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Will new WRs be better than last years rookies?


James Lofton

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14 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Jordy didn't answer the bell on the outside either. And with only 1 slot position available, Packers chose Cobb over Nelson

End of story.

Its not a difficult story to understand, but a very difficult one for the fan base to accept

Partially because we like reading fairy tales..instead of the brutal reality. :)

Nelson being the most loved Packers player since Driver probably didn't help the situation with Packers fans. My whole family lost their crap because of losing Jordy. The simple truth is Jordy's best years are behind him. Although there still is going to be a couple productive seasons left he just isn't an answer on the outside anymore. 

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21 hours ago, Shanedorf said:

From PackersNews and Eric Baranczyk

"Being out of the playoff race the last two games gave the Packers’ young receivers a chance to show they could replace Jordy Nelson or Randall Cobb in the top-three rotation next year, but none of them did that "

 

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

...and yet the team still got rid of Jordy.

 

32 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Jordy didn't answer the bell on the outside either. And with only 1 slot position available, Packers chose Cobb over Nelson

End of story.

Its not a difficult story to understand, but a very difficult one for the fan base to accept

Partially because we like reading fairy tales..instead of the brutal reality. :)

 

15 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Nelson being the most loved Packers player since Driver probably didn't help the situation with Packers fans. My whole family lost their crap because of losing Jordy. The simple truth is Jordy's best years are behind him. Although there still is going to be a couple productive seasons left he just isn't an answer on the outside anymore. 

Jordy answered the "bell" just fine with Rodgers under center.  Not saying he was going to revert back and be a 1300 yard receiver.  But 2018 Jordy is better than 2018 Allison or any rookie we drafted this year.

I'd argue if he (Jordy) is to be productive in the league...the best of Jordy going forward was with #12 in Green Bay.

Brutal reality is this...GB wanted to move on from Jordy...and they did.  They did not adequately replace him, yet.  Key word being yet.

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25 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Nelson being the most loved Packers player since Driver probably didn't help the situation with Packers fans. My whole family lost their crap because of losing Jordy. The simple truth is Jordy's best years are behind him. Although there still is going to be a couple productive seasons left he just isn't an answer on the outside anymore. 

Who is, though?  If receivers were easy to find, teams wouldn't be spending $14M per year on those with inconsistent production in FA.

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Here's McGinn's year end write-up for what its worth to you

JORDY NELSON (77% snaps): "Didn’t do anything in training camp, exhibition games or in 806 snaps. The only judgment, at 32 and in his 10th season, is that Nelson has hit the proverbial wall. Lived on his six TD passes from Aaron Rodgers in the first five games to elude scrutiny over his ongoing collapse. Other than a 32-yard “free” play against the unsuspecting Seahawks, his TD passes measured 1, 3, 4, 8 and 10 yards. Never caught another in what was by far his poorest season.

Rodgers’ injury was just a convenient excuse.

He couldn’t beat press coverage or separate downfield. He also developed a disturbing habit of falling down for little or no reason when the ball arrived. His average gain after the catch of 2.30 was the lowest of his career; on 67.9% of his 53 catches he gained two or fewer yards post-catch. Of all WRs with 25 or more receptions, Nelson ranked 3rd worst in yards per catch at 9.1. Late in the season his hands and blocking deserted him, too. His long catch from Game 6 on was 17 yards. After averaging 20.7 receptions for 20 or more yards in his last three full seasons Nelson had four in 2017. There’s no reason to bring Nelson back for the final year of his contract at $9.25 million base salary. If the Packers think his legs are gone, release him."

 

I am guessing Jordy will have a nice start to his Raider season while he and his legs are fresh. Then, by December-February he will fade as age saps him and that's when GB needs him most. Id rather invest the TC snaps in an ascending WR to get him up to speed ASAP

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13 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Here's McGinn's year end write-up for what its worth to you

JORDY NELSON (77% snaps): "Didn’t do anything in training camp, exhibition games or in 806 snaps. The only judgment, at 32 and in his 10th season, is that Nelson has hit the proverbial wall. Lived on his six TD passes from Aaron Rodgers in the first five games to elude scrutiny over his ongoing collapse. Other than a 32-yard “free” play against the unsuspecting Seahawks, his TD passes measured 1, 3, 4, 8 and 10 yards. Never caught another in what was by far his poorest season.

Rodgers’ injury was just a convenient excuse.

He couldn’t beat press coverage or separate downfield. He also developed a disturbing habit of falling down for little or no reason when the ball arrived. His average gain after the catch of 2.30 was the lowest of his career; on 67.9% of his 53 catches he gained two or fewer yards post-catch. Of all WRs with 25 or more receptions, Nelson ranked 3rd worst in yards per catch at 9.1. Late in the season his hands and blocking deserted him, too. His long catch from Game 6 on was 17 yards. After averaging 20.7 receptions for 20 or more yards in his last three full seasons Nelson had four in 2017. There’s no reason to bring Nelson back for the final year of his contract at $9.25 million base salary. If the Packers think his legs are gone, release him."

