought in Lazard. If they didn't think they need a big bodied WR, why bring him in? Why make all these promises to entice him to come here especially given the depth that we already had at the position? They clearly had an idea of what he does, and brought him in anyway.

Saying Lazard is being brought in to play ST as a gunner isn't lazy...bro that's what a lot of the best gunners were!

Kassim Osgood - UDFA

Montell Owens - UDFA

Cody Davis - UDFA

Lazard is big, and can run (not as a receiver, but fast enough for ST). He played some ST in college, and he clearly has an uphill battle to make this roster. Saying the team likely views him and wants to develop him in that role isn't lazy, it's common sense.

Statistically speaking there are More UDFAs then Draft Picks so of course theres probably better Gunners were found. 

Osgood was a True Gunner but Montell Owens was a Personal protector AKA the Guy in front of the Punter.  im not sure where davis Lined up on Special team. 

The Comparison to one of the games Best Gunners of modern times is a Lazy Comparison. just Because both are Big WRs ur going to say hes gonna be another osgood. odds are he wont be.   

Like i said theres a Reason why Lazard was an UDFA and that is because Big Possesion WRs who dont seperate arent liked in the NFL.  the teams are looking for faster guys.  sure we brought lazard in with some promise but guess what a promise he wont have any other UDFAs to compete with isnt much. 

Just so your aware some of the Leagues Best Corners happen to be Slot Guys like Chris Harris JR. i would argue Casey Heyward as well before he Moved to the Chargers. 

 

i found a Joke of a guy tho and he apparently writes for the US today. he says Chark is gonna Compete with Mickens for a roster Spot. thats beyond stupid.  

 

Lazard should be a PS guy. i watched Iowa State and i wasnt really impressed by him and his Lack of ability to Seperate.  remember Bortles struggles with Accuracy so having Guys who can Seperate is more vital then having a Redzone WR ala Benn. 

[LinderFournette]

Apparently the Jags didnt Say they wouldnt bring in more UDFA wrs as we did Sign Dorren Miller who was a WR from Carson-Newman. 

http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180429/at-least-13-undrafted-free-agents-headed-to-jaguars 

Quote

The 13-player group includes N.C. State guard/center Tony Adams (teammate of fourth-round pick Will Richardson), Miami teammates Dee Delaney (cornerback) and K.C. McDermott (left tackle) and three non-FBS players (N.C. Central linebacker Reggie Hunter, Jacksonville State linebacker Darius Jackson and Carson-Newman receiver Dorran Miller).

 

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

Dede did almost nothing last year to prove hes even better then Mickens so he should get a free pass because he was a 4th round pick?  Coughlins cut an earlier pick after 2 years and Minimal Production.  Dede is Just an average Undersized WR.   we dont need a Big Bodied WR on our roster. it would be different we didnt have speed to go with the smallness but cant you tell the NFL is all about winning with Seperation and Bortles tends to struggle throwing to guys who dont seperate very well.  Lazard is one of those guys who doesnt seperate well and doesnt have the quickness to get off press coverage.  BIG WRS are a dying breed. they arent very popular in the NFL anymore as evidenced by Lazard and Tate falling in the draft.  Im not gonna put expectations on him. sure ill give him a chance to compete but hes gonna have to shine on Special teams as it would be fairly obvious when put him into the game specifically in the redzone knowing the ball is either gonna go to him or ASJ.

 

to try to turn and compare him into an All-pro gunner cuz hes a big WR who played special teams is Lazy. 

I wouldn't say "big receivers" are a dying breed.  Big receivers who are slow as heck might be, but most teams still seriously covet size in a WR...so long as it comes with some speed.

With Lazard though...he doesn't have any speed.  Running a decent time at the combine doesn't reflect his play speed on the field.  I think the question is going to be, whether he can translate that combine 40-time to Special Teams duties or not.  If he can run like that and get downfield...that's going to be where it shows up.  'Cause he doesn't run like that as a WR, and he's going to be a niche player at best on offense as a result.

[JaguarCrazy2832]

I feel like everyone expected Moncrief to be gone after this year so i'd hate to cut bait with someone now so young and with potential. 

