Forge Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 17 minutes ago, JIllg said: I'd really like to hear folk's opinions on this year's second-third round big cornerbacks. Amani Oruwariye v. Michael Jackson v. Trayvon Mullen (or choose your own horse to argue for) Someone mentioned him in the draft forum, and I agree, Justin Layne. 6'3, former wide receiver. Has room to grow as he only played two years at corner, has ball skills as a former wide out. Familiar with zone principles from playing at msu. Seems like a great fit for us specifically. Not sure if he's declared yet, or he will, but someone I'm keeping an eye on (the only thing I have seen regarding him declaring is from a rather unreliable source stating that he was leaning toward coming out and skipping the bowl game) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 10 minutes ago, Forge said: Someone mentioned him in the draft forum, and I agree, Justin Layne. 6'3, former wide receiver. Top of the third may be a little early, but I like him. Has room to grow as he only played two years at corner, has ball skills as a former wide out. Familiar with zone principles from playing at msu. Seems like a great fit for us specifically. Not sure if he's declared yet, or he will, but someone I'm keeping an eye on Good call. I really like Layne's arms, he affects the ball a lot, even when a little out of position. Worried about him in man a bit (he has trouble turning his head and makes a lot of flaggable contact, though also makes a good share of plays on the ball in return). But, as you said, I really like the fit in our scheme. He had one rep in what looked like cover three last year against D.J. Moore where Moore tried to put the double move on him and Layne reacted, recovered, ate the ball up and should have had a pick. To be fair, the throw wasn't too hot, but hey, not Layne's fault. His body looks Richard Shermanish, which is visually pleasing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, JIllg said: Good call. I really like Layne's arms, he affects the ball a lot, even when a little out of position. Worried about him in man a bit (he has trouble turning his head and makes a lot of flaggable contact, though also makes a good share of plays on the ball in return). But, as you said, I really like the fit in our scheme. He had one rep in what looked like cover three last year against D.J. Moore where Moore tried to put the double move on him and Layne reacted, recovered, ate the ball up and should have had a pick. To be fair, the throw wasn't too hot, but hey, not Layne's fault. His body looks Richard Shermanish, which is visually pleasing. Yeah, and who better to help progress a guy like Layne then a former wide receiver to corner convert who also happens to be one of the better and smarter corners of the last decade. Just seems like a really good match all around, so he's a guy I really like. Definitely still a bit raw, but when we are looking in rounds 3/4 and the like at corners, I think that is typically what you are going to get unless it's specifically a slot corner, who will usually fall that far because of physical limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 1 minute ago, Forge said: Yeah, and who better to help progress a guy like Layne then a former wide receiver to corner convert who also happens to be one of the better and smarter corners of the last decade. Just seems like a really good match all around, so he's a guy I really like. Definitely still a bit raw, but when we are looking in rounds 3/4 and the like at corners, I think that is typically what you are going to get unless it's specifically a slot corner, who will usually fall that far because of physical limitations. Well, and guys will fall that far because of scheme suitability. We're running this scheme in part because we hope to vaccuum up guys like him - a bit raw and big and lacking the super quick times and hips of the dudes some other teams are going to have really high on their boards but can be quite effective if taught properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted December 12, 2018 Share Posted December 12, 2018 Just now, JIllg said: Well, and guys will fall that far because of scheme suitability. We're running this scheme in part because we hope to vaccuum up guys like him - a bit raw and big and lacking the super quick times and hips of the dudes some other teams are going to have really high on their boards but can be quite effective if taught properly. Talking to the choir mostly and reiterating your point, but still. XP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 18 hours ago, Forge said: Just throwing it out there, but if I'm the 49ers, I Feel like I may press the Bengals hard about AJ Green this off season. He's a free agent after this season, and already 30 and coming off his injury, but I think I don't hate the idea of trying to parlay our second rounder into a deal for him. I think that would be a home run. We'd have to get him an extension, but I think I'm willing to take that chance all around. The Bengals can't seriously feel comfortable with where they are at as a team. Seems like they may be in line to do some major changes to the staff, possibly the roster. Maybe it's just better for them if they try and and acquire value back for him and do a silent re-tooling. A second rounder for a 30 year old receiver with injury problems? I hate the idea. This team needs to get more younger defensive help