Goldfish's Way Too Early Draft Rankings 2018 (Tampa Bay at 1)

[thebestever6]

5 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Not impressed. He's a good player, but won't be redrafted in the top 5. He's got an extremely high floor, but a very pedestrian ceiling. I don't think he's going to be a double digit sack guy.

My least favorite WR that was highly touted. He's big and fast in a straight line, but he's perpetually covered by below average DB's. He's obviously faster, but I got Dwayne Jarrett vibes.

Freeman isn't bad, but he was on my overrated list. I wouldn't have taken him before R4 or R5. He's a big back that doesn't run angry. He frustrates me.

Didn't see him play. Seems like he's a baller from what I have heard.

Great pick. Perfect.

Great pick. Perfect.

Great pick. Not sure if they need another slow white guy TE, but the value is very good.

Never saw him play.

Never heard of him.

Never seen him play.

 

 

I did not like their draft at all. They whiffed on their first 2 picks IMO with an average player in the top 5 and then a bust at #40. They rebounded nicely with Yiadom (allegedly), Jewel, and Hamilton. But I am one of the very few people that was left unimpressed with both Sutton and Chubb, so maybe I'm crazy...I just don't see the hype with the Denver draft. If I liked Chubb and Sutton like most people, this would be an elite draft class for them.

 

If I were them, I'd have probably traded down from #5 and targeted Vita Vea, Derwin James, or Marcus Davenport.  Oh, and I hate that they didn't get a QB. Case Keenum had a miracle year and I don't expect him to replicate that success in Denver. I think they're in the top 5 again next draft season and will be thirsting for a QB.

Even if you don't like the players you can't argue they were still had at good value which is how you grade a draft at the top imo.

[thebestever6]

4 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I wasnt crazy about Denvers draft after Chubb. Surprised they went Sutton in round 2 when i thought going OL or TE would be much more ideal. Not completely surprised they didnt take a QB though. Keenum will be the guy and the young QBs behind him can learn

They picked I te they coached at,the senior bowl. Got him in round 5 and they think hes a great fit 

As far as oline I was mildly surprised but theres 3 or 4 young guys on our roster I think they have confidence in.

[HTTRDynasty]

23 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Best Thing About This Draft:

I don't really know who leads the draft in Washington these days, but this was a really good and (perhaps unexpected) haul. They hit on a lot of their needs and there are some good players selected all the way through. The first two selections, in particular, were both thought to have been contenders for the 13th pick - so to finish up with both is pretty cool result. Everyone thought they would like Vita Vea, so when the Buccs took him one pick ahead they went and got Da’Ron Payne who kind of similar – but brings different gifts. His quick feet hint at greater things to come as a pass-rusher, but perhaps his greatest gift is an ability to locate the ball carrier in heavy traffic. That skill-set suggests he could play at a number of spots on the interior defensive line.

Derrius Guice represents a big upswing in talent level at running back which is a spot that has dogged them for a while. A series of weird character concerns that haven’t really fleshed themselves out yet seem to have been responsible for landing outside the first round. As a player, he is fast to hit the hole and seeks out defenders to win after contact and was very productive on the ground despite facing stacked boxes due to poor quarterback play. Ideally you’d like to have seen him used in the passing game more, but he hasn’t looked deficient in that department on a small sample and the Redskins are quite binary in how they like to employ their backs, so might not be something they need from him.

Apparently Kyle Smith, son of former Chargers GM AJ Smith, is the new star of our FO.  Nominally, Bruce Allen is the final decision maker, but they really do seem to come to a consensus on all decisions before making a pick from everything I've heard.

I wanted Vea, but if you would have told me we'd end up with Payne and Guice after the first two rounds, I wouldn't have believed you.  The only way most of us thought it was possible to get both was to trade back up into the end of the first round for Guice, which likely would have left us without a 2nd or 3rd round pick.  We not only got Guice with a 2nd round pick, but we were able to move back to the end of the 2nd to take him, and picked up a 3rd round pick in the process.  That is excellent work by our FO.

Speaking of Guice, he seems a little immature, but a lot of the "character concerns" that led to his fall appear to be smoke.  Most likely conjured by the agent he recently fired before the draft, and/or other agents of highly touted RB prospects.  This quote sheds a little more light on that:
 

Quote

 

Q&A with Mile Detillier, Part 1: LSU in the NFL Draft

 

Scott: When it comes to LSU and the draft, the hot topic is the slide of Derrius Guice late in the second round. What’s your take on the way this all played out?