[Speedyg]

On 5/5/2018 at 10:44 PM, LinderFournette said:

Statistically speaking there are More UDFAs then Draft Picks so of course theres probably better Gunners were found. 

Osgood was a True Gunner but Montell Owens was a Personal protector AKA the Guy in front of the Punter.  im not sure where davis Lined up on Special team. 

The Comparison to one of the games Best Gunners of modern times is a Lazy Comparison. just Because both are Big WRs ur going to say hes gonna be another osgood. odds are he wont be.   

Like i said theres a Reason why Lazard was an UDFA and that is because Big Possesion WRs who dont seperate arent liked in the NFL.  the teams are looking for faster guys.  sure we brought lazard in with some promise but guess what a promise he wont have any other UDFAs to compete with isnt much. 

Just so your aware some of the Leagues Best Corners happen to be Slot Guys like Chris Harris JR. i would argue Casey Heyward as well before he Moved to the Chargers. 

 

i found a Joke of a guy tho and he apparently writes for the US today. he says Chark is gonna Compete with Mickens for a roster Spot. thats beyond stupid.  

 

Lazard should be a PS guy. i watched Iowa State and i wasnt really impressed by him and his Lack of ability to Seperate.  remember Bortles struggles with Accuracy so having Guys who can Seperate is more vital then having a Redzone WR ala Benn. 

Or perhaps more gunners are UDFAs because they are the bottom of the roster with no real position that they can start with but brings value in that role?

 That's what Lazard is, and will be for this team.  You're making it sound like Kassim was some freak amazing talented player that cannot be duplicated by someone like Lazard. He was undrafted for a reason, same with Lazard. ST is more about attitude and mentality, if Lazard brings it, he'll stick. If not, he won't. Regardless, the argument is that Lazard brings a dynamic to the receiving group that we don't have whereas Mickens competes with similarly skilled guys who can do the same things he does, and does other things possibly better than him. That's the argument here on why potentially Lazard can beat out Mickens.

Besides, I'm not sure "having guys who can separate" is the only solution to Blake's inaccuracies. It's true  in our current scheme that relies a lot on man beaters, but Blake's best statistical year (as far as output is concerned) was basically him YOLOING to guys who made acrobatic catches for him. 

So of our current receivers, Lazard brings high-pointing skills that only Moncrief can do. He's got size, which can help in run blocking, which we know our staff loves in receivers. And he's got the size/speed combo for ST that this staff wants.

Mickens  is not going to block in ST, and he's not going to tackle in ST due to his size, so he really only had one main role which gives him value, and that's as a PR guy.The issue is, if there's a roster crunch (which I'm sure there will given how competitive this roster is), the team can opt with just letting Lee/Chark compete in that role. There's also Wynn who the team brought back, and he's a similar type/skillset to Mickens, and keep in mind that Wynn was neck and neck (and at times ahead of Cole) during the pre-season. He's got an uphill climb just because of how redundant his skills are compared to our other receivers.

[Speedyg]

On 5/5/2018 at 10:50 PM, LinderFournette said:

Apparently the Jags didnt Say they wouldnt bring in more UDFA wrs as we did Sign Dorren Miller who was a WR from Carson-Newman. 

http://www.jacksonville.com/sports/20180429/at-least-13-undrafted-free-agents-headed-to-jaguars 

 

Don't know what to tell you man, but it was a quote from a Lazard interview immediately after he signed. If they did tell him they won't sign another receiver and they went and signed another guy, then it further reinforces that they wanted him to come here with a specific role in mind.

Kind of like how the Jags "promised" Osgood that he'd get to compete as a receiver, when anyone and everyone knew, they really wanted him for his ST ability, eh?

[LinderFournette]

2 hours ago, Speedyg said:

Or perhaps more gunners are UDFAs because they are the bottom of the roster with no real position that they can start with but brings value in that role?

