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PapaShogun

2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

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I'm already looking ahead. Next year's defensive line class looks like a monster. EDGE defenders too. I'm guessing we won't be bad enough next year to get any of the top guys though.

AJ Brown looks cool. But yeah, receiver. We seem to have enough of those. 

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Edit - Here is the link to the running draft order. It's updated constantly and is fairly accurate from what I understand

http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

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Next year I expect we will need a running back, a TE, a FS, a SAM backer, and obviously an edge rusher. But with the way we went about this draft, obviously we won't draft any of these positions and draft a bunch of injured players for depth or trade up multiple times to get 'our guy' even if 'our guy' is in a position group where we actually have some depth. 

 

We aren't trying to make the playoffs, so that's fine right? Why bother filling holes on the roster? It's not like those holes will ultimately cause us to miss the playoffs *rolls eyes*

 

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/8276557-181/grant-cohn-49ers-multiple-draft?artslide=0&sba=AAS 

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, N4L said:

Next year I expect we will need a running back, a TE, a FS, a SAM backer, and obviously an edge rusher. But with the way we went about this draft, obviously we won't draft any of these positions and draft a bunch of injured players for depth or trade up multiple times to get 'our guy' even if 'our guy' is in a position group where we actually have some depth. 

 

We aren't trying to make the playoffs, so that's fine right? Why bother filling holes on the roster? It's not like those holes will ultimately cause us to miss the playoffs *rolls eyes*

 

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/8276557-181/grant-cohn-49ers-multiple-draft?artslide=0&sba=AAS 

Fill holes?  They added a WR which if we wanted them to sign a WR we cant be mad they drafred one.  It was their best chance to get a current replacement for Trent(not a full System fit) and future replacement for Joe Staley(ya know the guy who is 34).

Also got a LB who will play Mike while Foster is out but can play Sam as well.  Added CB depth(which we badly needed, probably much more than edge rusher).  They have taken care of some key positions since Shanahan and Lynch took over.  They are rebuilding while cleaning Baalke's mess.

Also Malcolm Smith, who thrived in this scheme before going for the money in oakland, is back.  Next year is far better in Edge rusher draft depth.

Last year's draft was good enough for people to at least wait a year before bringing our the pitchforks.  But guess I'm wrong.

You know what Drafting for need gets you?  Drafting for need gets you Denzyl Ward over Bradley Chubb.

Edited by DirtyJersey9er

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9 minutes ago, DirtyJersey9er said:

Fill holes?  They added a WR which if we wanted them to sign a WR we cant be mad they drafred one.  It was their best chance to get a current replacement for Trent(not a full System fit) and future replacement for Joe Staley(ya know the guy who is 34).

Also got a LB who will play Mike while Foster is out but can play Sam as well.  Added CB depth(which we badly needed, probably much more than edge rusher).  They have taken care of some key positions since Shanahan and Lynch took over.  They are rebuilding while cleaning Baalke's mess.

Also Malcolm Smith, who thrived in this scheme before going for the money in oakland, is back.  Next year is far better in Edge rusher draft depth.

Last year's draft was good enough for people to at least wait a year before bringing our the pitchforks.  But guess I'm wrong.

Just some quick responses to this. Good points on WR/McGlinchey. 

Warner is not a SAM. He's a WILL that can play MIKE. 

Only QB is ever more important than pass rusher, and certainly depth at any position is not more important than a starting edge rusher. But you're right - next year is better for that position. 

Malcolm Smith is coming back, but WILL was never a concern for that reason (even though most want to replace him anyway).

As for last year's draft earning goodwill...the EXACT same thing was said about the 2012 draft class, maybe even by you, after what appeared to be a stellar 2011 class. But most of that 2011 class either didn't develop further or killed their career in a variety of ways, and obviously the 2012 class was an epic fail. In any case, what a previous class did has no impact on how the current class will perform.

 

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47 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

Just some quick responses to this. Good points on WR/McGlinchey. 

Warner is not a SAM. He's a WILL that can play MIKE. 

Only QB is ever more important than pass rusher, and certainly depth at any position is not more important than a starting edge rusher. But you're right - next year is better for that position. 

Malcolm Smith is coming back, but WILL was never a concern for that reason (even though most want to replace him anyway).