 

Mike: I have done this 33 years and I see this virtually every year. A prominent agent puts out info (true or not) on a player when he has a client at the same spot. He wants to upgrade the status of his client and lower a player at his position and he doesn’t care if it is true. It’s the ugly part of this process. What is disturbing is the national guys who repeated this and had no proof. No proof. At first, it was off the field issues and then when they were put on notice he had no arrest, no suspensions or any other matters, then it turned to a TMZ video. TMZ’s executives denied they had anything on Guice. Then it turned into a confrontation between him and a coach. Then, when both sides denied it, it became, “Well he didn’t interview well and spoke about video games and bowling instead of watching film.” Look, I deal with agents daily and I know exactly how it works for them. Some are really good people and don’t play this game, but there are always a few who will do or say whatever they can to upgrade their client. It’s draft gossip and some run with it as fact. My deal is prove what you are saying. Prove it. If you can’t, then you can’t go with it. But we live in the social media world of getting clicks and folks making up a story to make their own agenda sound better. Interviews are a personal opinion, and not fact. Guice got caught up with it and he also called out the NFL for their line of questioning in interviews. You think the NFL wants that out? No way, and he is not the first one to say that the line of questioning centered around someone’s mom or their sexuality. We live in that world. It used to be about someone’s health or an injury, but now it’s about their character. Again, prove it, but at this stage it’s old news and the agent did his job of getting his guy picked higher and put Guice in a bit of a free-fall.  Teams pick players with criminal histories and admitted issues with drugs and alcohol and those same guys know it, but they don’t say it. It’s the ugly side of the draft world and I get that same sort of information quite a bit. 

 

But Guice will do great in Washington. He’s come from a tough background and he is a top competitor and player. Coaches Miles and Orgeron have spoken about him at the highest level. No one is perfect in this world, but this made-up information on him shows just how far some will go to upgrade their own guy. We have all heard about the really good things he has done in the community, but that’s local, not national news. He was targeted and for the agent or agents involved it got their own player picked higher and those guys walk away in the snow with no footprints.

 

http://www.dandydon.com/Mike_Detillier_LSU_Spring_2018_1.php

 

 

 

 

23 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Worst Thing About This Draft:

Troy Apke was a little bold at the top of the 4th round. Obviously he had the insane workout at the combine and there's room to grow. To be fair to him, he is not exactly a slouch on the field and was the NFLPA’s player of that particular all-star game. He can't really tackle particularly well, which is an issue. But, you could make him a specialist as a deep middle defender and his athleticism might make it work back there if he learns to read the field. Failing that, he might make his name as a special teams ace.

Yeah, I agree that Apke was our biggest reach.  There are a few other players I would have preferred there, but one of those guys was Settle, and we ended up getting him a round later.  The Redskins had a late 2nd round grade on Settle, so that probably means they were a lot higher on Apke than most if they passed over Settle in the 4th round. 

Most Redskins fans are a lot more willing to give Apke a chance than we normally would be.  The reason for that is that this pick was basically a repeat of last year's pick of Montae Nicholson in the 4th.  It was the only pick that was universally hated by the fan base.  He was a supremely athletic specimen, similar to Apke, but his film didn't match his athleticism and most assumed he was too soft and his instincts were too poor to become a starter.  It was considered a major reach by most.  It turned out that he was one of the best players on our defense when he was given the opportunity to start.  Far from soft, he was almost too physical, laying big hits on WRs and RBs (and hurting himself multiple times in the process) and showing extremely good range, as the FS in our Cover 3 scheme is required to have.  When he went down, our defense wasn't close to the same.  I think his loss had almost as big of an impact as Jonathan Allen's last year.  Jay Gruden called him the Jordan Reed of our defense (basically the key to making everything hum as it should).  Everyone on the staff and a lot of the DBs on the team are really excited about this kid.  I just hope he can stay healthy.

All that being said, much of Nicholson's development, and Kendall Fuller's outstanding jump from year 1 to year 2, is attributed to our DB coach, Torrian Gray, who was hired from Virginia Tech (so Fuller's former college coach) in the 2017 off-season.  If Gray can develop Apke like he did Nicholson and Fuller, the kid definitely has a chance to turn that incredible athleticism into on-field production.  I think this pick maybe shows more faith in Gray than it does in Apke.

