Will new WRs be better than last years rookies?

[CWood21]

2 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

Nice rant.  Pull your undies out of your butt now. 

The only thing I compared them about was that it sometimes takes 3 years for a WR to show.  I admitted Davis didn't have Adams talent, but I think you were more interested in complaining again.  Davis was a 4th round pick and IF he is going to show anything worth keeping it'll be this year.

I mean, I'd hardly call that a rant or that he's got his panties in a wad.  He's right.  There's not really much that connects Davante Adams to Trevor Davis aside from the fact that they're both Packers WRs.

[Joe]

1 hour ago, ChaRisMa said:

Yancey dropped weight this offseason to help him run routes. Sounds like he is showing discipline and a commitment to his craft.

Also, forget about Trevor Davis. He can’t play WR (too small) and Jaire Alexander will run circles around him in the punt game.

I want nothing to do with Alexander in the return game. Stick Valdez-Scantling back there...

[AlexGreen#20]

1 hour ago, ChaRisMa said:

Yancey dropped weight this offseason to help him run routes. Sounds like he is showing discipline and a commitment to his craft.

Also, forget about Trevor Davis. He can’t play WR (too small) and Jaire Alexander will run circles around him in the punt game.

The 6'1 WR is too small but the 5'10 CB is going to run rings around him?

Also, STARTING CBS SHOULDN'T BE RETURNING PUNTS

[Joe]

Davis has a gangly frame, but he's certainly not too small to play the position. 

[Gopackgonerd]

1 hour ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The 6'1 WR is too small but the 5'10 CB is going to run rings around him?

Also, STARTING CBS SHOULDN'T BE RETURNING PUNTS

He got hurt on special teams too, prob don't wanna repeat that.

[ChaRisMa]

3 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

The 6'1 WR is too small but the 5'10 CB is going to run rings around him?

Also, STARTING CBS SHOULDN'T BE RETURNING PUNTS

Regarding Davis, it's two separate conversations.

The first is as a WR. When he got here he was a skinny speedster with a limited route tree, okay hands, and a severe lack of physicality in his DNA... Has he developed any weakness? Developed into a role of any kind? No, He still can't beat defenders in any way other than getting a runway and going deep. Speed still doesn't translate underneath. Still not strong enough to handle DBs.

The second conversation is as a KR/PR. Statistically, yes, he was the 3rd best return average last year as a punt returner. The problem is, calling for a fair catch at your own 5 yard line doesn't affect your return average. Nor does letting the ball bounce at your 30 yard line. You have to actually attempt to return the ball for it to be factored in.  Calling for a fair catch when you should be attempting to return the ball for a short gain looks great on the return mans stats but it sure as hell doesn't advance the ball. It's leaving yardage on the field, and Davis did a LOT of that from flat out horrible decisions as a punt returner all over the field. Is Trevor Davis a better PR than Tyreek Hill, Christian McCaffery, Jamison Crowder, etc? He had better stats last year. Let's go even further, his 12 yard average last year is better than Dante Hall's 10.4 career average, Devin Hester's 11.7 career average, or Desmond Howards 11.9 career average. Guess we got an all-time great quality PR season last year, right? And on the KR side he's 8th out of 12 players that averaged 1.25 KR/Game with a  long of 34.

If he would just make better decisions I'd be fine with him back there. But he was an idiot on fair catches last year all the way from week 1 through week 17. There is no way someone hasn't explained the basics of punt returning to him, and if he couldn't figure it out over the course of a year, I'm not trusting him to figure it out now. I'd rather try to get through an airport with him than let him stand on his own 15, and back up to make a fair catch on his own 5, or watch the ball bounce on his own 30. Can't do it again. 

Alexander is faster, stronger, more agile, and more intelligent on a football field than Davis. He'd be my pick as a PR with the Depth we have at CB for this year.

[Packerraymond]

3 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Regarding Davis, it's two separate conversations.

The first is as a WR. When he got here he was a skinny speedster with a limited route tree, okay hands, and a severe lack of physicality in his DNA... Has he developed any weakness? Developed into a role of any kind? No, He still can't beat defenders in any way other than getting a runway and going deep. Speed still doesn't translate underneath. Still not strong enough to handle DBs.

