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Goldfish's Way Too Early Draft Rankings 2018 (Tampa Bay at 1)

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27 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think Davenport is going to be an elite NFL DL. I had him ranked #6 overall, ahead of Chubb.

With no doubts?   I get he's got the highest upside...but man, so raw.   I don't have a problem with a team going with a 1st rounder, even though I'd take Landry over him...but 2 firsts?  You have to be dead sure.   I'm not there.  But I get NO is (and by your statement, you too).   All good, we'll see.

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Just now, Broncofan said:

With no doubts?   I get he's got the highest upside...but man, so raw.   I don't have a problem with a team going with a 1st rounder, even though I'd take Landry over him...but 2 firsts?  You have to be dead sure.   I'm not there.  But I get NO is (and by your statement, you too).   All good, we'll see.

I was shocked they traded 2 1sts to go get Davenport, but I think he'll eventually be well worth the selection. He's raw, but I do expect him to get immediate sack production--at a high level. I think his bull rush will translate very nicely to the NFL and is something he can demonstrate day 1. My questions about Davenport stem more about his effort in the run game. He looks disinterested in stopping the run, even when it's on the front side. He sets the edge, but doesn't pursue anything that doesn't run right into him. But I wouldn't call his pass rush ability raw. I think he's more of a refined pass rusher than Chubb is right now despite not being as good of an overall player.

I don't think Chubb gets a lot of sack production. He's not as explosive as some of the league's elite pass rushers, nor does he just overwhelm guys with a bull rush. He's solid at every area, but his only special trait is his tenacity. That's great, but I don't think it will help him get sack production. Chubb and Davenport are like polar opposites in terms of what they're good at right now. I don't think Chubb's bendy enough to become an elite edge rusher. I think Davenport just needs to stop being so damn lazy and get after it more in the run game. I don't know if Davenport can do that, but it's at least a mental part of the game that can be fixed whereas I don't know if Chubb can ever develop into a smooth edge rusher.

That being said, Chubb has virtually no chance of being a bust. He's at the very least, going to be a solid starter. Davenport could be atrocious, as he's put together a lot of bad tape. Chubb might not make every play and his stats might have been padded by missed assignments in certain games this past season, but you can never question whether or not he's giving effort out there.

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15. New York Giants

Giants_Draft_Football_43402.jpg-61b63_c0

Pre-Draft Needs:

EDGE, OL, RB, QB

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 2

2. 34

3. 66

3. 69

4. 108

5. 139

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 2. Saquon Barkley  [ RB ] Penn State

2. 34. Will Hernandez  [ G ] UTEP

3. 66. Lorenzo Carter  [ LB ] Georgia

3. 69. B. J. Hill  [ DT ] NC State

4. 108. Kyle Lauletta  [ QB ] Richmond

5. 139. R. J. McIntosh  [ DT ] Miami (FL)

 

Best Thing About This Draft:

The best thing about this draft is they picked some really good players. I love some of these players ad I like all of them. It’s a good haul, three picks were in my top 50 players. Goddam it, Gettleman drafted some damn good players and if they all play well then who the hell cares about everything else? He did his job. It's the anti-analytics draft where you just draft good football players and the rest takes care of itself. Maybe he's right and we just think about this stuff too much. Say what you like about Saquon Barkley, he displayed everything you want to see in a modern day NFL back at Penn, including the ability to pass protect at a high level. It’s probably his high skill as a receiver rather than his gift as a runner that will set him apart at the next level. He’s that rare three down back you can build your whole offense around. He's a great guy off the field too by all accounts. He's just an annoyingly good prospect. 

Worst Thing About This Draft:

So, they had three options at the 2 spot. One, draft a quarterback believing the narrative that the end is around the corner for Eli. You’ll have the pick of whatever is remaining after Cleveland have made their selection. Two, sell the pick to the highest bidder and make away like sensible bandits. There’s some holes to fill, big holes. Let’s fill those holes. Three, make a pick on someone who does not play quarterback. Gettleman kept telling us option 3 was the best option, we knew he was lying, GM's lie about this stuff all the time. Option 3 was the worst option, wasn’t it? He was trying to throw the scent off the quarterback he loved the most, or the huge haul of picks he was about to land. Only he wasn’t.

