2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)

[Chrissooner49er]

34 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

What are your thoughts on Ta'amu? Personally I thought he held back that offense and they would have a different season had Shea Patterson stayed. 

Also I think back to that one chart @oldman9er posted a while back that showed alignment of the top WRs. Metcalf was pretty much exclusively on the outside (and only one side), while AJ Brown was the slot and moved around more. I agree Brown was their #1 receiver. But that system did Metcalf no favors. Butler has terrible hands, and that simple trait is enough too have me put DK over him. 

Yes, Ta'amu may be athletic, but his decisions are bizarre and sometimes take too long. He definitely held back the O. Watching him again, I wonder if he is even drafted.

Butler does have some questionable hands, but so does Metcalf. I cannot see any reason to have Metcalf (or Butler, really) in the 1st round. But, if I have to choose one of them, it isn't Metcalf.

[Chrissooner49er]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

From DJ's recent mock draft:

If we are going Williams, then I would LOVE to somehow make a trade with the Raiders. 

Ugh! Just too darned redundant! Now if we can get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Armstead...then perhaps I can get behind that pick. PERHAPS.

[48 1/2ers]

24 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Yes, Ta'amu may be athletic, but his decisions are bizarre and sometimes take too long. He definitely held back the O. Watching him again, I wonder if he is even drafted.

Butler does have some questionable hands, but so does Metcalf. I cannot see any reason to have Metcalf (or Butler, really) in the 1st round. But, if I have to choose one of them, it isn't Metcalf.

I wouldnt draft Ta'amu either so I agree there but the hands on Butler pretty clearly worse than Metcalfs imo. Butlers are beyond questionable, they are bad. I do like seeing he's working with Megatron prior to the draft, maybe theres an improvement there to be had. 

[Fureys49ers]

37 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Ugh! Just too darned redundant! Now if we can get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Armstead...then perhaps I can get behind that pick. PERHAPS.

I understand your point, I really do. Only I don’t see it as redundancy for the simple fact that Armstead, DJ Jones, Solly, Day or whoever else we play at DT will never be able to bring to the table what QW could. And in a division with Seahawks, Gurley and DJ stopping the run is of the upmost importance. 

I also really like the idea of landing Winovich at the top of the 2nd to pair with Ford, Buckner and QW. That’s a scary DL against the run or pass. Still believe there are WRs who will be great value and talented enough to make an impact in the 3rd and a couple guys available at the top of the 4th early day 3 who can add valuable depth to our IOL struggles. Obviously in that scenario DBs are ignored outside of what we’ve done in FA with Ward and Verrett but I could live with that.

[Chrissooner49er]

41 minutes ago, Fureys49ers said:

I understand your point, I really do. Only I don’t see it as redundancy for the simple fact that Armstead, DJ Jones, Solly, Day or whoever else we play at DT will never be able to bring to the table what QW could. And in a division with Seahawks, Gurley and DJ stopping the run is of the upmost importance. 

I also really like the idea of landing Winovich at the top of the 2nd to pair with Ford, Buckner and QW. That’s a scary DL against the run or pass. Still believe there are WRs who will be great value and talented enough to make an impact in the 3rd and a couple guys available at the top of the 4th early day 3 who can add valuable depth to our IOL struggles. Obviously in that scenario DBs are ignored outside of what we’ve done in FA with Ward and Verrett but I could live with that.

Why spend another high pick for the IDL when the proper usage of Solomon Thomas is going to produce a similar effect? Just watch what Jonny Delmark is producing on YouTube. He's got some really good stuff going on over there. He may turn any of you into a Thomas believer with his film study.

[757-NINER]

Johnnydel is doing a great job with his vids but it isn't anything I didn't already know, nor most fans who study the game. The thing is Thomas at his best, doesn't provide what Williams does, nor the versatility. They're two distinctly different players with different strengths and weakness. As someone who pounded the table for Thomas, there are good players, very good players, and difference makers. If Thomas reaches his ceiling, he'll be a very good player who may reach a couple of Pro Bowls. IF QW reaches his ceiling, he is a HOF and probably one of the best to ever do it...HUGE difference.

