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The 53: Player, Roster, & Acquisitions Talk


Mind Character
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On 6/4/2018 at 8:52 PM, buno67 said:

I completely feel that Obunjobi describes what exactly you are looking for. He is the ideal penetrating 1T you want. Played limited snaps but when he was in he was making a difference. Coaches/Dorsey made sure to get him in the field more. 

I think you may have misinterpreted my in the quote below...

The position in question was really about our NT... that's why I discussed how Meder and Coley didn't get it done as elite at run stopping or creating inside pass rush. Larry Og is not a NT, he's a 3-tech with berserker inside disruption... he can get pushed around and caught in the wash in the run game as well if he doesn't immediately win off the line.

1-Tech's are Pat Williams, Haloti Ngata, Linvel Joseph, and Chris Baker types... they're usually mountain men with limited inside pass rush disruption but are unmovable and usually become run specialist. Larry neither has the body type (arm length) or stout strength to be this type of player.

Ultimately, I'd like to pair a NT with pass rush disruption with Larry... Suh would've been the perfect signing in terms of style of play but money and personality wise they weren't fits...we'll have to likely look to the draft for that type of player.

In terms of Larry, his play instincts in terms of locating the ball or slow shed and moving down the line and not overrunning the play are really bad (he's still new to the game of football)... to me this limits his ceiling and likely means he'll be a great berserker 3tech in a good rotation, but he won't be the guy long term unless he can grow into those deficient areas...

On 6/4/2018 at 12:58 AM, Mind Character said:

DT/NT: As much as I love Larry Ogunobi, we still need a force up the middle that can provide both stout run stuffing power, but also provide a serious pass rushing threat. This will likely be the direction we go in next year's draft, but the combo of Trevon Coley and Jamie Meder did not get it done last year. In an ideal scenario, Brantley steps up as he is the ideal NT who is a better run stuffer than pass rusher, but provides enough juice in the pass rush to be a serious wrecking force against potent offenses. We really need Larry and Caleb to step up.

 

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5 hours ago, Mind Character said:

Larry Og is not a NT, he's a 3-tech with berserker inside disruption... he can get pushed around and caught in the wash in the run game as well if he doesn't immediately win off the line.

My question is when has this happened? And even still to this point we have added another LB before we added a DT. That should tell you all you need to know about our team's confidence in the position

I also disagree with the part about his strength, he has tremendous lower body strength and overall strength. Gregg Williams never had big wide 1 technique types that you spoke of, the biggest guys he had was John Henderson and Michael Brockers who are both tall but not exactly wide, Williams likes a bit of athleticism with his 1-Tech which Is why Ogunjobi is a perfect fit for Williams's attack scheme, he is 6'3 310 and is the same side as Cornelius Griffin who did pretty well in his scheme in Washington.

Edited by MSURacerDT55
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5 hours ago, Mind Character said:

I think you may have misinterpreted my in the quote below...

The position in question was really about our NT... that's why I discussed how Meder and Coley didn't get it done as elite at run stopping or creating inside pass rush. Larry Og is not a NT, he's a 3-tech with berserker inside disruption... he can get pushed around and caught in the wash in the run game as well if he doesn't immediately win off the line.

1-Tech's are Pat Williams, Haloti Ngata, Linvel Joseph, and Chris Baker types... they're usually mountain men with limited inside pass rush disruption but are unmovable and usually become run specialist. Larry neither has the body type (arm length) or stout strength to be this type of player.

Ultimately, I'd like to pair a NT with pass rush disruption with Larry... Suh would've been the perfect signing in terms of style of play but money and personality wise they weren't fits...we'll have to likely look to the draft for that type of player.

In terms of Larry, his play instincts in terms of locating the ball or slow shed and moving down the line and not overrunning the play are really bad (he's still new to the game of football)... to me this limits his ceiling and likely means he'll be a great berserker 3tech in a good rotation, but he won't be the guy long term unless he can grow into those deficient areas...