 

I am guessing Jordy will have a nice start to his Raider season while he and his legs are fresh. Then, by December-February he will fade as age saps him and that's when GB needs him most. Id rather invest the TC snaps in an ascending WR to get him up to speed ASAP

Yup. Exactly this. I didn't think either of Cobb or Jordy were worth their 2018 numbers. Jordy would be a serviceable #3 RZ, 3rd down guy on a dirt cheap deal. That's about it.

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9 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

Who is, though?  If receivers were easy to find, teams wouldn't be spending $14M per year on those with inconsistent production in FA.

My guess is one of Yancey, Moore, Valdes-Scantling, St. Brown, Davis, Allison, Clark, ect is going to step up and play consistently on the outside as a #2. That may seem like wishful thinking but I think at least one of those players is going to be a  good outside WR by the end of the year. The beginning of the year might be a bit rough though. 

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32 minutes ago, Shanedorf said:

Here's McGinn's year end write-up for what its worth to you

JORDY NELSON (77% snaps): "Didn’t do anything in training camp, exhibition games or in 806 snaps. The only judgment, at 32 and in his 10th season, is that Nelson has hit the proverbial wall. Lived on his six TD passes from Aaron Rodgers in the first five games to elude scrutiny over his ongoing collapse. Other than a 32-yard “free” play against the unsuspecting Seahawks, his TD passes measured 1, 3, 4, 8 and 10 yards. Never caught another in what was by far his poorest season.

Rodgers’ injury was just a convenient excuse.

He couldn’t beat press coverage or separate downfield. He also developed a disturbing habit of falling down for little or no reason when the ball arrived. His average gain after the catch of 2.30 was the lowest of his career; on 67.9% of his 53 catches he gained two or fewer yards post-catch. Of all WRs with 25 or more receptions, Nelson ranked 3rd worst in yards per catch at 9.1. Late in the season his hands and blocking deserted him, too. His long catch from Game 6 on was 17 yards. After averaging 20.7 receptions for 20 or more yards in his last three full seasons Nelson had four in 2017. There’s no reason to bring Nelson back for the final year of his contract at $9.25 million base salary. If the Packers think his legs are gone, release him."

 

I am guessing Jordy will have a nice start to his Raider season while he and his legs are fresh. Then, by December-February he will fade as age saps him and that's when GB needs him most. Id rather invest the TC snaps in an ascending WR to get him up to speed ASAP

I agree with that, but...he's still better with #12 in 2018 than Geronimo Allison is....

The question above and the comment made was in regards to talent...not money.

Talent wise, chemistry wise, he's the better second boundary receiver next year.  Factor in the money?  Different story.  Happy they invested in Graham.

Much of his bad year, I put on Hundley.  If #12 were there, he'd have 900 yards, maybe more.  Double digit TD's.  But that isn't what happened.  And here we are.  No real boundary guy ready to take that that #2 role.

"Id rather invest the TC snaps in an ascending WR to get him up to speed ASAP"...  I'm unsure if GB has an ascending WR.

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6 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I agree with that, but...he's still better with #12 in 2018 than Geronimo Allison is....

The question above and the comment made was in regards to talent...not money.

Talent wise, chemistry wise, he's the better second boundary receiver next year.  Factor in the money?  Different story.  Happy they invested in Graham.

Much of his bad year, I put on Hundley.  If #12 were there, he'd have 900 yards, maybe more.  Double digit TD's.  But that isn't what happened.  And here we are.  No real boundary guy ready to take that that #2 role.

"Id rather invest the TC snaps in an ascending WR to get him up to speed ASAP"...  I'm unsure if GB has an ascending WR.

Hundley was definitely part of the problem but at some point you need to trust your system. We couldn't afford to pay both Nelson and Cobb next year. We may not have a true ascending WR but we definitely have a number of them that have potential. You just hope one of them can capitalize on the opportunity.  At the end of the day I don't really feel like WR is a position that's going to drastically change the win/loss column for the Packers. I think we live and die by the health of Aaron Rodgers and the play of our secondary. 

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5 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Hundley was definitely part of the problem but at some point you need to trust your system. We couldn't afford to pay both Nelson and Cobb next year. We may not have a true ascending WR but we definitely have a number of them that have potential. You just hope one of them can capitalize on the opportunity.  At the end of the day I don't really feel like WR is a position that's going to drastically change the win/loss column for the Packers. I think we live and die by the health of Aaron Rodgers and the play of our secondary. 

There are screen shots of a wide open Nelson out there and Hundley flat out missing him...yah, some of the bad year was due to his buddy going down, some was Hundley, and you know what?  I saw times where Nelson flat out look like he either quit, or was injured and not telling anyone.  

Money wise, we knew that had to change.  Wish they would have made him a decent offer to stay one more year.

Agree that we live and die with the health of #12.