 

23 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

Late Round Gem:

Trey Quinn – Although I actually quite like each of their last four picks. Trey Quinn might be the best Mr Irrelevant selection in a while though, a former five star recruit at LSU that ended up transferring to SMU and out produced Courtland Sutton this past year. He’s a little slight, so drew lazy comparisons to Wes Welker, Julian Edelman et al. He’s got a great pair of hands and can win with speed and quickness, I think he has a shot to make the team.

The funny thing about this pick is that apparently Gruden was banging the table for us to draft Quinn for quite a while throughout Day 3, and he was so irate that we didn't make the pick with our first 7th rounder that he walked out of the room (expecting Quinn to get drafted by someone else).  Apparently, he walked back in with a smile on his face once we made Quinn Mr. Irrelevant.

According to Scot McCloughan, Gruden is an uncommonly good evaluator for a coach.  He actually called him the best talent evaluator as a head coach that he's ever worked with.  High praise, considering some of the coaches McCloughan has worked with over the years.  So if Jay is banging the table for a player, I wouldn't be surprised to see that player make the team, which would eventually allow us to let Jamison Crowder walk next year and have that spot filled with a solid player.

 

I have nothing all that significant to add on the other guys.  Great write-up man.  I really look forward to this thread every year.

 

Edited May 9, 2018 by HTTRG3Dynasty

[Broncofan]

10 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

8.  Denver Broncos

Pre-Draft Needs:

QB, OL, DL, WR, EDGE

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 5

2. 40

3. 71

3. 99

4. 106

4. 113

5. 149

5. 160

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 5. Bradley Chubb  [ DE ] NC State

2. 40. Courtland Sutton  [ WR ] SMU

3. 71. Royce Freeman  [ RB ] Oregon

3. 99. Isaac Yiadom  [ CB ] Boston College

4. 106. Josey Jewell  [ LB ] Iowa

4. 113. DaeSean Hamilton  [ WR ] Penn State

5. 156. Troy Fumagalli  [ TE ] Wisconsin

6. 183. Sam Jones  [ G ] Arizona State

6. 217. Keishawn Bierria  [ LB ] Washington

7. 226. David Williams  [ RB ] Arkansas

 

Best Thing About This Draft:

So, they didn’t take a quarterback which I kind of like for where they are right now. They paid Case Keenum a lot of money and there’s still probably some in-house hope Paxton Lynch can come good. Some pride at least that Elway doesn't want to give up right now. Last year showed there are other ways to win in the NFL and that's a lesson they know well from their recent Super Bowl run. John Elway switched his focus instead to accumulating good players at spots they needed help in. I’ve got to admit, I didn’t think he had it in him, but this really is an excellent haul of players. Many of whom are ready to play right now with a focus being laid on productive prospects rather than high athletic ceilings. That's a different route to what many other teams were doing in this draft. 

I really loved the Chubb pick which kicked things off. Apparently Denver had a deal in place to move down but hadn’t even considered the prospect he would be available at 5 – which was a bit weird. Some of the athletic testing might suggest some limitations as a pure bend the edge type rusher, but every team could do with a consistent threat to the opposition backfield. The sheer number of TFLs he racked up at NC State tells you he can dominate there. The Super Bowl winning Denver was at its best when it had a constant threat across from Von Miller and Chubb could be that.

Worst Thing About This Draft:

They did some free agent spending on the offensive line, which might pay off. Perhaps an earlier selection than the 6^th round might have been a good idea. It is looking better there than in recent seasons, but it's still a fragile situation. 

Late Round Gem:

Troy Fumagalli  – The Broncos will have an open competition for their tight end spot(s) with Jake Butt recovering from his ACL and Jeff Heuerman rounding up the options there. At 6’6 and 250 pounds, Fumagalli is a bigger receiving tight end who led Wisconsin in receptions over the past two season. He’s not a top tier athlete, but can contribute in both facets of the game and consistently overachieved as a former walk-on. Perhaps he can overachieve in Denver.

What Else?