I mean, I love Saquon Barkley – you cannot not love Barkley. But man you kinda have to question the value given that he plays at a position which has such a low conversion of second getting contracts and could eventually cost the team 18m if he gets to that 5th year should his career extend that far. That’s not even taking into consideration the prospect that Eli could play like Eli’s corpse again. What if Sam Darnold starts ripping it up across the river? Or, if Josh Rosen balls out in Arizona? Or, if Lamar Jackson runs rings around the AFC North? Or, if Josh Allen throws a football in Buffalo that never even lands? 

And what about the draft haul they could have got at option 2? You might not have to field John Jerry and Ereck Flowers next year. You can set-up your roster with cheap draft picks at a number of spots for for the foreseeable. 

Late Round Gem:

RJ Mcintosh – Declared early out of Miami, he’s a physical fit on the defensive line of James Bettcher’s scheme. He likes to have his tall trees inside. McIntosh isn’t a great run defender right now, but has some explosion off the snap and can get upfield. He could develop into a attacking option on a revamped line.

What Else?

Will Hernandez was excellent value at 34. Devastating blocker in a booth and can create space in crowded areas. Played awesome all year and won multiple end of season awards on an absolutely dreadful team that lost every single game. I like that in a prospect. Lorenzo Carter has some pretty intriguing upside as an outside pass-rusher. Guys at 6’5 and 250 shouldn’t be able to run under 4.5 second and jump out of the gym. There are some fairly obvious echoes of Leonard Floyd, coming out of Georgia. BJ Hill played well at nose guard at NC State, where he was also team captain. Kyle Lauletta, who I like as an accurate short to mid-range passer, was lower than I thought he would land - but I didn't think he would land here. I don’t know what his selection says about him, Eli or Davis Webb. 

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I do like/love every guy that the giants took. But it feels like such a mistake to not take a QB there. The question ends up how good does this draft class need to be to not be a disappointment for missing out on a franchise QB. 

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I was shocked they traded 2 1sts to go get Davenport, but I think he'll eventually be well worth the selection. He's raw, but I do expect him to get immediate sack production--at a high level. I think his bull rush will translate very nicely to the NFL and is something he can demonstrate day 1. My questions about Davenport stem more about his effort in the run game. He looks disinterested in stopping the run, even when it's on the front side. He sets the edge, but doesn't pursue anything that doesn't run right into him. But I wouldn't call his pass rush ability raw. I think he's more of a refined pass rusher than Chubb is right now despite not being as good of an overall player.

I don't think Chubb gets a lot of sack production. He's not as explosive as some of the league's elite pass rushers, nor does he just overwhelm guys with a bull rush. He's solid at every area, but his only special trait is his tenacity. That's great, but I don't think it will help him get sack production. Chubb and Davenport are like polar opposites in terms of what they're good at right now. I don't think Chubb's bendy enough to become an elite edge rusher. I think Davenport just needs to stop being so damn lazy and get after it more in the run game. I don't know if Davenport can do that, but it's at least a mental part of the game that can be fixed whereas I don't know if Chubb can ever develop into a smooth edge rusher.

That being said, Chubb has virtually no chance of being a bust. He's at the very least, going to be a solid starter. Davenport could be atrocious, as he's put together a lot of bad tape. Chubb might not make every play and his stats might have been padded by missed assignments in certain games this past season, but you can never question whether or not he's giving effort out there.

Yeah Chubb’s profile IMO  is somewhere between Clowney college and pro version post-Injury.   A terror in the run game.   In the pass rush game he will create problems with good matchups but top OL should at least keep him at bay long enough to avoid sacks.   He lacks the bend that Von has and certainly not the short area quickness.  Besides tenacity though his balance to keep his feet under him at all times and his hand-fighting skills are excellent.  He will succeed in pass rush if he’s the Robin to Von’s Batman.  But not as the foundation player alone.   

If Von isn’t playing I think Chubb’s lack of short area quickness and bend gets him creating pressure with his motor, hand-fighting prowess and technique - but the difference between pressure and sacks lies in that ability to win quickly (except with coverage sacks and bad OL play).   In that respect Chubb’s landing spot is ideal - he needs a Batman for his Robin-type skills as a pass rusher to play up.   But his overall play will be excellent across the board.   I still think Rosen was the right call at 1.5 but barring that can’t complain about Chubb at 1.5.   I know CLE had Ogbah and Garrett but I suspect Chubb vs. Ward at 1.4 (esp. given CLE had the capital to get a top 4 CB later in Rd2) will be hotly debated for a while. 