 

If the browns have penetrators like OBun Garrett and Ogbah, you don’t need a NT who is great at pass rush distruption. You really need a NT who will eat up blocks really. Just need a NT who can keep the centers attention so he isn’t able to go over and help on a 3T or keep the attention of the guard so the guard can’t get off and help the tackle or take on a blitzing LB clean or get out free to a LB clean. If you want a true disruption, you scheme for that and made a package for that. Browns could easily do that by bumping OBun to the NT and bring in Garrett or Ogbah to play the 3T and bring in the best Pass rusher off the bench. Coley showed he is a good but young player. To me he is better in the 4-3 but spend his previous stops in 3-4 schemes. I think he fits what the browns need for two downs. They just need a guy or package for 3rd downs/passing situations

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1 hour ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

My question is when has this happened? And even still to this point we have added another LB before we added a DT. That should tell you all you need to know about our team's confidence in the position

Even after dumping Shelton. I agree. Coley isn’t a pro bowler but he showed improvement. He still has room to develop as a nose. Meder is a solid backup. And then you have Ogbah and possibly Chad Thomas inside on pass downs. 

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I'm personally shocked that Hankins is still a free agent. Apparently there's something about him that the rest of the league knows that I don't. He was a STUD in 2016 and it looked like he had a good 2017. I mean, even PFF graded him as an 85 last year (High Quality, #20 overall DI). Plus, he's only 26.

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10 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

I'm personally shocked that Hankins is still a free agent. Apparently there's something about him that the rest of the league knows that I don't. He was a STUD in 2016 and it looked like he had a good 2017. I mean, even PFF graded him as an 85 last year (High Quality, #20 overall DI). Plus, he's only 26.

Supposedly just contract demands. Asking for 10mil/yr

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On 6/6/2018 at 6:34 AM, MSURacerDT55 said:

My question is when has this happened? And even still to this point we have added another LB before we added a DT. That should tell you all you need to know about our team's confidence in the position

I also disagree with the part about his strength, he has tremendous lower body strength and overall strength. Gregg Williams never had big wide 1 technique types that you spoke of, the biggest guys he had was John Henderson and Michael Brockers who are both tall but not exactly wide, Williams likes a bit of athleticism with his 1-Tech which Is why Ogunjobi is a perfect fit for Williams's attack scheme, he is 6'3 310 and is the same side as Cornelius Griffin who did pretty well in his scheme in Washington.

My general point when when I listed DT/NT as question mark/area of weakness was that in Meder and Coley we have neither a 1-tech NT that is elite at run-stopping or elite in interior pass rush disruption from the NT position.

The most effective 43 Defenses are those that can push the pocket from the inside via the 3-tech and 1-tech as interior disruption is the most impactful way to effect the QBs vision and comfortability on platform even more so than outside rushing.

Therefore, I was hoping that in pursuit of an elite defensive line we would upgrade at the NT position. I did however say that Caleb Brantley COULD be that do-it-all 1-tech type due to his play characteristics... i did however also see Larry as more of a 3-tech than a 1-tech based on his play at Charlotte and the limited sample size of plays on the Browns.

If you think Larry is a 1-tech in skill set, then we just have a disagreement in terms of DL play evaluation. I see Larry as a linear inside penetrator who does a good job using short area burst and quickness to berserk into the backfield and blow up a run or pass play. Last year, when it came to run fit holding to make a play in 2 gaps he had a hard time locating the ball and over ran plays when having to run down the line. I saw this in multiple games.  His problem is awareness likely do to still being young at the position in terms of experience. he also doesn't uses his hands well when it comes to holding up in the run. His game is all about winning at the snap and winning soon. When he doesn't he can get pushed around in the run game b/c of poor technique and awareness. That's why he's a quick win 3-tech for now... his skill set and awareness and technique will obviously grow as he's a diligent worker... but I'm not sure it will ever be elite.