As for last year's draft earning goodwill...the EXACT same thing was said about the 2012 draft class, maybe even by you, after what appeared to be a stellar 2011 class. But most of that 2011 class either didn't develop further or killed their career in a variety of ways, and obviously the 2012 class was an epic fail. In any case, what a previous class did has no impact on how the current class will perform.

 

People were way more positive about the 2012 draft than they are being about 2018.  Again maybe it's people worrying about another Baalke situation?  I think this is better than a Baalke draft by the basis of not fitting a square peg in a round hole.  But I was saying it's too soon for saying the sky is falling like some people are here.

I still feel like 2018 is similar to some of those early Carroll-era drafts where they went for the fits and it showed in how many starters they ended up drafting(especially later than Rounds 1 and 2).  Obviously a lot now depends on coaching and development as well.

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17 minutes ago, DirtyJersey9er said:

People were way more positive about the 2012 draft than they are being about 2018.  Again maybe it's people worrying about another Baalke situation?  I think this is better than a Baalke draft by the basis of not fitting a square peg in a round hole.  But I was saying it's too soon for saying the sky is falling like some people are here.

I still feel like 2018 is similar to some of those early Carroll-era drafts where they went for the fits and it showed in how many starters they ended up drafting(especially later than Rounds 1 and 2).  Obviously a lot now depends on coaching and development as well.

See, I don't think I ever saw Baalke trying to fit square pegs in round holes - I saw him as deeply lacking an understanding of value. He had to get his guys, value be damned. And the only value he knew to find were great prospects falling because of injury. That first year he did it (2013), it made sense. The only need we had coming off a Super Bowl appearance was FS. So we had the luxury of drafting guys like Carradine and Lattimore. But that became a yearly strategy. 

As for this class, depth is great, but we really needed to pull starters out of this class, given that we don't expect to pick as highly as this again. We got one in McGlinchey, but it was at a spot where we didn't necessarily need a starter. The rest were all depth/roleplayers when we have some really weak starters at SAM, LEO, and OG, and could really use redzone help. As good as Pettis might be, it is unlikely that he'll help out there (though it is nice the team had playmaker on their needs list). Now, we're basically at the same point we would have been next year, only with some depth at DB and WR. 

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8 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

See, I don't think I ever saw Baalke trying to fit square pegs in round holes - I saw him as deeply lacking an understanding of value. He had to get his guys, value be damned. And the only value he knew to find were great prospects falling because of injury. That first year he did it (2013), it made sense. The only need we had coming off a Super Bowl appearance was FS. So we had the luxury of drafting guys like Carradine and Lattimore. But that became a yearly strategy. 

As for this class, depth is great, but we really needed to pull starters out of this class, given that we don't expect to pick as highly as this again. We got one in McGlinchey, but it was at a spot where we didn't necessarily need a starter. The rest were all depth/roleplayers when we have some really weak starters at SAM, LEO, and OG, and could really use redzone help. As good as Pettis might be, it is unlikely that he'll help out there (though it is nice the team had playmaker on their needs list). Now, we're basically at the same point we would have been next year, only with some depth at DB and WR. 

As far as Guard goes I'm assuming they are hoping Garnett and his body makeover will make him a fit for their future plans at Guard.  It also says something about what has happened since the end of 2016 when we can only really list 3 needs.  Starting last winter that list was like 8 positions deep.

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I think going into Lynch/Shanny we expected it to take 2 years to purge while adding the base.  Jimmy's play and his effect on the team kinda rocketed expectations up.

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I do think it is fair to question just how much better we got for NEXT SEASON with this draft. McGlinchey is an upgrade over Brown in the run game, and a pretty big one, but can't you say he is just as big of a downgrade in pass protection? Pettis is going to be the starting punt returner in all likelihood so he will have a big impact there, but not sure how much he plays on offense. I do think Shanny finds ways to get him on the field and if there is an injury to Goodwin or Garcon, he will step right in. Fred Warner will start while Foster is suspended (which he will be), and may not relinquish his spot to Smith depending on how he plays. Moore is a project as Lynch stated and won't be playing much aside from STs. Sherman/Witherspoon are pretty much locks to start on the outside if healthy. DJ Reed could be the starting KR but no guarantee he beats out Williams in the slot. I'm giving him a better chance to do so than most though. Love Reed, may be my favorite pick of the draft. And then the rest of the draft we got either guys who will be on the IR or PS. Maybe aside from James who will compete with Taylor. 