The second conversation is as a KR/PR. Statistically, yes, he was the 3rd best return average last year as a punt returner. The problem is, calling for a fair catch at your own 5 yard line doesn't affect your return average. Nor does letting the ball bounce at your 30 yard line. You have to actually attempt to return the ball for it to be factored in.  Calling for a fair catch when you should be attempting to return the ball for a short gain looks great on the return mans stats but it sure as hell doesn't advance the ball. It's leaving yardage on the field, and Davis did a LOT of that from flat out horrible decisions as a punt returner all over the field. Is Trevor Davis a better PR than Tyreek Hill, Christian McCaffery, Jamison Crowder, etc? He had better stats last year. Let's go even further, his 12 yard average last year is better than Dante Hall's 10.4 career average, Devin Hester's 11.7 career average, or Desmond Howards 11.9 career average. Guess we got an all-time great quality PR season last year, right? And on the KR side he's 8th out of 12 players that averaged 1.25 KR/Game with a  long of 34.

If he would just make better decisions I'd be fine with him back there. But he was an idiot on fair catches last year all the way from week 1 through week 17. There is no way someone hasn't explained the basics of punt returning to him, and if he couldn't figure it out over the course of a year, I'm not trusting him to figure it out now. I'd rather try to get through an airport with him than let him stand on his own 15, and back up to make a fair catch on his own 5, or watch the ball bounce on his own 30. Can't do it again. 

Alexander is faster, stronger, more agile, and more intelligent on a football field than Davis. He'd be my pick as a PR with the Depth we have at CB for this year.

I'll take Davis any day. Alexander's work as our starting CB is league's more important than PR work. As you said Davis was 3rd in average and the decisions he made while not great aren't anything I'm worried about.

[Scoremore]

8 minutes ago, ChaRisMa said:

Regarding Davis, it's two separate conversations.

The first is as a WR. When he got here he was a skinny speedster with a limited route tree, okay hands, and a severe lack of physicality in his DNA... Has he developed any weakness? Developed into a role of any kind? No, He still can't beat defenders in any way other than getting a runway and going deep. Speed still doesn't translate underneath. Still not strong enough to handle DBs.

The second conversation is as a KR/PR. Statistically, yes, he was the 3rd best return average last year as a punt returner. The problem is, calling for a fair catch at your own 5 yard line doesn't affect your return average. Nor does letting the ball bounce at your 30 yard line. You have to actually attempt to return the ball for it to be factored in.  Calling for a fair catch when you should be attempting to return the ball for a short gain looks great on the return mans stats but it sure as hell doesn't advance the ball. It's leaving yardage on the field, and Davis did a LOT of that from flat out horrible decisions as a punt returner all over the field. Is Trevor Davis a better PR than Tyreek Hill, Christian McCaffery, Jamison Crowder, etc? He had better stats last year. Let's go even further, his 12 yard average last year is better than Dante Hall's 10.4 career average, Devin Hester's 11.7 career average, or Desmond Howards 11.9 career average. Guess we got an all-time great quality PR season last year, right? And on the KR side he's 8th out of 12 players that averaged 1.25 KR/Game with a  long of 34.

If he would just make better decisions I'd be fine with him back there. But he was an idiot on fair catches last year all the way from week 1 through week 17. There is no way someone hasn't explained the basics of punt returning to him, and if he couldn't figure it out over the course of a year, I'm not trusting him to figure it out now. I'd rather try to get through an airport with him than let him stand on his own 15, and back up to make a fair catch on his own 5, or watch the ball bounce on his own 30. Can't do it again. 

Alexander is faster, stronger, more agile, and more intelligent on a football field than Davis. He'd be my pick as a PR with the Depth we have at CB for this year.

Agree 100%.  Well said.  Davis drove me absolutely nuts back there.  His decision making flat out sucks.  Alexander would be a major weapon returning punts.  MAJOR.  Yes there is a risk of injury but he can get injured on any play.  Put your best guy back there.  

[craig]

I agree with some of Charisma's points, that punt-return-average isn't necessarily very meaningful, when it doesn't factor in decision-making.  Positioning so that a ball doesn't bounce 20 yards, agree those are huge.  Also think that "average" is so heavily impacted by longest play.  He got one big return last year, so his average was great.  Who knows if or when he'll ever have another big play.  Basically last year's "average", or his ranking relative to other guys' averages, has almost no predictive value for upcoming season.  