Edited by Broncofan

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On 5/4/2018 at 7:32 PM, goldfishwars said:

19. LA Chargers

16636324_G.jpg?auto=webp&disable=upscale

Pre-Draft Needs:

DL, LB, QB, RB

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 17

2. 48

3. 84

4. 119

5. 155

6. 191

7. 251

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 17. Derwin James  [ S ] Florida State

2. 48. Uchenna Nwosu  [ LB ] USC

3. 84. Justin Jones  [ DT ] NC State

4. 119. Kyzir White  [ S/LB ] West Virginia

5. 155. Scott Quessenberry  [ C ] UCLA

6. 191. Dylan Cantrell  [ WR ] Texas Tech

7. 251. Justin Jackson  [ RB ] Northwestern

 

Best Thing About This Draft:

Derwin James, by quite some distance. That was one of my favorite picks in the entire draft and it’s kind of weird that he just fell all the way into their laps at 17. He really is a defensive weapon that can be lined up in a number of spots for any team with a creative defensive mind pulling the strings. The Chargers got good play from their crop of safeties last year and you could argue Derwin is a bit of a luxury there, but with Vita Vea and Da’Ron Payne off the board it was probably sensible to not overthink it.  

Worst Thing About This Draft:

If I was focussed on helping my team stop the run next year, which has been a problem for this team, I’m not sure the obvious answer would come in the form of Uchenna Nwosu and Justin Jones, not that I dislike either player. People couldn’t really decide if Nwosu would be better at edge or slotted inside. There’s stuff to like, he’s some ability as a speed rusher and is fluid enough to drop. My guess is the Chargers will just mix it up a bit. I didn’t like Justin Jones as much as say, Deadrin Senat or Harrison Phillips, who both went after him in the same round. He's a strong and fairly active rotational level interior lineman who probably won’t offer an awful lot as a pass-rusher. As for other needs, there were no additional offensive line picks and the tackle spots continue to look thin outside of the starting pair of Okung and Barksdale.

Late Round Gem:

Dylan Cantrell – Ranked in the 99.8th percentile for NFL wide receivers after a pretty ridiculous set of results at the Combine, although you don't really see all of that on tape.. At 24, he’s not one of the youngest receivers in the class, but he’s got ideal outside receiver size and, in fact, it’s his size rather than his speed that stands out on film. He’s got the tools to become a red zone threat.

What Else?

Kyzir White played all over the place at West Virginia, dime linebacker, safety and corner. He was a team captain for his college team and was best known for his ability to make big hits coming down hill. I think he was announced as a linebacker, so that might be where he's going to fit in. He's kind of a weird guy to watch move, not the smoothest. Scott Quessenberry is a highly athletic, but underpowered center. It makes sense to continue to build options with Mike Pouncey arriving to fill in at center carrying some health concerns. Justin Jackson was hugely productive during a long career Northwestern, potentially he could be the scatback they’ve been looking for since Danny Woodhead left – but there’s a lot of tread on the tyres and he’s got a very slight frame.

So I think you're misconsruing what we need against the run.  For the most part, we weren't gashed up the middle, but what also made us really bad, was that we were in either a nickel or dime package defense a LOT.  I think Gus really wants this defense to be really fast and athletic moreso than big and strong.  Last year, a good chunck of the time was spent with Jatavis brown (5'11" 220), Adrian Phillips (5'11" 210) and Jhalil Addae (5'9" 190) at LB.  We changed that to the point where we're going to go with 2 6'2" 220lb safety/LB's rather than the other 2 safeties. I think his idea of this defense was to make athleticism and speed the focus, even on inside runs.  To accomplish getting better vs the run, we really didn't want to just load up on guys that are 1 dimensional run stuffers, but just go with a better version of the defense we've been running.  It'll likely mean a lot more 8-man boxes (and therefore a lot of Uchenna Nwosu stepped down on the edge like Emanuel did last year), with Derwin playing in the box over a TE, but with our CB group, that's completely fine.  I REALLY like White, and compare him pretty favorably to Su'a Cravens at LB (and his numbers are almost exactly the same from the combine/pro days), and he should be interesting to see how he works out as a Will alongside Jatavis.

