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Mind Character

The 53, Needs, & Tough Roster Decisions Ahead

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Posted (edited)

What the Roster Is Vs. Isn't:

The good news is that we have thoroughly uplifted the talent and within-position competition for this roster in ways that will have us compete and stay in ball games throughout the entirety of the season. However, those that expect this team to strongly compete for 7-8 wins given our grueling schedule will be in for a rude awakening come the start of the season.

I expect this team to be a 5-6 win team, and if we do so given our schedule so long as we compete in games and young players play well, it will be an enjoyable and fruitful season. If a lot of things come to fruition (Myles and Ogbah stay healthy, Coleman and Hubbard play well, Ogunjobi and Brantley/Coley elevate their game, Denzel Ward plays like the number 4 pick, our other CBs play well, Jabrill takes another step as a SS, Damarious Randall plays well at FS, Josh Gordon stays clean and healthy, David Njoku stays healthy and has improved... then I could definitely see this team being an 8-win team no question...

Roster Weakness/Question Marks:

DT/NT: As much as I love Larry Ogunobi, we still need a force up the middle that can provide both stout run stuffing power, but also provide a serious pass rushing threat. This will likely be the direction we go in next year's draft, but the combo of Trevon Coley and Jamie Meder did not get it done last year. In an ideal scenario, Brantley steps up as he is the ideal NT who is a better run stuffer than pass rusher, but provides enough juice in the pass rush to be a serious wrecking force against potent offenses. We really need Larry and Caleb to step up.

TE: Count me as one of the individuals that hopes we can target a UDFA or veteran cut from another team to bring in another pass catching TE as I don't really believe in DeValve's impact in the event that Njoku goes down for a bit. Seth is serviceable, but he lacks any quick twitch and quick/explosive route running ability. There will be someone available by the time of 53-man roster cuts... hopefully this somebody has longer term starter upside. Daniel Fells was a really good signing... better than most understand... he does it all and does it at a solid level.

LT/OL: Hopefully, UDFA Desmond Harrison can prove to be a viable option as he has all the traits one desires in a developmental LT with potential pro-bowl upside. The only question is will he work at it. I don't think Austin Corbett has the kick step athleticism to deal with pass rushers off the edge (Just watch the tape of him versus Myles Garrett in college); however, Corbett has pro-bowl ability at center or guard and likely can replace Tretter if he doesn't elevate his game or can replace Zeitler if his game falls off a cliff. Our line becomes a different force if both Chris Hubbard can hold it down on the right-side and Spencer Drango can prove to be an even better guard via skills development between last season and this one. Can Shon Coleman prove to be the LT of the future? I like his grit and toughness, but I ultimately think he's too stiff hipped and stiff in the ankles to move how he needs to in order to be effective. It will be interesting to see if a player falls off another roster that can help us here.

FS: No more King Kai Nacua... who's going to be a viable FS2 if Randall struggles or goes down for some time? Is it BBC? Is it Currie? This is a position where we need to target other teams' rosters and UDFA pool to create impact depth. UDFA Elijah Campbell from Northern Iowa has long-term starter impact based on his tape... he's a willing and forceful tackler and has natural ball skills. If he's a relentless worker he could be a really good player at FS if Randall doesn't make the impact we expect.

DE: I liked the Chris Smith signing as it gives us some juice and edge-setting strength, but Carl Nassib/Nate Orchard types have proven ineffective at creating a force and/or steady production off the edge. Is there a veteran that can help us here? I'd say a late camp addition Free Agent or late roster cut due to salary demands may help us boost the position's strength. Outside of additions, our defense's success all really comes down to 1. Can Myles and Emmanuel stay healthy? and 2. Can Ogbah raise his level of play as a  pass rusher? ... if those things happen, there's outside chance that this defense is a special one and we truly win 7 games. We'll see what we have with Chad Thomas... he's a power player whose pass rushing impact may be limited. He will provide good depth and has the hands and powerful punch to kick inside to provide length and burst in the interior pass rush.

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The First 53 Projection

**** As talent falls off other rosters, I expect the bottom of our roster to look much different and the defensive and offensive number of players kept to more equalize. Until then, this is an exercise to give a picture of what our roster could look like based on the best talent that I see on the roster at this time.****

The Browns 53-man roster breaks down as follows:

Offense (27)

Quarterbacks (3):

QB: Tyrod Taylor // Drew Stanton // Baker Mayfield

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Running Backs (3):

RB: Carlos Hyde // Nick Chubb // Duke Johnson // Practice Squad: Matthew Dayes

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Fullback (1):

FB: Danny Vitale;

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Wide Receivers (6):

WR1: Josh Gordon // Antonio Callaway

WR2: Corey Coleman // Jeff Janis // Damion Ratley

Slot-WR: Jarvis Landry // (Duke Johnson)

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Tight Ends (3):

TE: David Njoku // Daniel Fells // Seth DeValve

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Offensive Linemen (10):