I never said that we needed a Pat Williams 1-tech type, I just was responding to buno's point that Larry is a 1-tech by giving examples of the body and play type/traits of 1-techs in the league in order to make the point that Larry is more of a 3-tech than a 1-tech when it comes to looking at Larry's play style & less importantly his body type (not about height weight speed per se, but arm length ... how he uses his length ... .does he hold the point of attack, etc..).

I watched 10 games of Larry at Charlotte and 5 games last year for the Browns... imo he's a 3-tech who has the versatility to play 1-tech.

I also said based on play traits that Caleb Brantley is more of a 1-tech with pass rush versatility than Trevon Coley. Brantley love to arm press and hold his two gaps than shed late to make a play... he also has the quickness to win at the snap and provide interior pass rush.

 

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The only real questions in terms of final roster will be on d-line.

 

Final 53 Prediction

 

QB: Tyrod Taylor, Baker Mayfield, Drew Stanton

RB: Carlos Hyde, Nick Chubb, Duke Johnson Jr.

FB: Dan Vitale

WR: Josh Gordon, Jarvis Landry, Antonio Callaway, Corey Coleman, Damion Ratley, Jeff Janis

TE: David Njoku, Seth DeValve, Darren Fells

OT: Shon Coleman, Chris Hubbard, Roderick Johnson, Spencer Drango

OG: Joel Bitonio, Kevin Zeitler, Austin Corbett

OC: JC Tretter, Austin Reiter

 

DE: Myles Garrett, Emmanuel Ogbah, Chris Smith, Chad Thomas

DT: Trevon Coley, Larry Ogunjobi, Caleb Brantley, Trenton Thompson

OLB: Jamie Collins, Christian Kirksey, Genard Avery, James Burgess

ILB: Joe Schobert, Mychal Kendricks

CB: Denzel Ward, TJ Carrie, EJ Gaines, Terrance Mitchell, Howard Wilson, Simeon Thomas

FS: Damarious Randall, Brien Boddy Calhoun

SS: Jabrill Peppers, Derrick Kindred 

 

P: Britton Colquitt

K: Zane Gonzalez

LS: Charley Hughlett

Edited by candyman93
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Here is a lol

The raiders have signed two former Browns DL. Frostee Rucker and Ahtyba Rubin. They both played here in 2012 (Frostee's only season here) wRubin played here from 2008-2014.

I loved Rubin he was a solid NT. 

But damn, these guys are too old and average to still be in the league. 

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1 hour ago, Kiwibrown said:

Based on your list @candyman93 i see our 5th we slot as being open. Our 4th Ot being open, @Rod Johnson isn’t a lock imo. 

I think our 4th dt is open as well, I think Meder makes the team. 

I don’t think Reiter is a lock either. 

For the dbs I would say the most likely open spot is Howard Wilson. 

Overall we have a good team imo.

This years team is significantly better than the team we had opening day.

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5 minutes ago, Kiwibrown said:

Here is a lol

The raiders have signed two former Browns DL. Frostee Rucker and Ahtyba Rubin. They both played here in 2012 (Frostee's only season here) wRubin played here from 2008-2014.

I loved Rubin he was a solid NT. 

But damn, these guys are too old and average to still be in the league. 

I actually like what the Raiders are doing. The team is old, but experienced. Carr, Mack, and Conley are young cornerstone players so they’re fine.

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2 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

This years team is significantly better than the team we had opening day.

especially he guys that touch the ball. Our oline and dline might be worse by a fraction, but our skill players are much better. We have probably gone from the 40th best QB in the NFL to the 16th. that is massive. 

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1 minute ago, candyman93 said:

I actually like what the Raiders are doing. The team is old, but experienced. Carr, Mack, and Conley are young cornerstone players so they’re fine.

I think there is a point where dudes are just too old. Especially guys who are not special athletes. Frostee and Rubin are average to above average guys in their prime. Not assuming anyone here but if we though Rubin was good, it was probably because for the most part he was beside bad. He was an average player with a great motor imo. 

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