Courtland Sutton at 40 was kind of an unexpected route, but clearly they don’t want to keep leaning on a passing game that has been resting itself on the shoulders of a Thomas/Sanders duo that failed to spark last season. Sutton has the perfect size and frame you look for in a number 1, but plays with finesse rather than power. He has a genuine ability to separate at the top of vertical routes, making him a useful threat downfield. Contrary to what some thought about him, I think Royce Freeman in the 3rd round could become be a solid starter in the NFL and he’s a really nice fit in Denver as a jack of all trades back who is built to sustain the ground game.

Isaac Yiadom was the best corner in the draft nobody was talking about. He’s a lengthy, press corner who had a good week at the Senior Bowl where he had a lot of wins one on one and was stingy in pass coverage at BC. Josey Jewell was one of my favorite prospects in the draft, an overachieving defender with a knack for being in the right place and the right time. He'll help bring some leadership back to that defense too. DaeSean Hamilton was one of the better route running wide receiver prospects, he’s a chain-moving technician who knows how to create space in the slot. That was a deceptively good pick-up in the 4th round if they can find a way to get him on the field. 

Sam Jones was the local boy picked up in the 6^th round after playing well at Arizona State, he’ll give good depth on the offensive line interior. Probably needs to spend some time in an NFL weight room, but he moves and pulls well. Keishawn Bierria was a productive part of Washington defense, but his low athletic ceiling may limit what he’s able to achieve in the NFL. He might have to find his way on special teams. David Williams was a late transfer from South Carolina and worked as a tandem in Arkansas as the inside banger. At 6’1 and 230 pounds, he's Royce Freeman’s with quite a bit less tread on the tyre, only he's not near his class as a football player at this point. 

Nice writeup, I agree with the rank.   We could have had the top draft of the year IMO, but for 3 key choices.  And who knows, maybe they were the right choices, and we will end up with a top 3 draft.   

But, personally I do agree that Sutton's choice, while hailed in some circles, represents more that he was chosen to be the #2 or #3 guy in a very weak top-heavy, but strong 2nd-tier WR class.    If Elway had him as a top 30 guy, I get it.  I had him at top 35, but I also had 4 guys well ahead still on the board, and more importantly, the drop-off from Sutton to the next 4-5 WR's wasn't nearly as big  as the drop-off from other guys available (TE Goedert & CB Oliver, both who were also ahead of Sutton straight-up) to the next 1-2 guys was steep.  I do think Freeman is serviceable - I personally had RB John Kelly & Mark Walton ahead of both (to be transparent, I'd put Kelly ahead of Walton), and even though neither is a classic thumper that Freeman is, I prefer to have the do-it-all guys (and have 2 of them), rather than the thunder/lightning combo teams prefer (but we are starting to see some teams veer away from, like ATL, SF, etc.).  If taking a WR at 3.7 (Gallup would have been the guy the way the draft fell), and a RB 3.99 (Kelly or Walton, I would have gone Kelly) was the result, so be it.  Now, that doesn't get us Yiadom and no way do I back off the choices of Jewell & Hamilton, so there's the flip side - how Yiadom does with DEN.

The other weakness I get from this writeup's theme that isn't explicitly stated, but that I agree 100 percent is that Rds 5-6 last 4 picks were all limited talents.   Which is OK if that was the hand we were dealt.   But we had the option at 5.149 and 5.160 to stand pat, and take guys like Tyrell Crosby & Tim Settle - guys who fell hard.  Crosby's was because of concussion, not sure in the end why Settle fell - but man, those are missed opps we had.   We chose instead to trade down and get the 4 guys we did.  Fumigali is such a limited athlete, it's hard to see him more than a serviceable blocking TE.  The other 3 guys just seem like JAG’s.   To pass up on a Crosby/Settle-like talent for the 4 guys we chose, I do fear how much we'll regret those choices.   

Ultimately, though, passing on Rosen/Allen for Chubb is going to tell the tale.   If Chubb is amazing Robin to Von's Batman, and Rosen is a franchise QB, that will be a great debate.  If Rosen is awesome and Chubb is just a good but not great player, well damn we'll regret that for the next 8-10 years.  That's my concern, as I'm a big believer in Rosen, and while his injury risk is very real, pocket QB's are the most protected by NFL rules, even more so than college.   Still, if Rosen doesn't play up to that hope or career gets sidelined by injury, then the Chubb pick looks great (or Allen, although I will state I had no problem with passing on Allen).   I would say that I'm not a big believer in Keenum as anything than a stopgap, and Elway's reported ranking of Darnold 1.1 and reported attempt to contact NYG to trade up (and apparently Gettleman wouldn't take calls), speaks to his recognition that Keenum isn't likely our answer beyond 2018. FTR I would have gone Rosen 1.5.   But I’m glad we went Chubb over Allen.   That floor terrifies me with our inability to develop QB’s who need work (another reason why Rosen such a good fit for us).

