SemperFeist Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 If Simmons is there in the 2nd round, you sprint to turn in your card. You don’t draft to fill your immediate needs. That’s how you end up with roster like the Vikings did post 2009. Spielman and Zimmer may be on the hotseat to win in 2019, but that can’t stop them from adding the best possible talent. You can’t rely on a rookie class to “save your job”. If that’s what you’re banking on, your bags should already be packed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, SemperFeist said: If Simmons is there in the 2nd round, you sprint to turn in your card. You don’t draft to fill your immediate needs. That’s how you end up with roster like the Vikings did post 2009. Spielman and Zimmer may be on the hotseat to win in 2019, but that can’t stop them from adding the best possible talent. You can’t rely on a rookie class to “save your job”. If that’s what you’re banking on, your bags should already be packed. Aren't we essentially in this position now given the 2-3 needs along the OL and potential departures of Barr and Richardson? The Vikes will be banking on rookies starting from day one and performing well. That's the cost of having a veteran roster no longer on rookie contracts and a $30 million QB. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SemperFeist Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 You're not going to find 5 day one, impact players in the draft. So, you shouldn’t even be worrying about that. I think you’re underestimating the talent currently on the roster along the DL, and at LB. And while the OL needs work, it’s more about the OL coaching and scheme than it is about the players. Plus, filling those needs is what FA is for. And you don’t need to break the bank to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingsrule Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, SemperFeist said: You're not going to find 5 day one, impact players in the draft. So, you shouldn’t even be worrying about that. I think you’re underestimating the talent currently on the roster along the DL, and at LB. And while the OL needs work, it’s more about the OL coaching and scheme than it is about the players. Plus, filling those needs is what FA is for. And you don’t need to break the bank to do it. No you're at best getting 1 from the draft, maybe 2 if you hit on your second or third round pick. As for free agency, what money is there to work with? We're sitting at maybe $30 million with smart cuts. Sign Barr or Richardson plus other internal FAs (Compton, Easton, Simien, Robinson, Murray?, Bailey?) that amount gets cut in half to $15 million pretty quickly. At most, you're getting two FAs who can be impact starters (Barr, Richardson or outside the roster). The Vikes may have to rely on starting players like Morgan, Johnson (DT) Wilson, Compton or Hughes to make it work financially. Obviously, not all of these players will start, the Vikes just need to be smart about how resources are allocated and what position will have a stop gap starter. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 37 minutes ago, vikingsrule said: Aren't we essentially in this position now given the 2-3 needs along the OL and potential departures of Barr and Richardson? The Vikes will be banking on rookies starting from day one and performing well. That's the cost of having a veteran roster no longer on rookie contracts and a $30 million QB. That's part of the way a good coaching staff earns their pay as well. Nobody has the luxury of being able to coach a roster full of talented veterans at every position. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RpMc Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 hours ago, gopherwrestler said: Wouldn’t be shocked to see him fall farther tbh, off the field issues, multiplied by this is hard to justify spending draft capital on him early. But on the other hand, he’s extremely talented. Will be interesting to follow. His off the field issues, to me, are of a different variety than the receiver that wasn't invited to the combine (name escapes me at the moment). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 hours ago, SemperFeist said: And while the OL needs work, it’s more about the OL coaching and scheme than it is about the players. I keep hearing this argument...that if the Vikings had better OL coaching and scheme then that OL will be basically fine. I do not buy that argument. I think it's part of the equation, but if you don't start with better players in those five needed positions then you have a scheme and coaching that's going to be ineffective with playoff caliber defenses. Do we have to replace all five starting linemen? No. Should the Vikings be thinking about better players as starters and depth...absolutely. I will acknowledge that it's the rare quarterback, running the rare offensive scheme that can overcome deficiencies along the line. The Vikings don't have that sort of quarterback on the roster, nor is there the offensive brain power on the coaching staff to mask the lines' deficiency...even with Kubiak looking over Stefanski's shoulder. I will argue until I take my last breath...the keys to winning a championship have always been, and always will be...excellent defense and excellent offensive line. Those two things open up so many other possibilities. They are the same football fundamentals that George Halas understood in the 20's, Lombardi in the '60's, Noll in the 70's, Walsh in the 80's, Jimmy Johnson in the '90's, and Belichek in this century. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) And it's why the Packers haven't been able to win more than 2 SB titles in the last 25 years despite having back to back HOF QBs, which I've continued to insist should be an indictment of their coaching staffs/management over that span of time. (Packers' fans will probably come in here and think I'm just a bitter Vikings fan, as they have before, but it's none of the sort...if the Vikings had experienced the same situation, it wouldn't change my opinion...if we had been blessed with back to back HOF QBs, I would be bitter with the same outcome) Edited February 12, 2019 by swede700 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 54 minutes ago, Virginia Viking said: I keep hearing this argument...that if the Vikings had better OL coaching and scheme then that OL will be basically fine. I do not buy that argument. I think it's part of the equation, but if you don't start with better players in those five needed positions then you have a scheme and coaching that's going to be ineffective with playoff caliber defenses. Do we have to replace all five starting linemen? No. Should the Vikings be thinking about better players as starters and depth...absolutely Agreed completely. The Vikings primary problem on the offensive line has been the players they have been starting. Some of that is because injury, but the players need to be better. If it were simply a coaching issue we would have been seeing players that leave the Vikings go on to be successful elsewhere in the league. We are not seeing the linemen show much success anywhere else. This thoroughly debunks an argument that coaching has been the main problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDBrocks Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 (edited) We've seen other lineman come here and get worse (Remmers and Reiff). John Sullivan was just starting in the super bowl. The Vikings thought he was done. Matt Kalil never got better. The scouting, coaching, and scheme fit all have a great deal to do with the OL play. I'm not suggesting that the players should be replaced, but I think that the right coaching and scheme can certainly get a lot more out of the current players on the roster than we have witnessed. Edited February 12, 2019 by JDBrocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cearbhall Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, JDBrocks said: We've seen other lineman come here and get worse (Remmers and Reiff). John Sullivan was just starting in the super bowl. The Vikings thought he was done. Matt Kalil never got better. The scouting, coaching, and scheme fit all have a great deal to do with the OL play. I'm not suggesting that the players should be replaced, but I think that the right coaching and scheme can certainly get a lot more out of the currently players on the roster than we have witnessed. I don't know that Reiff and Remmers got worse after coming here. Remmers certainly got worse when he moved to guard. He doesn't have a history there to compare. Remmers was a bit below average at RT for the Vikings but he was always a bit below average before the Vikings brought him back too. Remmers was terrible the year before the Vikings signed him (albeit, he was playing out of position at LT that year). I don't want it to sound like I am convinced the coaching is good enough. I am not. However, what I am convinced of is that the players are not good enough and a possible issue with coaching should not be obfuscating that truth. Without doubt, I think the coaching needs to be looked at too. My offseason plan for fixing the line started with looking at scheme and coaching. That has now been done for the year so it is pointless to push that topic further right now. Now, it is onto getting the players to fit the scheme. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikestyle Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I want Greg Dortch on this football team. Love his potential as our speedy WR3 with big time return abilities. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDakViking Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 I'm coming around to picking Lindstrom in the 1st. Scheme versatile, strong, and consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 10 hours ago, vikingsrule said: As for free agency, what money is there to work with? We're sitting at maybe $30 million with smart cuts. Salary Cap is an absolute myth, any contract that’s no guaranteed they can restructure to make a player happy and make salary cap room. As for finding starters, you absolutely have to get lucky to find 3 immediate starters, typically that involves a 2 offensive lineman and a position player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopherwrestler Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, vikestyle said: I want Greg Dortch on this football team. Love his potential as our speedy WR3 with big time return abilities. Absolutely I am too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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