[sherm]

5 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Johnnydel is doing a great job with his vids but it isn't anything I didn't already know, nor most fans who study the game. The thing is Thomas at his best, doesn't provide what Williams does, nor the versatility. They're two distinctly different players with different strengths and weakness. As someone who pounded the table for Thomas, there are good players, very good players, and difference makers. If Thomas reaches his ceiling, he'll be a very good player who may reach a couple of Pro Bowls. IF QW reaches his ceiling, he is a HOF and probably one of the best to ever do it...HUGE difference.

Man the overrating of QW has gotten out of hand. Has has the skill set to be a special player in the NFL...if he reaches his potential. But saying stuff like he could be a HOF before the man has even played a down seems crazy. Not to mention for all his talent he has only done it for ONE full time season in college. Don't care how bad or good a season he had u can't make a career assessment off 1 season.

[J-ALL-DAY]

20 minutes ago, sherm said:

Man the overrating of QW has gotten out of hand. Has has the skill set to be a special player in the NFL...if he reaches his potential. But saying stuff like he could be a HOF before the man has even played a down seems crazy. Not to mention for all his talent he has only done it for ONE full time season in college. Don't care how bad or good a season he had u can't make a career assessment off 1 season.

I didn't see no lies stated. If he does hit his ceiling than HOF is definitely possible. He’s not saying he's a sure bet HOFer. 

One year of great production to go along with his young age? Yeah, the potential is crazy with him. 

 

[Chrissooner49er]

42 minutes ago, sherm said:

Man the overrating of QW has gotten out of hand. Has has the skill set to be a special player in the NFL...if he reaches his potential. But saying stuff like he could be a HOF before the man has even played a down seems crazy. Not to mention for all his talent he has only done it for ONE full time season in college. Don't care how bad or good a season he had u can't make a career assessment off 1 season.

Preach it, sherm! I am usually skeptical of the potential career of any prospect who only has one year of production on their college resume. Yes, that includes my Alma mater's Kyler Murray. 12-14 games and that is all? I think QW should have stayed in school (and Kyler should have gone to MLB).

[757-NINER]

43 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I didn't see no lies stated. If he does hit his ceiling than HOF is definitely possible. He’s not saying he's a sure bet HOFer. 

One year of great production to go along with his young age? Yeah, the potential is crazy with him. 

 

Thank you. I don't see where I came close to calling him a HOF. I said his POTENTIAL is that of a HOF level player, if he ever reaches it.

Either ppl don't watch tape nor study the game or they just really don't want to even consider drafting another DT so they just write him off but his film is some of the best I've seen from a DT prospect...ever. His tape is better than Suh, who was as dominant of a DT as I've seen on the college level. But Suh was older and he was really a man amongst boys, using sheer force and physicality to maul O-Lineman. But he wasn't as technical refined as QW. QW can maul you for two plays, then on 3rd down, beat you with athleticism and quickness. Donald's tape was more impressive but Donald was a senior who had developed over the course of 4 years. And Donald wasn't the physical force Williams is. Not saying QW is better. Just that Donald isn't bull-rushing most OGs into the lap of the QB, down after down. He's beating you by being super quick and explosive and just being a nightmare as penetrator, slipping blocks.

I don't think ppl have grasped the fact that QW was a redshirt sophomore playing this year. This was his FIRST year as a starter and he DOMINATED. It didn't take him 4 year to develop like a Jeffery Simmons, who I really like by the way. The kid waited his turn behind talented guys like Payne and Allen, while he added weight to his frame. Then when he got his shot, he took off like a rocket. The guy wasnt on anybody's radar before the season. But his play was just too great to be ignored and he turn himself into a consensus Top 5 pick in one season. He will be 20 years old when he plays his first NFL game....think about that for a second. He hasn't even really developed his man strength yet. Imagine how much better he'll be 3 years from now? And that's the thing....as great as he was, there's STILL room for him to grow as a player. That's absurd to me to know a guy that dominant, that skilled, is still just scratching the surface. 

Edited April 16, 2019 by 757-NINER

[757-NINER]

21 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said:

Preach it, sherm! I am usually skeptical of the potential career of any prospect who only has one year of production on their college resume. Yes, that includes my Alma mater's Kyler Murray. 12-14 games and that is all? I think QW should have stayed in school (and Kyler should have gone to MLB).

What would be the point of him staying another year and dominating college again? In his first year as a starter, he showed that he not only belonged but that he should be considered one the best players in the game. QB is a different animal. You can stay and get better just with having another year experience, improving on certain aspects of development.