LT: Shon Coleman // Desmond Harrison

LG: Joel Bitonio // Austin Corbett

C: J.C. Tretter // Austin Reiter

RG: Kevin Zeitler // Spencer Drango

RT: Chris Hubbard // Donald Stephenson

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Defense (23)

Defensive linemen (9):

DE: Myles Garrett // Chris Smith

NT: Trevon Coley // Jamie Meder

DT: Larry Ogunjobi // Caleb Brantley

DE: Emmanuel Ogbah // Chad Thomas // Carl Nassib

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Linebackers (5):

SLB: Christian Kirksey

MLB: Joe Schobert // Genard Avery

WLB: Jamie Collins Sr. // James Burgess 

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Corner Backs (6):

CB: Denzel Ward // Terrance Mitchell

CB: T.J. Carrie // E.J. Gaines // Howard Wilson // Practice Squad: Simeon Thomas

NCB: Briean Boddy-Calhoun

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Free Safeties (2):

FS: Damarious Randall // Elijah Campbell // (Briean Boddy-Calhoun)

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Strong Safeties (2):

SS: Jabrill Peppers // Derrick Kindred

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Specialists (3)

Kicker (1): Zane Gonzalez; 

Punter (1):Britton Colquitt;

Long snapper (1):Charley Hughlett

Edited by Mind Character

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One of the better rosters in the league going forward, in my opinion.

Definitely some key holes still to fill, but when compared to the average NFL roster, we have a lot of impact players and star power (Myles, Gordon, Ward, and a few pro bowl level candidates) if things go as planned/character concerns don’t show up.

If you assume Baker plays like a #1 overall pick QB, we should be competing at the very top level in the coming years.

This is about as good a situation as a drafted #1 overall QB could hope for from an 0-16 team.

It would be nice to have Joe Thomas, but he has legit interior line play, should have decent tackle play, has a fantastic set of receivers and a deep selection of runners to grind it out with.

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So I am assuming Chad Thomas ends up being our backup LDE behind Ogbah.  I could see him used like Greg Williams used WIlliam Hayes for the rams.  Big bodied DE with limited pass rush but could stuff the run effectively.  I think after drafting him in the 3rd Carl Nassib is going to be gone.

I know we paid Carrie more money, but based on Talent you don't think EJ Gaines is going to end up being our other boundary corner? he played very well in Buffalo, where Carrie hasn't been a boundary before.  If i'm not mistaken wasn't he the nickle for Oakland?

I think the Undrafted Free Agent from a Division II school is going to have a hard time taking over LT in the NFL, I would be shocked if he was even the backup there.  I think there's a better chance of having Donald Stephenson or Corbett back up LT, or the possibility of moving Bitonio to LT and have Corbett play LG is also a possibility.  But I do think Coleman will get the first show.

Lastly, you think Caleb is more fit to be a run stopping NT that a pass rushing 3-tech?  For some reason I thought Caleb was better at pass rushing and Ogunjobi played NT in college and has more experience there.  Regardless,  I think we let Shelton go because we wanted more pass rush from the NT position than we were getting.  I wouldn't be surprised to see Ogunjobi and Brantley both start by the end of the year.

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Brantley and Larry are both 3texhs aren’t they?

alao you missed chad Thomas who is making the team. 

I don’t think we keep10 olinemen. 

I think we drop reiter. 

I like dayes kr, st and duke insurance.

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If this happens, some guys I would like to try to move to a team that is deep at DT for an upgrade there.  Telfer, Orchard, Nassib off the top of my head.  I also think Gaines is on the outside and Carrie is Nickle, making BBC a very flexible reserve.

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We are not keeping 4 backs and 10 offensive lineman and then only rolling with 22 defenders. Matthew Dayes is not going to make it and one of Harrison or Stephenson get the axe. I hope it is Harrison winning the battle bc Stephenson is trash but I have little faith in Harrison.

Also I highly doubt we just up and cut the #67 pick even if he is terrible. Dorsey won't admit a mistake that early and Jimmy Haslam would be stupid to let him as it would just be another negative publicity move.

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Posted (edited)

I think Randall will excel at free safety. I mentioned earlier that BBC will be a backup FS.

 

However, I think next offseason we need to heavily invest in the trenches. Also, Gaines will be the other boundary corner.

Edited by candyman93

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42 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

I think Randall will excel at free safety. I mentioned earlier that BBC will be a backup FS.

 

However, I think next offseason we need to heavily invest in the trenches. Also, Gaines will be the other boundary corner.

We need to get Williams his Aaron Donald badly.

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18 hours ago, TheeRealDeal said:

We are not keeping 4 backs and 10 offensive lineman and then only rolling with 22 defenders. Matthew Dayes is not going to make it and one of Harrison or Stephenson get the axe. I hope it is Harrison winning the battle bc Stephenson is trash but I have little faith in Harrison.