They seem to be embracing the "challenge the OC to stick with the run" strategy, as that requires a lot of patience, and we have a secondary and pass rush that makes throwing the ball an absolute nighmare, and now with 2 more guys that can match up 1v1 on RB's or TE's (which is something that has killed us the last year or two), we're going to be a lot better equipped to throw guys in the box and stop the run that way.

We'll see how it works out but I'm a really big fan of this draft and I see a pretty defined role for almost all of these guys.

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I really dislike grading a team's draft based on who they didn't take, especially if they didn't reach. @goldfishwars, you said it best when you said "Goddam it, Gettleman drafted some damn good players and if they all play well then who the hell cares about everything else?". Match that up with the lack of talent in many areas on the team, and I love the approach to this draft. Barkley wasn't just the #1 player on the Giants board, he was the consensus #1 on everyone's board. If the biggest issue someone can take with this draft is that pick, taking the #1 overall player at #2, we did a pretty good job. 

Gettleman said at his presser after night 1 that they tried to fall in love with a quarterback, but realized if they were forcing themselves to do that, it wasn't going to work out. 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

I really dislike grading a team's draft based on who they didn't take, especially if they didn't reach. @goldfishwars, you said it best when you said "Goddam it, Gettleman drafted some damn good players and if they all play well then who the hell cares about everything else?". Match that up with the lack of talent in many areas on the team, and I love the approach to this draft. Barkley wasn't just the #1 player on the Giants board, he was the consensus #1 on everyone's board. If the biggest issue someone can take with this draft is that pick, taking the #1 overall player at #2, we did a pretty good job. 

Gettleman said at his presser after night 1 that they tried to fall in love with a quarterback, but realized if they were forcing themselves to do that, it wasn't going to work out. 

The Giants draft hurts my head. Based purely on the quality of players they took it was excellent, but I’m not sure it’s a path I would have gone down. 

 

1 hour ago, Duffman57 said:

So I think you're misconsruing what we need against the run.  For the most part, we weren't gashed up the middle, but what also made us really bad, was that we were in either a nickel or dime package defense a LOT.  I think Gus really wants this defense to be really fast and athletic moreso than big and strong.  Last year, a good chunck of the time was spent with Jatavis brown (5'11" 220), Adrian Phillips (5'11" 210) and Jhalil Addae (5'9" 190) at LB.  We changed that to the point where we're going to go with 2 6'2" 220lb safety/LB's rather than the other 2 safeties. I think his idea of this defense was to make athleticism and speed the focus, even on inside runs.  To accomplish getting better vs the run, we really didn't want to just load up on guys that are 1 dimensional run stuffers, but just go with a better version of the defense we've been running.  It'll likely mean a lot more 8-man boxes (and therefore a lot of Uchenna Nwosu stepped down on the edge like Emanuel did last year), with Derwin playing in the box over a TE, but with our CB group, that's completely fine.  I REALLY like White, and compare him pretty favorably to Su'a Cravens at LB (and his numbers are almost exactly the same from the combine/pro days), and he should be interesting to see how he works out as a Will alongside Jatavis.

They seem to be embracing the "challenge the OC to stick with the run" strategy, as that requires a lot of patience, and we have a secondary and pass rush that makes throwing the ball an absolute nighmare, and now with 2 more guys that can match up 1v1 on RB's or TE's (which is something that has killed us the last year or two), we're going to be a lot better equipped to throw guys in the box and stop the run that way.

We'll see how it works out but I'm a really big fan of this draft and I see a pretty defined role for almost all of these guys.

Hey you know your team better than me, thanks for the post. So much of the talk about the Chargers draft needs pre draft was centered around the need for a big body on the line (hence the links to Vea and Payne) and someone who could bang at linebacker. Those were described as fundamental missing pieces on an otherwise great roster, so that was the narrative I was working with.

Edited by goldfishwars

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12 minutes ago, goldfishwars said:

Hey you know your team better than me, thanks for the post. So much of the talk about the Chargers draft needs pre draft was centered around the need for a big body on the line (hence the links to Vea and Payne) and someone who could bang at linebacker. Those were described as fundamental missing pieces on an otherwise great roster, so that was the narrative I was working with.