Score, I don't fully agree with you on the injury thing?  I think punt is more injury-risky than an average snap from scrimmage.  Yes, a guy can get injured anytime.  But I think it's heightened at punt, when you're looking into the sky for a punt, and the opponent has a bunch of guys whose only chance to get on the field and make an impression is to scream downfield and kill you.  So, for me, unless Jaire is WAY better than any options (he may well be....), I'd kinda rather let him focus on corner and let somebody else do punts.  

Counterargument, I don't want too many roster positions gobbled up by ST-only guys, and continue to have special-teams-specialists take roster spots from interesting young prospects that might turn out to be good scrimmage players.  So, Davis makes the roster as a receiver-only, pretty useless as receiver.  V-Scantling, make it as gunner-only, even if he can't really receive either?  How many punt-team ST-specialists do we need?  Especially if the punts from our drafted ST-specialist punter from snaps from our drafted ST-specialist snapper are getting lofted with so much hang time that they'll mostly be fair-catches anyway?  We read last year only 5 of 43 punts got returned, right?  If <20% of the punts are going to be returned anyway, how many punt-team specialists do we need to carry?  

[Jaegybomb]

If neither Davis or Valdes can play WR you keep the return guy. That's pretty simple.

[Leader]

8 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

I'll take Davis any day. Alexander's work as our starting CB is league's more important than PR work. As you said Davis was 3rd in average and the decisions he made while not great aren't anything I'm worried about.

Agree with this.

We just spent our #1 on a projected (and important) starter on our "new" D. One who's backup on D is....murky at the moment. I dont need that player returning kicks/punts cause if he gets hurt in the process - we're back to being screwed on D.....or at some murky point at least. 

IMO Davis has become the new Janis. A player of "intermediate" talents or achievements that proves fertile ground for fans to gush pages and pages of social media angst about - far more angst than the players importance to the team would warrant. Over and over.....then over and over again.....regurgitating the same limited statistical base and on the field performance. Dissecting it....over and over....then over and over again.....down to the short hairs. It must be a "fan" thing.

Davis will be challenged for a roster spot this season - perhaps moreso than previous - which is fine. I'm hopeful his skills have evolved and his production is enhanced - not for any personal reason - but it would be best for the team and organization. We shall see. 

 

 

[Golfman]

Yes

[packfanfb]

18 hours ago, Green19 said:

On packers.com right now... a fluff piece about DeAngelo Yancey. The one interesting take away, for a few weeks there last season Yancey was running routes for Rodgers on scout team.

Doesnt mean much but as it’s been stated before... getting Rodgers trust is the fastest way onto the field. Plus he apparently dropped 10-15 lbs and is running at 210. 

Is there ever an article on Packers.com that isn't a "fluff" piece, lol. It's so bad sometimes. 

[packfanfb]

Pretty simple for me regarding Trevor Davis. He has one shot to make this team and that's as the punt returner, which means, he's not beat out by someone else. I think he has a good shot to hold that position because no one is jumping out as a serious contender to overtake him as the punt returner. MM should be fired if he puts Alexander back there. No one else really comes to mind. 

As a WR, if Davis catches more than 8-10 passes this year, I'll fall out of my chair. It's not going to happen. 

*On a side note, I think Davis' job was saved when the Niners jumped ahead of GB and nabbed Pettis. Have a feeling GB would have taken him in round 2 and that would have been the end of Davis right then and there. 

[craig]

I like many of the fluff pieces.    Hope springs eternal.  

And besides, "fluff" is a pejorative term.  The league is filled with guys who weren't rookie-ready, who got better thereafter.  It's filled with guys who realized they needed some physical makeover; and doing so really did sometimes work.  Often it's adding strength.  In Yancey's case, perhaps it was losing 15 pounds; and adding speed, flexibility, and agility as a result.  Does it work every time, no.  But having guys improve 2nd/3rd year happens so often in the league that it is *NOT* mockable to hope for, and to take it seriously that it might happen again.  

The whole Packer organization is built around D+D.  If hoping for some "+D" is fluff koolaid mockable, then the Packers are doomed.  Future success is heavily dependent on the +D.  

No idea whether Yancey will +D enough to make the roster or to be any good.  He might have a substantial 2nd-year-jump, and still fall well short of the bar.  But I'd sure love to see the Packers having a lot of developmental success with their 2nd/3rd year guys, and of course with the new rookies too.  If Yancey unexpectedly 2nd-year-jumped into usefulness, that would be just great.  Odds aren't great with any of Yancey or Clark or Allison or the rookies individually.  But somebody is going to need to unexpectedly become surprisingly useful.