Also I highly doubt we just up and cut the #67 pick even if he is terrible. Dorsey won't admit a mistake that early and Jimmy Haslam would be stupid to let him as it would just be another negative publicity move.

Just an oversight on the Chad Thomas not being on the roster (now the defense has 23)

As for the 22/23 on defense, this is just a projection based on the best talent on the roster right now... once players fall off of other rosters and we boost the talent on defense the roster numbers on offense vs defense will more equalize...

This was an exercise just to give a picture of the roster based on the best talent.

We carried 10 and 11 OL last year and we'll do so again as teams do that have OL versatility and spots not solidified.

What the bottom of the roster looks like today will be a lot different at the real 53...

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Posted (edited)
On 4/30/2018 at 5:29 PM, TheeRealDeal said:

We are not keeping 4 backs and 10 offensive lineman and then only rolling with 22 defenders. Matthew Dayes is not going to make it and one of Harrison or Stephenson get the axe. I hope it is Harrison winning the battle bc Stephenson is trash but I have little faith in Harrison.

Also I highly doubt we just up and cut the #67 pick even if he is terrible. Dorsey won't admit a mistake that early and Jimmy Haslam would be stupid to let him as it would just be another negative publicity move.

Harrison was very under rated and he had some pretty nasty film, he is a beast. I think he went undrafted because of getting in trouble not cause of talent. Jmo but figured I'd throw it out there in case you didn't know. Also I think he makes the 53 man roster but he will have a short leash foe sho. Also great wright up @Mind Character

Edited by buckeyesNut0623

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On 4/30/2018 at 6:21 PM, DizzyDean said:

We need to get Williams his Aaron Donald badly.

He's already on the team, Larry ogunjobi. He'll be a poor man's Aaron Donald. 5-7 sacks, with pressures and some splash tfl's. 

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1 hour ago, Keylargobrownie said:

He's already on the team, Larry ogunjobi. He'll be a poor man's Aaron Donald. 5-7 sacks, with pressures and some splash tfl's. 

I hope so, I will believe it when I see it.

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Here are my takes:

Areas of concern/potential concern:

DL Depth: I like Garrett and Ogbah, but both show injury concerns/history. Nassib and Orchard aren't good backups/rotation guys. Here's hoping these two stay healthy or it could be a frustrating season

OT Question marks: Coleman, Hubbard, and Corbett...that's a very unproven/underwhelming group. Hubbard has shown flashes of being solid and disappointing. Let's hope that it's more "unproven" than underwhelming.

WR group: While on paper this could be our strongest/most pleasant surprise as a unit, the opposite holds true. Coleman has been hurt, Gordon has been suspended countless times, and Calloway has major character concerns. Landry is solid as a slot, but he's not an outside guy. We need someone to step up as that possession/outside threat.

TE group: Njoku looks the part but is young and inconsistent. DeValve led the league in OPI penalties last year, as he was called for 137 of them in the first 5 games (it seemed like). Neither is a great inline blocker

However, the QB group will be average at worst if they stay healthy (Tyrod alone makes that possible), the RB group looks promising with Duke, Hyde, and Chubb, and our interior OL is solid as well.

Defensively, we have a nice trio of LBs and our secondary is MUCH IMPROVED.

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25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Here are my takes:

Areas of concern/potential concern:

DL Depth: I like Garrett and Ogbah, but both show injury concerns/history. Nassib and Orchard aren't good backups/rotation guys. Here's hoping these two stay healthy or it could be a frustrating season

Don’t forget about Thomas and Smith, those are likely the backups.

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

OT Question marks: Coleman, Hubbard, and Corbett...that's a very unproven/underwhelming group. Hubbard has shown flashes of being solid and disappointing. Let's hope that it's more "unproven" than underwhelming.

I thought Coleman was serviceable at RT, hoping Hubbard is as well.  Definitely not bookends, but better than we’ve fielded in the past.

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

WR group: While on paper this could be our strongest/most pleasant surprise as a unit, the opposite holds true. Coleman has been hurt, Gordon has been suspended countless times, and Calloway has major character concerns. Landry is solid as a slot, but he's not an outside guy. We need someone to step up as that possession/outside threat.

I have literally no clue what to expect from this group.

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

TE group: Njoku looks the part but is young and inconsistent. DeValve led the league in OPI penalties last year, as he was called for 137 of them in the first 5 games (it seemed like). Neither is a great inline blocker

Don’t forget Fells, he’s the blocker. I’d expect a big jump year 1 to year 2 for Njoku.

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

However, the QB group will be average at worst if they stay healthy (Tyrod alone makes that possible)

Average QB play?  Sounds wonderful.

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

, the RB group looks promising with Duke, Hyde, and Chubb, and our interior OL is solid as well.

Agreed.  We may have an actual NFL team!

25 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

Defensively, we have a nice trio of LBs and our secondary is MUCH IMPROVED.

Agreed, especially the secondary.

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If we can stop the run  like last year and have a competent secondary then defence will be fun to watch this year. 

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