through the draft. A second round pick when the team is going to be picking potentially at the top is just too valuable. I'd be fine heading into next season with Goodwin, Pettis, and Bourne as the top guys really. Then Kittle is there. Goodwin is an injury concern though. Anyway, I'd hope the 49ers just look for some whatever veteran elsewhere for depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 8 hours ago, PapaShogun said: A second rounder for a 30 year old receiver with injury problems? I hate the idea. This team needs to get more younger defensive help through the draft. A second round pick when the team is going to be picking potentially at the top is just too valuable. I'd be fine heading into next season with Goodwin, Pettis, and Bourne as the top guys really. Then Kittle is there. Goodwin is an injury concern though. Anyway, I'd hope the 49ers just look for some whatever veteran elsewhere for depth. I think it depends on what we are doing with that second rounder. I agree that more defensive help would make sense, and obviously I'm perfectly fine if we go that route. But a lot of people are also looking at that spot and thinking about targeting a receiver. A lot of mocks have us going wide receiver in the first three rounds, a lot of people on here have commented about a wide receiver in the second round or so as well. If that is the case, I think I'd rather make the play on Green rather than draft the receiver. Money isn't an issue, he's a great receiver. Sure, his shelf life may only be 4 years or something, but truthfully, I think this receiving corps (not Kittle) lacks consistent playmaking ability right now. Obviously, Pettis could be that dude, but I can't count on that as of yet. Goodwin is up and down, plagued by injuries, and Bourne is a nice depth piece, but that's all he is in my opinion. He's not a guy I want carrying serious snap percentages at the Z or X position. The problem is, I really detest the way we have handled free agency, and "whatever veteran depth" just seems like exactly what we have done so far under this regime. I just want players, you know? It's really hard to keep up with the rams when they have some serious top shelf talent and we are basically acquiring "veteran depth" with guys like Cooper, Smith, Sneezy, etc etc etc or good, but niche role players (Juice, and possibly McKinnon tbh). We simply don't have the upper echelon talent in my opinion. Especially when we have as much money as we do (should be over 100m with roll over I'm pretty sure?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted December 13, 2018 Author Share Posted December 13, 2018 24 minutes ago, Forge said: I think it depends on what we are doing with that second rounder. I agree that more defensive help would make sense, and obviously I'm perfectly fine if we go that route. But a lot of people are also looking at that spot and thinking about targeting a receiver. A lot of mocks have us going wide receiver in the first three rounds, a lot of people on here have commented about a wide receiver in the second round or so as well. If that is the case, I think I'd rather make the play on Green rather than draft the receiver. Money isn't an issue, he's a great receiver. Sure, his shelf life may only be 4 years or something, but truthfully, I think this receiving corps (not Kittle) lacks consistent playmaking ability right now. Obviously, Pettis could be that dude, but I can't count on that as of yet. Goodwin is up and down, plagued by injuries, and Bourne is a nice depth piece, but that's all he is in my opinion. He's not a guy I want carrying serious snap percentages at the Z or X position. The problem is, I really detest the way we have handled free agency, and "whatever veteran depth" just seems like exactly what we have done so far under this regime. I just want players, you know? It's really hard to keep up with the rams when they have some serious top shelf talent and we are basically acquiring "veteran depth" with guys like Cooper, Smith, Sneezy, etc etc etc or good, but niche role players (Juice, and possibly McKinnon tbh). We simply don't have the upper echelon talent in my opinion. Especially when we have as much money as we do (should be over 100m with roll over I'm pretty sure?) I wouldn't hate adding Green. Wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Jimmy would get another weapon. Our receivers were struggling to get open early in the season at times. I just think he's on the downside of his career. Now he's coming off toe surgery. Just reeks of another disappointment signing. Especially if you're giving up a 2nd. I understand wanting playmakers though instead of the Malcolm Smiths' of the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudyZ Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 17 minutes ago, PapaShogun said: I wouldn't hate adding Green. Wouldn't be the worst thing ever. Jimmy would get another weapon. Our receivers were struggling to get open early in the season at times. I just think he's on the downside of his career. Now he's coming off toe surgery. Just reeks of another disappointment signing. Especially if you're giving up a 2nd. I understand wanting playmakers though instead of the Malcolm Smiths' of the world. Just let him play out his contract and prove he's back healthy, then we can throw free agent money at him. We're still rebuilding. We could use that second rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMfan909 