 That's what Lazard is, and will be for this team.  You're making it sound like Kassim was some freak amazing talented player that cannot be duplicated by someone like Lazard. He was undrafted for a reason, same with Lazard. ST is more about attitude and mentality, if Lazard brings it, he'll stick. If not, he won't. Regardless, the argument is that Lazard brings a dynamic to the receiving group that we don't have whereas Mickens competes with similarly skilled guys who can do the same things he does, and does other things possibly better than him. That's the argument here on why potentially Lazard can beat out Mickens.

Besides, I'm not sure "having guys who can separate" is the only solution to Blake's inaccuracies. It's true  in our current scheme that relies a lot on man beaters, but Blake's best statistical year (as far as output is concerned) was basically him YOLOING to guys who made acrobatic catches for him. 

So of our current receivers, Lazard brings high-pointing skills that only Moncrief can do. He's got size, which can help in run blocking, which we know our staff loves in receivers. And he's got the size/speed combo for ST that this staff wants.

Mickens  is not going to block in ST, and he's not going to tackle in ST due to his size, so he really only had one main role which gives him value, and that's as a PR guy.The issue is, if there's a roster crunch (which I'm sure there will given how competitive this roster is), the team can opt with just letting Lee/Chark compete in that role. There's also Wynn who the team brought back, and he's a similar type/skillset to Mickens, and keep in mind that Wynn was neck and neck (and at times ahead of Cole) during the pre-season. He's got an uphill climb just because of how redundant his skills are compared to our other receivers.

Have u watched lazard run in pads and not underwear running?  Lazard certainly doesn't play as fast as his 40.   A slow big wr isn't something we need. You act like size is something u need to block but its not.  Blocking is an attitude thing look at Hines ward who certainly wasn't the biggest or smallest at 6 foot 1 210.

As much as I think Wynn is good mickens is better at returns and seems as good as a wr.

[Speedyg]

1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

Have u watched lazard run in pads and not underwear running?  Lazard certainly doesn't play as fast as his 40.   A slow big wr isn't something we need. You act like size is something u need to block but its not.  Blocking is an attitude thing look at Hines ward who certainly wasn't the biggest or smallest at 6 foot 1 210.

As much as I think Wynn is good mickens is better at returns and seems as good as a wr.

I have watched Lazard run, and no, he doesn't "play" fast. He's a long strider. So he looks slow and awkward running as a receiver, but long strides doesn't matter in ST if he can get down there. Size does matter in blocking. Cmon now. But getting a big guy who can run and can have the attitude and mentality to do so? That's your ace. 

And 6'0 210 lb WR is a good size for back when Hines played.

[LinderFournette]

5 hours ago, Speedyg said:

I have watched Lazard run, and no, he doesn't "play" fast. He's a long strider. So he looks slow and awkward running as a receiver, but long strides doesn't matter in ST if he can get down there. Size does matter in blocking. Cmon now. But getting a big guy who can run and can have the attitude and mentality to do so? That's your ace. 

And 6'0 210 lb WR is a good size for back when Hines played.

6 foot 1 210 isnt all that big for when Hines played.    speed Matters at gunner cuz with slow Gunners and a great punt there is huge potential for a good size return negating the great punt. 

 

look at arguebly the Best Gunner in the Current NFL and that is Slater from the Patriots or Cheatriots.  

http://www.nbcsports.com/boston/slater-explains-his-duties-punt-coverage-gunner

i dont like the idea of having a bigger WR who is fairly slow and lacks quickness trying to beat 2 guys down the field.  hes big enough to handle all the shoving but i dont think hes got the wheels to do it. 

[Tugboat]

On 07/05/2018 at 11:26 AM, Speedyg said:

I have watched Lazard run, and no, he doesn't "play" fast. He's a long strider. So he looks slow and awkward running as a receiver, but long strides doesn't matter in ST if he can get down there. Size does matter in blocking. Cmon now. But getting a big guy who can run and can have the attitude and mentality to do so? That's your ace. 

And 6'0 210 lb WR is a good size for back when Hines played.

Yeah.  Special Teams are exactly the place where a long-strider might be able to fully tap into their speed.

But at the same time...Lazard really doesn't even look like a classic long-strider/buildup speed guy.  He just looks...slow, in pads.  So it'll be interesting to see if he can be effective there.