Yeah, I can see why people wanted that (see a bad run D=they need big physical players), but that was really never the rout  we were going to go.  The most plugged in source out there for the Chargers draft stuff is Kyle Posey, and he was saying that they didn't even have Payne/Vea as their top DT. If they went DT it would've been Tavern Bryan (and they were seriously considering him over James FWIW....they liked him that much).  But that itself tells you a lot about what they want to be on defense.  They want a ton of athletes flying all over the field at every position.  I think our ability to stop the run is going to be reliant on bodies flying to the ball and tackling, rather than guys sitting around and trying to bang with OL's.  All of the guys we got are really athletic, but also VERY aggressive, which bodes well for that type of game. That just seems to be the rout that more successful teams have been going lately, more disruptive athletes and less block holding big guys, so hopefully we can build off that.

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Posted (edited)

@goldfishwars strong work as in prior years.  Even if they aren’t exactly as I’d had them in my mind I don’t put all 32 teams to pen and paper with rationale and arguments made.  That’s an altogether different level of commitment Much respect to you and all that do.  

I’m curious - you have them 1-32.   Do you ever tier them in groups first and if so, have you thought about posting that tiering at the end?  It may not matter as much who is 16-19 if they all belong in one group (or another range).   That might help some of the differences in opinion about rank that seem really like nitpicking (although it probably also creates more passionate arguments if a controversial tier choice comes in to a fan base lol).  

Edited by Broncofan

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Barkley was the best player in the draft. They made the right decision 

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14. Atlanta Falcons

calvin-ridley.jpg

Pre-Draft Needs:

DL, WR, CB

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 26

2. 58

3. 90

4. 126

6. 200

7. 244

7. 256

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 26. Calvin Ridley  [ WR ] Alabama

2. 58. Isaiah Oliver  [ CB ] Colorado

3. 90. Deadrin Senat  [ DT ] South Florida

4. 126. Ito Smith  [ RB ] Southern Miss

6. 194. Russell Gage  [ WR ] LSU

6. 200. Foyesade Oluokun  [ S ] Yale

Best Thing About This Draft:

Thomas Dimitroff can be very aggressive on the first day of the draft, to ensure he snags his man. This year, he let the draft come to him and pretty much went BPA for the first two rounds. Why not? The Falcons have a nice looking roster, it’s pretty well stacked across the board so focussing on quality makes a lot of sense. Taven Bryan look destined to become the pick until Ridley slid in their direction and I love this fit and how skill-set meshes with the other receivers on the roster. He’s a silky smooth route runner, who separates extremely well at the top of routes and could be handful in one on one coverage on an offense that likes to move their receivers around.

Worst Thing About This Draft:

I suppose, you could argue that just the one pick at defensive tackle when two might have been a better. I really quite liked what I saw out of Deadrin Senat, but they might be relying on him to be ready to go. Outside of Grady Jarrett, you’re looking at guys like Jack Crawford, Garrison Smith and Joey Ivey to contribute.

Late Round Gem:

Foyesade Oluokun  - Another big-time pro day winner that posted some very interesting speed and quickness times. He can play some safety or linebacker and fits the athletic profile of recent draft picks that have gone in to impress Atlanta.

What Else?

Isaiah Oliver sort of landed on their laps in the 2nd round, somewhere he probably wasn’t expected to be. This is a good landing spot for him as the scheme should be able to show off what he can do well, use his length to press guys and run down field shoulder to shoulder if he needs to. Corner didn’t seem like an obvious need, but the Falcons obviously felt vulnerable there. Back on Senat, he’s a thickly built tank who had an excellent Shrine Game week. His game actually reminded me somewhat of Grady Jarrett, so those two should be pretty interchangeable. Ito Smith gives the team another useful ball catcher out of the back-field and he’s got some special ability with space in front of him. Russell Gage kind of passed me by, from what I’ve heard he’s a special teams pick-up.

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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

@goldfishwars strong work as in prior years.  Even if they aren’t exactly as I’d had them in my mind I don’t put all 32 teams to pen and paper with rationale and arguments made.  That’s an altogether different level of commitment Much respect to you and all that do.  