I would say the Rd 4 choices should get a TON of love.   Jewell & Hamilton fell because their athletic measurables aren't impressive - but their game film speaks to skills that aren't defined by conventional measurements, and Jewell's short-area quickness and Hamilton's route-running (for a slot guy) are the athletic traits you need to overcome average combine profiles, and they have both.  

Overall, the ironic part of all of the above - unlike past drafts, Elway's taken guys who can actually play, and not guys who have athletic skills but need to develop football skills.  He's picked those guys over & over on Day 2 - and whiffed hard.   He's literally 1 for 13 from 2012-2017 (excluding Derek Wolfe since that was is trading back from late Rd1) in Day 2 picks to get a year 2 starter and even Year 3, it looks so far like 1 for 13  One for Thirteen.  That's awful, no matter where you are drafting from.     Elway just kept swinging for home-run ceiling guys with few to no actual football skills, and who needed time to develop.   That's fine for Day 3 - because there are no sure things by then.  But in Day 2, Elway's draft profile needed to change, he passed over so many good football players who would have helped our team - and worse, Elway had to compensate by repeating the picks in Day 2 for the same position (he did that this year, going WR & CB in Day 2, after going with WR/CB in Rd 3 last year, that's awful).  So while I mention how I'd have done Day 2 differently this time, it's a minor objection compared to what Elway's done in past drafts - that failure is a direct cause to why we are such a bad team now.   Any critique of DEN's draft should be balanced with the realization that this likely will be probably the best draft we've had since 2011-12.   It's not that our guys right now are locks to succeed - our record since 2013 is incredibly suspect (and that's even factoring our later draft spot - our best picks IMO were in Rd 4, and unlike the past, our Rd 2-3 picks don't seem automatically destined to bust, and actually could help by Year 2, instead of the Year 3+ ETA / bust we always end up with).   One look at 2017's draft should drive this point home.

The team change others may not be aware of as to why this may be happening - Elway brought back Gary Kubiak to be a bigger influence into this draft.   And he also indicated that he's "dipped into" analytics this year, and he planned on doing more.   Don't know which was the bigger influence, but this was very welcome.  DEN's draft record from 2013 has been very suspect.  Glad Elway recognized it needed a change.  This more than anything gives the fanbase the most amount of hope.  We're not a legit 2018 contender, and 2019 is going to be really hard with our awful cap situation, but if we can draft like this or better next year, a 2019-2020 sustained return to contention is very possible.  

All in all, strong work.  I can't argue the reasoning, figured the above would provide a nice foil to the evaluation.   Much respect for the work as always.

Edited May 9, 2018 by Broncofan

[BroncosFan2010]

I keep parroting this but as a Bronco fan I just cant give this draft a great grade because our GM passed a franchise QB talent in Rosen because we overpaid a one-year-wonder of a QB in Case who is almost certain to have a regression to the mean this upcoming season. Its tremendously short sighted. In one season we will be right back where we have been in our frantic search for a quality passer.

 

[Broncofan]

21 minutes ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I keep parroting this but as a Bronco fan I just cant give this draft a great grade because our GM passed a franchise QB talent in Rosen because we overpaid a one-year-wonder of a QB in Case who is almost certain to have a regression to the mean this upcoming season. Its tremendously short sighted. In one season we will be right back where we have been in our frantic search for a quality passer.

 

Given we hadn’t traded out of our spot for any of the early rounds, and had extra picks, and only BUF & NE had acquired a lot more draft capital out of the teams behind us predraft (while HOU traded it’s capital away), you could make the argument pre-draft the expectations would be to have a top 5 draft if all teams were equally talented at draft evaluation.    So #8 is a fair evaluation.   

Get our franchise QB with 1.5 and this automatically becomes a top 3 draft though.    In theory #8 sounds incredibly kind but the opportunity to be a lot higher (and tiers matter even more than straight rank) does have to be acknowledged.   In that respect CLE should have been a top 2-3 team worst case.   Going #10 means a lot of value was missed.    #8 at our predraft spot means we missed out on value which was there.  Which I agree with on both counts.  