Unsure if he even have "potential" in young WR's that are not rookies.  I can get excited about Clark, but I don't think he's ovetaking Geronimo this year...Davis is meh.  Rookies have a lot of promise, but also a lot of work to put in.  It is an odd mix.  GB usually has that ascending player...I just don't see it yet.  Instead I see optimism around rookies, not second and third year guys.

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20 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Unsure if he even have "potential" in young WR's that are not rookies.  I can get excited about Clark, but I don't think he's ovetaking Geronimo this year...Davis is meh.  Rookies have a lot of promise, but also a lot of work to put in.  It is an odd mix.  GB usually has that ascending player...I just don't see it yet.  Instead I see optimism around rookies, not second and third year guys.

I agree sans Clark. Yancey, Davis, and Allison are all limited but you never know. The rookies are all freakish athletes to I do feel more optimism for this. Clark I think may also turn into a pretty competent WR given the opportunity. This sans corner is probably going to be my favorite TC competition. 

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1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

he's still better with #12 in 2018 than Geronimo Allison is

fortunately that's not the only option we have.

While it's possible that Nelson might be ok with Rodgers back, it's also possible that Rodgers would throw the ball too much to a receiver who does little else than catch and fall down with no deep ability.  If a nelson target can become an Adams target, then that's good for the team.  if it can become a better clear out route for cobb or jimmy graham, then that's good for the team.  If it can become a respectable double move on a shot play that actually gets separation, then that's good for the team.

 

At this point Rodgers has a lot of trust in Nelson.  I think that trust is a little misplaced in a mediocre player.

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I would agree that Rodgers seemed to force the ball to Nelson because he didn’t trust the others as much.

He just isn’t able to get the separation anymore, everyone loves to point out his TD numbers but a good many of those came from having good chemistry with Aaron during the scramble drill and not beating his man.

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2 hours ago, vegas492 said:

But 2018 Jordy is better than 2018 Allison or any rookie we drafted this year.

You're probably right, but I'm not sure that Graham + Wilkerson isn't better than Jordy to the team. We've needed a seam-stretching TE since Finley, and Cooks and Bennett were both too injured to fix that. Hopefully Graham can still run and isn't injured, because MM needs that component to put together a legendary offense IMO. 

Wilkerson could easily beast on the DL too. I'm very excited to see how Pettine will use 3 bigs when we've traditionally had 2 on the field in our nickel looks. Either way, we're not comparing Jordy to Allison. We're looking to replace his production with Graham + Allison + DPs. Wilkerson is the icing on the cake here. If we can cut Jordy, keep our offense from tanking, and fix the D... that has to be seen as a win. We'll see how it shakes out. 

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21 minutes ago, blankman0021 said:

You're probably right, but I'm not sure that Graham + Wilkerson isn't better than Jordy to the team. We've needed a seam-stretching TE since Finley, and Cooks and Bennett were both too injured to fix that. Hopefully Graham can still run and isn't injured, because MM needs that component to put together a legendary offense IMO. 

Wilkerson could easily beast on the DL too. I'm very excited to see how Pettine will use 3 bigs when we've traditionally had 2 on the field in our nickel looks. Either way, we're not comparing Jordy to Allison. We're looking to replace his production with Graham + Allison + DPs. Wilkerson is the icing on the cake here. If we can cut Jordy, keep our offense from tanking, and fix the D... that has to be seen as a win. We'll see how it shakes out. 

How is it now Jordy, or Graham+Wilkerson?

The way it worked out, it pretty much was Graham or Jordy...from a money standpoint.

Keeping it real, too, Graham hasn't been a seam stretching tight end for a while now.  The best thing Graham did, albeit in Seattle, was catch short touchdowns.  Exactly the thing that Jordy did well here.  While I hope that Graham can stretch a seam, I'm prepared to not see it, because it hasn't been seen in a while.

I'm not arguing, at all, that Jordy didn't lose steps.  Plural.  He did.  What I am saying is that if he's on the team, he's probably close to a 900 yard wide receiver 2 in the offense.  I'm unsure if you get that out of any other WR, except for Adams.

Very much agree that Adams needed to take over the #1 role.  More targets for him is better.

Am saying that unlike in years past...a great many of them...the GB wide receiving corp is void of talent with those 2nd and 3rd year guys.  In the past we've had Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Cobb and Adams coming up...and we were all excited for them.

Now we've got Allison, Davis, Clark, the drafted (and cut) Yancey and some very good looking rookies, but they are just rookies, I'm looking at 2nd and 3rd year guys.

 

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4 hours ago, Spartacus said:

Nelson being the most loved Packers player since Driver probably didn't help the situation with Packers fans. My whole family lost their crap because of losing Jordy. The simple truth is Jordy's best years are behind him. Although there still is going to be a couple productive seasons left he just isn't an answer on the outside anymore. 

Couldn't agree more, but I don't think a Day 3 WR is an answer either, not for 2018. If we had drafted J'Mon Moore in 2016 instead of Trevor Davis, we'd probably have our 2018 replacement for Jordy Nelson already on the roster. As it stands, however, I still say we need a vet who is not currently on the team. 

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