But as a DT, the only thing left to do if you're draft eligible is to step up to the pro ranks and continue to grow and improve against men, not boys. It makes no sense for him to stay another year and dominant yet again. He put enough on tape to where he can now step up to a superior level of competition and start the maturation process at that level.

[Ftn49]

6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Thank you. I don't see where I came close to calling him a HOF. I said his POTENTIAL is that of a HOF level player, if he ever reaches it.

Either ppl don't watch tape nor study the game or they just really don't want to even consider drafting another DT so they just write him off but his film is some of the best I've seen from a DT prospect...ever. His tape is better than Suh, who was as dominant of a DT as I've seen on the college level. But Suh was older and he was really a man amongst boys, using sheer force and physicality to maul O-Lineman. But he wasn't as technical refined as QW. QW can maul you for two plays, then on 3rd down, beat you with athleticism and quickness. Donald's tape was more impressive but Donald was a senior who had developed over the course of 4 years. And Donald wasn't the physical force Williams is. Not saying QW is better. Just that Donald isn't bull-rushing most OGs into the lap of the QB, down after down. He's beating you by being super quick and explosive and just being a nightmare as penetrator, slipping blocks.

I don't think ppl have grasped the fact that QW was a redshirt sophomore playing this year. This was his FIRST year as a starter and he DOMINATED. It didn't take him 4 year to develop like a Jeffery Simmons, who I really like by the way. The kid waited his turn behind talented guys like Payne and Allen, while he added weight to his frame. Then when he got his shot, he took off like a rocket. The guy wasnt on anybody's radar before the season. But his play was just too great to be ignored and he turn himself into a consensus Top 5 pick in one season. He will be 20 years old when he plays his first NFL game....think about that for a second. He hasn't even really developed his man strength yet. Imagine how much better he'll be 3 years from now? And that's the thing....as great as he was, there's STILL room for him to grow as a player. That's absurd to me to know a guy that dominant, that skilled, is still just scratching the surface. 

I understand where you are coming from... but, lol (game of thrones ism, everything before the but is a lie)... I still remember Jerry talking about how much more talented John Taylor was than him in every single way, size, speed, sheer athletic ability. John didn't have the want to though (and I'm not saying QW doesn't have the want to) but we might want to wait until he gets to his second contract at minimum before mentioning QW and HOF in the same sentence. Reggie Bush was thought to be that way too when he came out. 

[y2lamanaki]

Question:

Which prospect's ceiling is NOT a Hall of Fame-caliber ceiling?

When answering, consider the respective ceilings of players like Tom Brady and Antonio Brown coming out of college.

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, Ftn49 said:

I understand where you are coming from... but, lol (game of thrones ism, everything before the but is a lie)... I still remember Jerry talking about how much more talented John Taylor was than him in every single way, size, speed, sheer athletic ability. John didn't have the want to though (and I'm not saying QW doesn't have the want to) but we might want to wait until he gets to his second contract at minimum before mentioning QW and HOF in the same sentence. Reggie Bush was thought to be that way too when he came out.

AGAIN...his ceiling is that. He has to put in the work to reach it. Some ppl have a ceiling way higher than others. Some ppl turn out to have a much higher ceiling than anybody could have imagined. Some guy's ceiling turns out to be lower than expected. It's not an exact science, predicting potential greatness. That's where the intangibles come in like drive, work-ethic, competitive desire, injuries, etc. Just firmly my opinion when I say HOF-type ceiling...but I stand by it. His tape is fanstatic, which is why I put his ceiling where it is. His tape wasn't perfect or without areas of improvement but that is also why I placed his ceiling where I did. As much as I liked Thomas as a prospect, I did not have those same sentiments. With Thomas, it was more about projecting his potential as a edge player. Wasn't necessarily about the player he was when he was drafted, and him just improving on that skill-set.

Edited April 16, 2019 by 757-NINER

[y2lamanaki]

38 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Just firmly my opinion when I say HOF-type ceiling...but I stand by it.

Good. I would stand by it. All of us make predictions about a player's career on this forum. It's what makes the draft so fun and intriguing. Not even the greatest to ever do it get it right all the time, or even most of the time. So it's just fun to do. And it's fun when a guy you see has that potential has the amazing career to back it up. And if it's wrong - you just lose forum cred points that I assign to everyone in my head. Not really a high stakes game. But the reward...

 

...is also low.