Edited May 9, 2018 by Broncofan

[goldfishwars]

7.  Cincinnati Bengals

Pre-Draft Needs:

OL, LB, QB, CB

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 21

2. 46

3. 77

3. 100

4. 112

5. 151

5. 158

5. 170

7. 249

7. 252

7. 253

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 21. Billy Price  [ C ] Ohio State

2. 54. Jessie Bates III  [ S ] Wake Forest

3. 77. Sam Hubbard  [ DE ] Ohio State

3. 78. Malik Jefferson  [ LB ] Texas

4. 112. Mark Walton  [ RB ] Miami (FL)

5. 151. Davontae Harris  [ CB ] Illinois State

5. 158. Andrew Brown  [ DE ] Virginia

5. 170. Darius Phillips  [ CB ] Western Michigan

7. 249. Logan Woodside  [ QB ] Toledo

7. 252. Rod Taylor  [ G ] Ole Miss

7. 253. Auden Tate  [ WR ] Florida State

Best Thing About This Draft:

They drafted a lot of players, which is a strategy I abide by. Give yourself more chances to hit, players get injured, players flame out. Give yourself more bites of them apples. They also got some good players, particularly those first three picks, but at other spots too. Billy Price doesn’t feel like a consolation for missing out on Ragnow (if that's what happened). Yes, he has the pec injury and that may force him to miss early development time, but it doesn't sound like we’re talking about a medical redshirt here. On the field, he’s fast out of his stance and plays with a high level of aggression and technique. He should slot right in at center when he’s healthy which would be a big upgrade for a team that has got by, at best, at that position for a while. Jessie Bates is a free safety who can wreak havoc on a team's deep passing offense, he gives the Bengals some range at the back end and gives Teryl Austin a chance to play around with three safety looks. Sam Hubbard gets to stay in Ohio and at pick 77, that feels further than most thought he would go. A more athletic Rob Ninkovich has been thrown around as a comparison and that sounds about right. The Bengals are really building their options at defensive end.  

Worst Thing About This Draft:

Well, they could have chucked a pick on a quarterback that might have put some heat on Dalton, perhaps a Kyle Lauletta who slipped a bit – but that wasn’t going to happen. Perhaps a second earlier offensive line selection would have given them more options at tackle or guard. 

Late Round Gem:

Darius Phillips – Played wide receiver at Western Michigan, before converting to corner of years ago and turned those ball-skills into an ability to turn the ball over. He’s smaller in stature which makes him a more natural fit for the slot, which fits his skill-set well.

What Else?

They needed some help at linebacker, which has been an issue for a long while now. This time last year, Malik Jefferson was a hot name as a potential first round pick. This year he lands in the 3^rd round. He’s not the most instinctive player I’ve seen at the position, but he is decent in space and can blitz. There’s plenty to work with. I love the Walton pick at 112, he feels like a natural replacement for Gio Bernard. Coming off ankle surgery Walton might not see the field this year, Cinci’s record with rookies is anything to go by. But, he capable of becoming a real mismatch weapon out of the backfield when he's ready. 

Davontae Harris gives the team yet more options at the back end, either at corner or safety. I don't know a huge amount about him, other than that. Andrew Brown never fulfilled his five star potential at Virginia, but flashed here and there. He has some inside/out ability on a line which is building up some quality depth. His future might be better served as an attacking three tech to be groomed behind Geno Atkins, he's at his best when he's able to just tee off. 

Logan Woodside was a shot to nothing in the 7^th, I quite liked him as a late round lottery ticket. He's has some obvious limitations, but he's smart and can execute a quick passing attack. Rod Taylor is another former five star recruit, I'm not sure if that was by accident or design. He's had some off-field issues and was recently right tackle at 6'3, but very much has the look of a guard. He moves well, but looks like he's carrying a lot of bad weight. Everyone loved Auden Tate as a huge physical receiver until ran like Orlando Brown. His best work comes in the red zone where he can show off his soft hands and body control, that's where he can shine. 

I just remembered that Marvin Lewis tried to announce his retirement at the end of last season and Mike Brown basically wouldn't allow it. Did it actually happen like that? Either way that's a weird set-up there. 