 

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1 hour ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I do think it is fair to question just how much better we got for NEXT SEASON with this draft. McGlinchey is an upgrade over Brown in the run game, and a pretty big one, but can't you say he is just as big of a downgrade in pass protection? Gotta give McG at least preseason to tell if he's as bad in pass pro as Brown was in the run game, but his ability to play through injury is a value he has over Brown too. Pettis is going to be the starting punt returner in all likelihood so he will have a big impact there, but not sure how much he plays on offense. I do think Shanny finds ways to get him on the field and if there is an injury to Goodwin or Garcon, he will step right in. Agree, he said so in an interview that Pettis can do a little of what Pierre, Goodwin, and Taylor does but I doubt he gets more targets than any of them. Fred Warner will start while Foster is suspended (which he will be), and may not relinquish his spot to Smith depending on how he plays. I think Smith will have to stink it up for Warner to jump him, Warner is good but he's very raw still. I expect him to look more like Eric Reid did last year at backer than I would Foster. Moore is a project as Lynch stated and won't be playing much aside from STs. Very interested in him at corner still, he might be the best athlete on our roster and that could get him on the field sooner than we think. Sherman/Witherspoon are pretty much locks to start on the outside if healthy. DJ Reed could be the starting KR but no guarantee he beats out Williams in the slot. I'm giving him a better chance to do so than most though. Love Reed, may be my favorite pick of the draft. Mine too And then the rest of the draft we got either guys who will be on the IR or PS. Maybe aside from James who will compete with Taylor. 

 

I think Reed is the steal of draft, he might have some outside corner ability too. Warner I'm excited about but I dont know if he's a lock to start in Fosters absence. This draft while it isn't what I expected has given me some assurance that we added quality depth at DB and WR. Those two position groups and OL were lacking depth to me. 

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8 hours ago, N4L said:

Next year I expect we will need a running back, a TE, a FS, a SAM backer, and obviously an edge rusher. But with the way we went about this draft, obviously we won't draft any of these positions and draft a bunch of injured players for depth or trade up multiple times to get 'our guy' even if 'our guy' is in a position group where we actually have some depth. 

 

We aren't trying to make the playoffs, so that's fine right? Why bother filling holes on the roster? It's not like those holes will ultimately cause us to miss the playoffs *rolls eyes*

 

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/sports/8276557-181/grant-cohn-49ers-multiple-draft?artslide=0&sba=AAS 

Why even bother reading anything Grant Cohn writes? Dude is trash

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37 minutes ago, Ninerholic said:

Why even bother reading anything Grant Cohn writes? Dude is trash

I don't read anything with a 'Cohn' name attached. Not even on a slow day. Very unprofessional. 

The two Matts are my faves.

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I don't mind Grant Cohn. There are certain aspects of the game he knows more than others, but he certainly plays up his persona. Example, he said the 49ers killed it with the DJ Reed pick and gave it an A.....Then he writes this article and said Reed can't match up with the NFC West slot WRs so why was he picked?.....Wait a minute, you had just said that was a great pick and gave it an A....and then the next day you question it?

So yeah, he has a bit of Skip Bayless in him. Sometimes their persona gets to them and they end up contradicting themselves. 

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Posted (edited)

The injury picks aren’t  nearly as bad as the ones baalke was doing. He was using high picks on really obvious “no no’s” like lattimore, then doing it multiple times in a draft. People overreacting about the injury picks, don’t let failures of another. FO dictate how you pick.street is the only guy the expect to miss substantial time.  

 

I’m excited for next year but I’m concerned about some recent trends: How much they spend on their guys, seemingly different valuations of draft prospects compared to the majority (not inherently bad), and how saleh plans to address the pass rush.

 

but people had been pegging this as a really weak edge class and since we’re playing the long game, they might not have seen the point in reaching on an edge who wouldn’t be better or develop to be better than marsh, attachou and co. 

For next year I’m looking at Edge, WR, IOL, TE and RB

Edited by John232

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