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 Justin Layne is the best CB in this draft. MSU put out Dennard and Waynes to WAY more hype, Layne will be better. I would absolutely take him at the top of the second and think he's going to blow up at the combine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UofMfan909 Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 4:00 PM, JIllg said: Well, and guys will fall that far because of scheme suitability. We're running this scheme in part because we hope to vaccuum up guys like him - a bit raw and big and lacking the super quick times and hips of the dudes some other teams are going to have really high on their boards but can be quite effective if taught properly. I don't think Layne is raw. The WR skills just add to his ceiling. MSU had an offense that was bottom three of all P5 schools. He was constantly on the field, against the top receiver on the other team, and played well vs several good offenses (Michigan, OSU, Purdue (dominant), Nebraska, Penn St) late into the game. I am all-in on this kid and basically logged into FF to be his hype man when I saw a tweet that he declared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 15 minutes ago, UofMfan909 said: I don't think Layne is raw. The WR skills just add to his ceiling. MSU had an offense that was bottom three of all P5 schools. He was constantly on the field, against the top receiver on the other team, and played well vs several good offenses (Michigan, OSU, Purdue (dominant), Nebraska, Penn St) late into the game. I am all-in on this kid and basically logged into FF to be his hype man when I saw a tweet that he declared. A Michigan fan becoming the hype man for a Michigan State player?? Unprecedented. He must be good? Don't hype him up so much so we can't get him in the 3rd/4th, like @ConvenientTruth did with Joe Flacco. Welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
757-NINER Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 On 12/12/2018 at 3:28 PM, JIllg said: I'd really like to hear folk's opinions on this year's second-third round big cornerbacks. Amani Oruwariye v. Michael Jackson v. Trayvon Mullen (or choose your own horse to argue for) Well being the UVA football homer I am, I'll throw Tim Harris, Jr name in there as well. 6' 2, 210lbs. Has had season-ending injuries to his shoulder and wrist very early in consecutive seasons so he's a little older than most but he's well versed in playing off-man and press-man, which is a must in our scheme. Alot will depend on how he runs but he has tools and the ball-skills to be a great find in a scheme like ours. Won't talk about Bryce Hall because I'm praying he comes back for his senior year but he's the best CB in country no one knows about and has legit 1st round talent and ability. And just to keep it all UVA, all the time, Juan Thornhill should definitely be on our radar at FS or CB. Has played CB and safety and could play both in the pros but I think he could be more of a game-changer@FS with his range. Been a impact player and starter since his sophomore year. I think he's the most versatile DB in the country. Ball-skills, tackling, man-coverage, playing in space....kid can do it all. If we had a dominant pass-rusher, he could have a monster year but he was still one of the best DBs in the country.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 11 hours ago, UofMfan909 said: I don't think Layne is raw. The WR skills just add to his ceiling. MSU had an offense that was bottom three of all P5 schools. He was constantly on the field, against the top receiver on the other team, and played well vs several good offenses (Michigan, OSU, Purdue (dominant), Nebraska, Penn St) late into the game. I am all-in on this kid and basically logged into FF to be his hype man when I saw a tweet that he declared. Always ready to hear from folks that have more knowledge than my limited film background. Excited for this year's class on the boundary corner front. I think we're going to have a variety of interesting options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIllg Posted December 15, 2018 Share Posted December 15, 2018 1 hour ago, 757-NINER said: Well being the UVA football homer I am, I'll throw Tim Harris, Jr name in there as well. 6' 2, 210lbs. Has had season-ending injuries to his shoulder and wrist very early in consecutive seasons so he's a little older than most but he's well versed in playing off-man and press-man, which is a must in our scheme. Alot will depend on how he runs but he has tools and the ball-skills to be a great find in a scheme like ours. Won't talk about Bryce Hall because I'm praying he comes back for his senior year but he's the best CB in country no one knows about and has legit 1st round talent and ability. And just to keep it all UVA, all the time, Juan Thornhill should definitely be on our radar at FS or CB. Has played CB and safety and could play both in the pros but I think he could be more of a game-changer@FS with his range. Been a impact player and starter since his sophomore year. I think he's the most versatile DB in the country. Ball-skills, tackling, man-coverage, playing in space....kid can do it all. If we had a dominant pass-rusher, he could have a monster year but he was still one of the best DBs in the country.... I legitimately have not reviewed tape of Tim Harris, Jr. yet, thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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