[BroncoSojia]

2 hours ago, BroncosFan2010 said:

I keep parroting this but as a Bronco fan I just cant give this draft a great grade because our GM passed a franchise QB talent in Rosen because we overpaid a one-year-wonder of a QB in Case who is almost certain to have a regression to the mean this upcoming season. Its tremendously short sighted. In one season we will be right back where we have been in our frantic search for a quality passer.

 

This is my mindset right now. Between the HC and QB, I have little to no optimism for this upcoming season. We're likely stuck as a treadmill team for the next 2 years, not good enough to be a contender, but not bad enough to get a franchise QB, which is why we should've taken a QB when we had the chance. But Elway is stuck in this myopic "win now" mode.

Edited May 9, 2018 by BroncoSojia

[BleedTheClock]

3 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

Even if you don't like the players you can't argue they were still had at good value which is how you grade a draft at the top imo.

I didn't think Chubb or Sutton was good value at all though. I know I was a lot lower on Chubb than most, but he wasn't in my top 10 overall prospects AND I didn't even factor in positional importance. I thought Davenport was a better prospect with much more upside as a pass rusher from day 1 & down the line. Chubb has less flaws, but I'm not taking a William Hayes-level player in the 1st round. That's the level of production I expect Chubb to have. Certainly not a bust, but he'll underwhelm significantly as a pass rusher. You don't draft great run defending DE's in the top 5 if they can't consistently rip across the edge or bull rush OT's into oblivion. I question whether or not he can do that.

And Sutton is the most boring WR prospect ever that has that kind of size and speed. He body catches way too much and is never creating separation. He plays smaller than his frame would indicate and he lets DB's get into his body way too easily. He is overrated as hell. I had like 7-8 WR's rated ahead of him when Denver decided to snag him at #40. So no, I don't think that was good value at all. I could be wrong in the long run, but I expect Chubb to underwhelm (for a top 5 pick) and Sutton to wash out of the league in due time.

[BroncosFan2010]

Quote

This is my mindset right now. Between the HC and QB, I have little to no optimism for this upcoming season. We're likely stuck as treadmill team for the next 2 years, not good enough to be a contender, but not bad enough to get a franchise QB, which is why we should've taken a QB when we had the chance. But Elway is stick in this myopic "win now" mode.

Agreed. Treadmill team is exactly what I think of when looking at Denver, unfortunately.

 

Quote

You don't draft great run defending DE's in the top 5 if they can't consistently rip across the edge or bull rush OT's into oblivion. I question whether or not he can do that.

I don't see Miller, Mack or Bosa level pass rushing from Chubb and that's what I would need to see in order to pass up a potential franchise QB. I think he has Hali upside but there is no guarantee he reaches that level. More likely a solid run defender that gets 6-8 sacks per season. I also question if his best fit isn't at 43DE rather than 34LB. He isn't close to bendy enough to speed rush around the OT as a 34LB. I am very worried that he doesn't translate his pass rush to the NFL.

Edited May 9, 2018 by BroncosFan2010

[TheVillain112]

Great job on the Bengals write-up.  #1 thing the Bengals NEEDED to accomplish this offseason was replacing Russell Bodine with a competent center and the Bengals achieved that.  Also, we did turn the #12 overall pick into a starting LT and starting Center.  I'll take that any day...

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 21. Billy Price  [ C ] Ohio State

This was the pick I didn't like the most from them, and Price is a solid player. I just don't think he was a top 3 C in the class, especially when you factor in his health.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

2. 54. Jessie Bates III  [ S ] Wake Forest

Great pick. It was seen as a little early by some, but I thought he was a steal here. Bates is a true FS prospect that isn't afraid to come down and lay the wood on people. His tackling form is garbage, but the willingness is there and he's not going to be asked to play in the box. He's got great instincts, length, straight & lateral speed, and ball skills.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

3. 77. Sam Hubbard  [ DE ] Ohio State

I wasn't as high on Hubbard as others and thought this was right about where his value was. Good pick here.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

3. 78. Malik Jefferson  [ LB ] Texas

Great pick at #78. The Bengals needed to add a speedy playmaker to their LB group and Jefferson has the upside to make splash plays on that defense. Jefferson will excel if they don't use him as a read-react linebacker. He should be playing outside of the box and be used as a blitzer. SLB is perfect, but isn't this where Burfict plays? I'd move Vontaze inside.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

4. 112. Mark Walton  [ RB ] Miami (FL)

