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2019 Draft Talk (Draft Order in OP)


TecmoSuperJoe

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3 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Watched a bit of Burns this morning, and had some thoughts. MANNY LAWSON, but probably with even better short area burst. 

I say that with some affection, because I really like Manny, but Burns is not a complete DE coming out. Rookies of course are going to need some work in varying deficiencies, but I feel like we shouldn't want to wait while fixing his. Definitely not in early 1st rd. He's young and can eventually get stronger, of course, but he has some flaws that push him out of the top 20. (probably in that same area Manny got drafted) Long and lanky, and right away, can tell he would rarely win on working back inside against pro OL. 

That 0-60 burst?  :x .. very impressive. I'm eager to see his 10 and 20 yard splits come Combine time. He even has some bend and dip, so there's a lot of good to work with. 

I like a lot about his game, but I feel we need an instant starter that doesn't have significant holes to his game. Guess I may die on this "need strength" mountain. :P 

 

Meh, I say he's more Leonard Floyd than Manny Lawson. He plays with much more functional strength than Lawson did at the college level. I was just watching his tape against Bama from 2017 about a week ago and noticed how he held his ground pretty well for a guy his size when he was one-on-one with the OT. But he can be moved off his spot too often so yeah, a professional strength and conditioning program will serve him well. But Ive as stated numerous times before, he's the most gifted and natural pass-rusher in this draft. He has a array of moves and he has a good sense/timing in how he ties his hands with his footwork to get blockers off-balance or leaning. And he incorporates counters into his game, which I think puts him above guys like Allen in terms of pass-rushing.

And you say he has 'some' bend....I say 'elite' bend. He doesn't always use it but I've seen him really go around and under OTs to the point they barely touch him. With his length, its what really makes him unique.

The thing with Burns is he's going to need work...but man, the potential is there for him to be DOMINATE at the next level. He has everything but bulk. The moves, the length, athleticism and burst...he could be special if he can get up to about 245 lbs w/o sacrificing any if his speed/burst. And I think he will...

Edited by 757-NINER
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20 hours ago, oldman9er said:

Watched a bit of Burns this morning, and had some thoughts. MANNY LAWSON, but probably with even better short area burst. 

I say that with some affection, because I really like Manny, but Burns is not a complete DE coming out. Rookies of course are going to need some work in varying deficiencies, but I feel like we shouldn't want to wait while fixing his. Definitely not in early 1st rd. He's young and can eventually get stronger, of course, but he has some flaws that push him out of the top 20. (probably in that same area Manny got drafted) Long and lanky, and right away, can tell he would rarely win on working back inside against pro OL. 

That 0-60 burst?  :x .. very impressive. I'm eager to see his 10 and 20 yard splits come Combine time. He even has some bend and dip, so there's a lot of good to work with. 

I like a lot about his game, but I feel we need an instant starter that doesn't have significant holes to his game. Guess I may die on this "need strength" mountain. :P 

 

Then sounds like its Nick Bosa or bust? lol

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1 hour ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Then sounds like its Nick Bosa or bust? lol

Haha, you tease.. but I am dubious of the Bosa or bust concept.

I'm still eager to see more of some early favorites, like Ferrell, and even day 2 guys like Omenihu or Brailford. There could be a combo of FA + Draft additions that work well. Really does seem like a good draft class for needing edge help. 

I don't feel like Ferrell (at this point) is more of a reach at #2 than Josh Allen. (I'd say less) Trading down is not an unpleasant thought either, but not out of the top 10-12 unless the compensation is crazy good.  :) 

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11 minutes ago, oldman9er said:

Haha, you tease.. but I am dubious of the Bosa or bust concept.

I'm still eager to see more of some early favorites, like Ferrell, and even day 2 guys like Omenihu or Brailford. There could be a combo of FA + Draft additions that work well. Really does seem like a good draft class for needing edge help. 

I don't feel like Ferrell (at this point) is more of a reach at #2 than Josh Allen. (I'd say less) Trading down is not an unpleasant thought either, but not out of the top 10-12 unless the compensation is crazy good.  :) 

I FEEL like Ferrell after Bosa is the most complete DE out of the rest of them but guess I'm a bit worried about his initial burst. Maybe he's a poor man's version of Demarcus Lawrence?

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3 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

I FEEL like Ferrell after Bosa is the most complete DE out of the rest of them but guess I'm a bit worried about his initial burst. Maybe he's a poor man's version of Demarcus Lawrence?

Yup. Not the top edge rusher when it comes to initial burst off, but a pretty complete option behind Bosa since they can easily win with power also. 

Though he's no chump on burst either! :P 

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4 hours ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

I FEEL like Ferrell after Bosa is the most complete DE out of the rest of them but guess I'm a bit worried about his initial burst. Maybe he's a poor man's version of Demarcus Lawrence?

