Chrissooner49er Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 On 11/17/2018 at 2:40 AM, N4L said: He certainly has some nice tools. I didn't like his first step, it wasn't consistent enough. There were times he would fire off but he would go too far upfield and run himself out of the play. There were also times he dipped under and converted speed to power as you say. There were other times he just kind of stood there as the ball was snapped and I didn't see that many inside moves. I agree his hands need work, but like I said, the kid has some tools. He could very well become a consistent player, but right now I'm somewhat skeptical in the top 5. Seems like lots of times it's splash plays or bust for him. I'd rather just take Ed Oliver? That guy seems like he will be Aaron Donald and Warren Sapp rolled into one. Holy hell. He's a surefire all pro on the inside. I don't see how you can pass on that if it's there. Thomas is a sunk cost, trade him to the raiders after a year if you have to, whatever. Oliver and Buckner would be an all time pairing. Theyd both compliment each other so well. Then trade up for an edge guy like we did with Ruben. Sign Earl Thomas and another veteran corner and suddenly we would have a defense. Oliver might be the one guy worth passing on the top edge rusher for. Theres also a strong chance the raiders and gruden see Warren Sapp and just draft Oliver #1 overall. He's that good. Maybe Oliver somehow nets us bosa? One can hope. We don't need any more interior D-linemen. Even as good as Oliver is, we HAVE to build up the EXTERIOR/EDGE rush. It's non-existent. It's on life support it is so bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 14 hours ago, AustrianNiner said: And we have it! Absolutely think this team can beat the Bucs after the bye though. We can beat the Bucs, but I really don't like the matchup on cursory analysis. To beat the Bucs, you have to pick off the Bucs passes and rack up points on their terrible defense to keep up/put them away. They have the skill position horses to score a crapton when they aren't turning the ball over. As a defense, we are abysmal at taking the ball away. The worst in the NFL (outside of our glorious upcoming opponents). We prefer competant and punchless to the alternative as we can't deal with offensive skill punch. At all. And we don't punish incompetance. And while we'll get ours on offense, I have trouble seeing us put up the mid-to-upper 30s I think it's going to take to win that game. I think a continued elegant tank is more likely, as we slowly fail to match blow-for-blow. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 3 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: We don't need any more interior D-linemen. Even as good as Oliver is, we HAVE to build up the EXTERIOR/EDGE rush. It's non-existent. It's on life support it is so bad. I agree, but Oliver is the rare prospect that would superceed team needs. That guy is a true game wrecker. Go type in 'ed Oliver' in youtube and tell me he wouldn't be worth dumping Solomon Thomas for. I'm not advocating taking him over the best edge rusher on the board.. just that I would rather take Oliver in the top 5 rather than polite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 4 hours ago, Chrissooner49er said: We don't need any more interior D-linemen. Even as good as Oliver is, we HAVE to build up the EXTERIOR/EDGE rush. It's non-existent. It's on life support it is so bad. If you think that highly of Oliver, you just take him and figure it out. If you think he's aaron donald, which is a comp that you see thrown around quite a bit, I'm not passing that up. I see very limited bust potential with Oliver which is nice, though his pass rushing at this point is a projection. You dump Earl Mitchell, play Buck and Oliver on even base downs. The great thing about Oliver is that he would be a major benefit to Buckner as well; you couldn't double team him, which is a weakness that he has. Interior pass rushers can be highly disruptive just like edge rushers can be. While my preference would be to add an edge, I'm certainly not going to have an issue if we take Oliver or Williams. I would completely understand that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 43 minutes ago, N4L said: I agree, but Oliver is the rare prospect that would superceed team needs. That guy is a true game wrecker. Go type in 'ed Oliver' in youtube and tell me he wouldn't be worth dumping Solomon Thomas for. I'm not advocating taking him over the best edge rusher on the board.. just that I would rather take Oliver in the top 5 rather than polite Agreed. I mean, this is a guy that has been bandied about as a #1 overall pick since he was a freshman, and surprisingly, he's absolutely lived up to that throughout his college career. I wish Houston cut him loose in the pass rush game a little more (I believe they run a 2 gap scheme, whereas I think that he's a monster in a single gap scheme). Very good floor with Oliver. I have no issues if we take him. That would be a ferocious interior rush. Then you just try and work out the edge part of it. Trade for Justin Houston. Sign Dee Ford or Fowler, or whoever hits the market (a couple of them will). You can do both here in this scenario. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 1 hour ago, Forge said: If you think that highly of Oliver, you just take him and figure it out. If you think he's aaron donald, which is a comp that you see thrown around quite a bit, I'm not passing that up. I see very limited bust potential with Oliver which is nice, though his pass rushing at this point is a projection. You dump Earl Mitchell, play Buck and Oliver on even base downs. The great thing about Oliver is that he would be a major benefit to Buckner as well; you couldn't double team him, which is a weakness that he has. Interior pass rushers can be highly disruptive just like edge rushers can be. While my preference would be to add an edge, I'm certainly not going to have an issue if we take Oliver or Williams. I would completely understand that. We already have a logjam of picks and decent FA pickups at the interior. There is such a thing as 'too much' in a spot where only 2 can play. So, even if he is Aaron Donald, I still go EDGE over interior...ESPECIALLY if it is Bosa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrissooner49er Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 (edited) It won't matter how much talent is on the interior if we still have the lack of edge talent we have now...all the opposing Os will have to do is run bootlegs! Edited November 19, 2018 by Chrissooner49er clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said: We already have a logjam of picks and decent FA pickups at the interior. There is such a thing as 'too much' in a spot where only 2 can play. So, even if he is Aaron Donald, I still go EDGE over interior...ESPECIALLY if it is Bosa. Our logjam consists of largely rotational guys who don't rush the passer very well. These are not the same as what you would be drafting Williams or Oliver for. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 19, 2018 Share Posted November 19, 2018 17 minutes ago, Chrissooner49er said: It won't matter how much talent is on the interior if we still have the lack of edge talent we have now...all the opposing Os will have to do is run bootlegs! The 100% bootleg pass play game plan is a very common one, I know, but I'll take my chances. Plus, as I said in my original post, you still supplement this pick with an edge rusher through trade or free agency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John232 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 I wouldn’t hate the Oliver pick, but I’d only hate it if we never addressed at Edge in which case my hate gets directed to Thomas and Lynch. But Oliver would be also much money invested (eventually) into a DT tandem making 40 a year on averages but Oliver would also allow Buckner to move all over too, which Bucks has shown he already can do that and dominate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 15 minutes ago, John232 said: I wouldn’t hate the Oliver pick, but I’d only hate it if we never addressed at Edge in which case my hate gets directed to Thomas and Lynch. But Oliver would be also much money invested (eventually) into a DT tandem making 40 a year on averages but Oliver would also allow Buckner to move all over too, which Bucks has shown he already can do that and dominate The best part of the paying the two DT thing though is that they are separated by so many years (Buckner would be in his 4th when Oliver drafted) that the bulk of Buckner's extension and probably all of his guarantees would be gone by that point (I'm assuming that we extend him this year or next). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Well, if you want a DT pass rusher, than Williams is your guy. He is just insane. So quick and has multiple rush moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-ALL-DAY Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Just got back from a wedding so haven't seen any games today, but looks like Polite had another good game. At this point is there even a chance he lasts in the teens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said: Just got back from a wedding so haven't seen any games today, but looks like Polite had another good game. At this point is there even a chance he lasts in the teens? I don't think that he should. His flexibility is excellent and has that great first step. His counter is speed to spin, but it's a bit rough at this stage. Has at least one year of elite production against elite competition, which is more than can be said for a lot of the folks last year. Plus, he's going to test out of the gym on the ten-yard split and look decently good in drills in space. I think Clelin Farrell has the higher floor, but Polite's ceiling is going to be too much to fall too far. Without a real set of standout QBs, the pass rushers will go like hotcakes in much the same way last year's QB class did. Maybe fewer tradeups to get "your guy", but as we saw with the Saints this past year, pass rushers are highly valued enough on a rookie contract to inspire similar behavior. Edited November 25, 2018 by JIllg Added further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sherm Posted November 25, 2018 Share Posted November 25, 2018 As long as we come away with a guy with an elite pass rushing skill set I'm good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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