Walton is a stud. This pick hurts me to my core as a Browns fan, but maybe this means Joe Mixon's punk @$$ gets less carries which would make me happy. Walton is good in every area and will contribute as a rookie.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

5. 151. Davontae Harris  [ CB ] Illinois State

No clue who this is.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

5. 158. Andrew Brown  [ DE ] Virginia

Elite pick in the 5th round. I had Andrew Brown in my top 50 players. At 158, he's robbery. He has every tool necessary to dominate in the NFL. Virginia's scheme didn't allow him to flash his athleticism as much because he was playing in a very gap-sound defense that asked him to stack/shed more than penetrate.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

5. 170. Darius Phillips  [ CB ] Western Michigan

No clue.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

7. 249. Logan Woodside  [ QB ] Toledo

Another elite pick for the 7th round. Woodside was someone I was convinced would go in the 4th round, if not sooner. He has everything you could want in a QB other than prototypical size. He's smart, decently athletic, has a good arm, and is very accurate in the pocket and on the move.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

7. 252. Rod Taylor  [ G ] Ole Miss

No clue who this is.

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

7. 253. Auden Tate  [ WR ] Florida State

Tate is a jump ball nightmare. He's never "open", but he's also never really "covered" either. I think he carves out a nice role for the Bengals as a jump ball red-zone WR. They needed another big-bodied WR to pair with Green/Ross/Boyd.

 

 

I was prepared to crap on the Bengals being this high, but I guess I didn't realize how good their draft really was. They got 4 major steals and didn't really pick anyone I wasn't a fan of that I had actually watched tape on. Damn it.

[Calvert28]

Wow I thought for sure Bengals would have been top 5. Anyone they reached on were very slight reaches IMO. Billy Price IMO could very well be the best offensive linemen from this draft class with his skill set, and toughness. Absolutely loved the Hubbard and Jefferson picks which I don't consider reaches, actually I thought Hubbard should have gone early 2nd. Andrew Brown could be the steal of this draft class though. He has first round talent, but the dude completely underwhelms on film. Not sure if he's just lazy or Virginia was completely inept on how to use his talent. But he did not perform up to expectations, 5th is where he should have been draft. Tate was a terrific pick up. Could be a Maques Colston type pickup if he is used right. I know he ran a 4.6 at the combine. But so did Antonio Brown.

This was a terrific draft imo. Only reason why I would not have had it higher is the number of boom or bust picks they took.

[INbengalfan]

Nice bengals draft write up.  The funny thing about this one is that many fans are down on it because it lacks shiny new toys.  But this is the exact meat and potatoes kind of draft they needed.  Price was once argued as possibly the top C pick, until the pec injury.  That has mostly healed and he's on his way to be cleared by camp.  Not only that, we also got Cordy Glenn by trading back.  I would have bet a lot of money on getting a second lineman, but apparently they had ythose available ranked lower than the guys they took.  Bates gives us a rangy center fielder.  Jefferson and Hubbard provide rotational depth that can develop into much more down the road.  Walden caused a few to scrath their heads, but he will be the special teams replacement for Peerman on all four teams, plus provide a reliable backup to Gio Bernard, who has a history of minor dinges that lkeads to a missed game here and there.  Plus, many complained about his slow 40 time, but he is coming off a major ankle injury, so assuming he fully recovers, he will be fine.  tate seems destined for the practice squad, but we do have a lot of smaller WRs , so maybe he lands a spot.  Brown was an absolute steal, based on projection.  UVA played him a lot as a 5t, and that's just not his best spot.  he will be Atkins' backup as a 3t.  He tore up the Senior Bowl there, so if that holds, he has an extremely bright future.  The two CBs offer unique skills.  One looks destined for the slot, the other to special teams on coverage and returns.  Taylor seems like a PS guy that will get the chance to develop and move to the roster down the road s a versatile backup type.

[TheVillain112]

2 hours ago, Calvert28 said:

Andrew Brown could be the steal of this draft class though. He has first round talent, but the dude completely underwhelms on film. Not sure if he's just lazy or Virginia was completely inept on how to use his talent. But he did not perform up to expectations, 5th is where he should have been draft.

Andrew Brown is the guy I'm lower on than most.  As you said his film was completely underwhelming.  I get that Virginia's scheme did him no favors, but even then he looked bad. Got pushed around by Tackles and TEs from Navy.

I hope I'm completely wrong about him...