I actually like Ferrell better than Bosa. I actually said this earlier in the college season, in this same thread. I think his burst is underrated and he can sure win with power. Reminds me ALOT of Aldon when it comes to the later. He's just not as fluid of an a athlete as you would covet on the edge but I think he has plenty in his bag of tricks to win against most OTs, one-on-one. Plays stiff at times but thats when I go back to the Aldon comparison because Aldon was stiff and didn't display much bend if at all. But he found his niche as power rusher and used his length to just maul OTs. He built counters into his game based off his power, which allowed him to win in other ways. That's what I envision for Ferrell. 

Edited by 757-NINER
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50 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I actually like Ferrell better Bosa. I actually said this earlier in the college season, in this same thread. I think his burst is underrated and he can sure win with power. Reminds me ALOT of Aldon when it comes to the later. He's just not as fluid of an a athlete as you would covet on the edge but I think he's has plenty in his bag of tricks to win against most OTs, one-on-one. Plays stiff at times but thats when I go back to the Aldon comparison because Aldon was stiff and didn't display much bend if at all. But he found his niche as power rusher and used his length to just maul OTs. He built counters into his game based off his power, which allowed him to win in other ways. That's what I envision for Ferrell. 

I had Ferrell as my edge1 last year, and he did nothing this past season to disprove that. This class just has so much firepower at his position that he's going to be closely compared and debated with a lot of guys. 

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14 minutes ago, 48 1/2ers said:

so who do you like at pick 2?

Don't know man don't know....To be determined with me. 

You can sell me on quite a few players at #2. Trust me, I wouldn't be mad at all if we took Polite at #2, just that I would be a bit disappointed we couldn't trade out of the pick and accumulated more picks and STILL draft him later in the top 10. 

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10 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Don't know man don't know....To be determined with me. 

You can sell me on quite a few players at #2. Trust me, I wouldn't be mad at all if we took Polite at #2, just that I would be a bit disappointed we couldn't trade out of the pick and accumulated more picks and STILL draft him later in the top 10. 

With what little time I have given to look into Polite, I must say, I have liked what I see. Not sure how he literally measures out, but I expect him at the Combine, and he's definitely next on my list for a closer look. 

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Honestly, there are a few guys I would be ok with@2 if you absolutely have no ability to trade back. I'd be happy with Ferrell or Burns@2, even though I have concerns with both players. I'd be happy with Allen at 2 also because I see the position versatility with him, even though I'm not sold on him as a upper echelon sack guy@the next level. As most know, I'd be very happy with Williams@2. Even Polite I'd be ok with. Now that would be HORRIBLE value for alot of those guys but I want them to get the guy they feels transform this defense and is the best talent/fit for this team. Now I'm almost certain that if they really liked a guy like Burns, they could work a trade down. But if somehow they couldn't and a guy like Burns or Polite was unequivocally the player they really want, you take him a pray your evaul was spot-on. Teams never value prospects the same....Im sure we'd be surprised at what prospects are listed where on different team's big board.

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1 hour ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

 

I hate the idea of liking / disliking a guy because of comparable numbers to another player. It doesn't take into account so many variables that it's not really a legit way to look into things. I mean, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his career in college, and a whopping 21 tackles for loss. Sometimes, guys figure it out, sometimes they don't. Sometimes, there's really no rhyme or reason readily apparent for why someone succeeds and another does not. 

I like Allen; I still have concerns on where he plays at the next level, but as a prospect, he's very good. I'm still holding out hope for Bosa, and I've even said it before that I'd be willing to give up some things in a trade just to swap picks with AZ to get that #1 pick and take Bosa. If we miss Bosa, I'm definitely not locked into Allen at #2. I'm very open to trading down. I'm open to taking Williams. I like Allen, but he's not a generational prospect or anything. 

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2 minutes ago, Forge said:

I hate the idea of liking / disliking a guy because of comparable numbers to another player. It doesn't take into account so many variables that it's not really a legit way to look into things. I mean, Danielle Hunter had 4.5 sacks in his career in college, and a whopping 21 tackles for loss. Sometimes, guys figure it out, sometimes they don't. Sometimes, there's really no rhyme or reason readily apparent for why someone succeeds and another does not. 

I like Allen; I still have concerns on where he plays at the next level, but as a prospect, he's very good. I'm still holding out hope for Bosa, and I've even said it before that I'd be willing to give up some things in a trade just to swap picks with AZ to get that #1 pick and take Bosa. If we miss Bosa, I'm definitely not locked into Allen at #2. I'm very open to trading down. I'm open to taking Williams. I like Allen, but he's not a generational prospect or anything. 

Agreed. At first, I was all about Allen at #2 but the more i watch him play I worry about him..especially after watching Brian Burns' highlights. Burns looks to have more pass rushing moves than Allen. I mean Allen could always develop but sometimes what you see is what youget. I was never on the Ferrell train but I think I'm slowly going to hop on. He doesn't have the elite burst but I could see Demarcus Lawrence 2.0 in him but again like you said if Bosa is gone, I want a trade down. 

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