I’m curious - you have them 1-32.   Do you ever tier them in groups first and if so, have you thought about posting that tiering at the end?  It may not matter as much who is 16-19 if they all belong in one group (or another range).   That might help some of the differences in opinion about rank that seem really like nitpicking (although it probably also creates more passionate arguments if a controversial tier choice comes in to a fan base lol).  

Yeah good call, might try that. 

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19 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

16. Miami Dolphins

SPORTS-FBN-DRAFT-25-FT.JPG

Pre-Draft Needs:

LB, OL, DL, TE, QB

What They Had Heading into the Draft:

1. 11

2. 42

3. 73

4. 123

4. 131

6. 209

7. 227

7. 229

 

What They Had Leaving The Draft:

1. 11. Minkah Fitzpatrick  [ S ] Alabama

2. 42. Mike Gesicki  [ TE ] Penn State

3. 73. Jerome Baker  [ LB ] Ohio State

4. 123. Durham Smythe  [ TE ] Notre Dame

4. 131. Kalen Ballage  [ RB ] Arizona State

6. 209. Cornell Armstrong [ CB ] Southern Miss

7. 227. Quentin Poling  [ LB ] Ohio

7. 229. Jason Sanders  [ K ] New Mexico

Best Thing About This Draft:

They drafted a bunch of athletic players who were built for the modern sub-package game, this is a between-the-numbers draft from top to bottom. Miami are a team clearly thinking ahead about where the game might be heading. Not many people matched Minkah with Miami pre draft, but clearly he fits the personality of the type of player they are looking to get in the building after a recent in-house personality cleanse. He’s a versatile defensive player who can match pattern with running backs and tight ends alike. It’s a hugely important defensive weapon to have right now and one probably made with one eye on the Patriots.

Worst Thing About This Draft:

No picks spent on an offensive line lacking in quality, health and depth – that was a bit of surprise. According to the depth chart, they will be fielding an inside trio of the embers of Josh Sitton, Daniel Kilgore and Jesse Davis who was fairly solid for them in spot duty last year. Interior defensive line is also thin in the wake of Suh’s departure although they did recently trade for Akeem Spence. 

Late Round Gem:

Quentin Poling – Another smaller run and chase linebacker with impressive athleticism. He was a little under the radar at Ohio, but was very productive there and has the chance to make his name on special teams and then potentially in sub packages. 

What Else?

Mike Gesicki drew plenty of headlines for his insane workout at the combine, but was a productive part of the Penn State passing game and caught 9 touchdowns last season. He’s really an oversized slot in the mold of Evan Engram who has seen some early success in his career. Jermome Baker is a run and chase linebacker from Ohio State, he’s got some real speed and also some spotty play in his locker - but should help upgrade a thin linebacker spot alongside his old teammate Raekwon McMillan. Durham Smythe is the most tight end named prospect of all time, a blocker who’ll help the offensive line out and help clear out room for the running game. Kalen Ballage was one of the draft’s enigmas, a big dude who wins in the small game as a receiver. He’s not really a hammer compliment to Kenyon Drake, just kind of more of the same from a different body. I think he'll have a better NFL career than at Arizona State where they just didn't know what to do with him. Miami drafted Jason Sanders who immediately slots in as the team's place kicker, the fact he went ahead of undrafted Eddy Pineiro was a surprise to some. He kicked 25 out of 35 attempts at New Mexico State there last year, which clearly isn't earth shattering, but clearly has something they like. I know next to nothing about Cornell Armstrong. 

I think they feel good about some of the in-house interior guys they've brought in over the years. Would have preferred some more youth along the OL but that probably isn't a good ideal with your QB coming off an injury. Besides Ja'Wuan James, what would qualify the OL to be lacking in health? .

The interior DL is thin in terms of impact right? Because I see four good rotational DTs, five if you want to include William Hayes. 

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13 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

I think Davenport is going to be an elite NFL DL. I had him ranked #6 overall, ahead of Chubb.

And maybe he will, but it doesn't change the fact that the Saints gave up a TON to get him.  I think this is a situation where we judge the trade a year from now much differently than 5+ years down the road.  If you're giving up a 1st round pick in the future, you need to get immediate production from that player AND you need to have team success for it to be considered a success.  I'm skeptical of that.

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