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2019 Draft Talk


swede700

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1 hour ago, vikestyle said:

This is an honest question as I'm not sure if I am right about this, but doesn't a ZBS cater more to technicians and a power run scheme caters to the big, physical, road grader types? I thought that was the reason a guy like Hernandez wasn't necessarily a fit for us last year.

In the zone the offensive linemen will just take a step to the side and block whoever is there. The punch isn't nearly as important as they don't drive right into the defender like they would in a power man.

ZBS doesn't take as much strength as it takes advantage of mass in motion.

Edited by Cearbhall
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5 hours ago, swede700 said:

I think I've made it clear that I don't like his pro potential.  He may be okay, but there's nothing about him that strikes me as a guy I want to take in the first round...especially when they talk about him as a "technician."  That's code word for "he's not physical."  I want a guy with attitude and who is physical...not a "technician."  This offensive line needs guys with attitude.  

After watching several games of Jonah Williams I was really high on him, but then my enthusiasm dropped a bit after his average combine.  Then I recently read an article comparing Jonah Williams to David Bakhtiari and looking at their draft profiles I think they are actually very similar.  If we can get a player similar to Bakhtiari in this first round then I definitely think he’s worth it.  I’m hoping Ed Oliver, Jonah Williams, or Andre Dillard are there at our pick or else we trade back.

 

https://www.nfl.com/prospects/jonah-williams?id=32195749-4c13-2676-fb3e-2b3d97cbfc66

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/david-bakhtiari?id=2540183

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5 hours ago, swede700 said:

I think I've made it clear that I don't like his pro potential.  He may be okay, but there's nothing about him that strikes me as a guy I want to take in the first round...especially when they talk about him as a "technician."  That's code word for "he's not physical."  I want a guy with attitude and who is physical...not a "technician."  This offensive line needs guys with attitude.  

You are not alone.  Williams actually reminds me of another college LT that came out years ago....  Riley Reiff.  Reiff isn't a bad player but he is average at best.  I will be disappointed if we take him over Dillard or Ford.  

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20 minutes ago, Freakout said:

You are not alone.  Williams actually reminds me of another college LT that came out years ago....  Riley Reiff.  Reiff isn't a bad player but he is average at best.  I will be disappointed if we take him over Dillard or Ford.  

My experience in actually watching prospects doesn't date back to the Reiff draft. How would you have felt about Reiff if he was switched to Guard right away in his career? I am high on Williams' potential inside.

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1 hour ago, Freakout said:

You are not alone.  Williams actually reminds me of another college LT that came out years ago....  Riley Reiff.  Reiff isn't a bad player but he is average at best.  I will be disappointed if we take him over Dillard or Ford.  

If we go OL at 18 then I’m hoping the will play OT for us.  If we are considering an drafting someone to play IOL then I really hope we trade back for Risner, Lindstrom, Bradbury, etc at the bottom of the first or top of the second.  I think that a Riley Reiff comparison would be Jonah Williams floor and I would be content with that kind of production because of the bust rate at OL lately, but I think Williams is better than Reiff.  Their combine numbers are similar, but he plays with better technique and has proven himself against much better competition than Reiff did in college.

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1 minute ago, vikestyle said:

My experience in actually watching prospects doesn't date back to the Reiff draft. How would you have felt about Reiff if he was switched to Guard right away in his career? I am high on Williams' potential inside.

I was higher on Reiff than a lot were when he came out.  I use to be in love with the phrase "technician" and he fit that mold coming out of Iowa.  It would have came down to what scheme / team he ended up on.  I don't think he would have sucked because he has been average as a tackle so my guess is he would have been average at guard.  He would probably struggle some against power and get pushed back more than you want but wouldn't get completely wrecked either.

I am not the biggest fan of moving tackles inside to guard.  It can work but when you start moving 6'6 guys inside they end up losing the leverage battle unless they have the arm length and strength to compensate.  La'el Collins and Kelechi Osemele made the switch but they were much more like Cody Ford coming out than Jonah Williams.  You also have the undersized tackle converts like Zach Martin that have success but then you have Forrest Lamp stuck on the bench for the Chargers despite having better Combine numbers than Martin.  It is a crap shoot for the most part but I am taking the mauling, long armed, puncher over the catching, short armed, technician if I am looking for a tackle to guard convert.  

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13 minutes ago, Kparty15 said:

If we are considering an drafting someone to play IOL then I really hope we trade back for Risner, Lindstrom, Bradbury, etc at the bottom of the first or top of the second.

Why risk losing them if you like them? I understand the want to trade down and get more picks.

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6 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

Why risk losing them if you like them? I understand the want to trade down and get more picks.

I totally agree. If you think that one of those three is going to be a plus starter for two contracts, you take that guy at 18 and don't look back.

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22 minutes ago, VikeManDan said:

Why risk losing them if you like them? I understand the want to trade down and get more picks.

Partially because no prospect is a sure thing and more picks we have a better chance of hitting, but also because I don’t think we would lose one.  I think that if we trade back 5-7 picks then all 3 of them will probably still be on the board and we can use the other 2nd or 3rd round pick to move up in the draft and get another OL or DT.  A move back into that range could give us nearly 200 additional points in the pick trading formula.  I don’t want to reach on guys that will almost definitely still be there several picks later.  If we can move around in the draft correctly then we can more than likely get two guys like Dalton Risner, Chris Lindstrom, Garrett Bradbury, Greg Little, Erik McCoy, Yodney Cajuste, Christian Wilkins, Jaylon Ferguson, Jerry Tillery, Dremont Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Jackson’s Polite, etc.  Instead of reaching on one of those guys and taking a less talented prospect later.

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29 minutes ago, JDBrocks said:

I totally agree. If you think that one of those three is going to be a plus starter for two contracts, you take that guy at 18 and don't look back.

Yep. You don't risk losing a 10 year starter for an extra 4th or 5th. 

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1 minute ago, Kparty15 said:

Partially because no prospect is a sure thing and more picks we have a better chance of hitting, but also because I don’t think we would lose one.  I think that if we trade back 5-7 picks then all 3 of them will probably still be on the board and we can use the other 2nd or 3rd round pick to move up in the draft and get another OL or DT.  A move back into that range could give us nearly 200 additional points in the pick trading formula.  I don’t want to reach on guys that will almost definitely still be there several picks later.  If we can move around in the draft correctly then we can more than likely get two guys like Dalton Risner, Chris Lindstrom, Garrett Bradbury, Greg Little, Erik McCoy, Yodney Cajuste, Christian Wilkins, Jaylon Ferguson, Jerry Tillery, Dremont Jones, Dexter Lawrence, Jackson’s Polite, etc.  Instead of reaching on one of those guys and taking a less talented prospect later.

I don't disagree with the idea of trading back but with Seattle and Houston picking at 21 and 23, they are likely in the market for an OL as well. Plus you'd likely have to worry about teams trading up in front of you to grab those same "falling" players. I'm not opposed to trading down but it comes down to two things.

1. How far down?

2. What are we getting in return?

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Just now, wcblack34 said:

Yep. You don't risk losing a 10 year starter for an extra 4th or 5th. 

My point for trading back was that there was a very good chance that all 3 of those guys would still be available in a trade back and all 3 are 10 year starters.

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1 minute ago, VikeManDan said:

I don't disagree with the idea of trading back but with Seattle and Houston picking at 21 and 23, they are likely in the market for an OL as well. Plus you'd likely have to worry about teams trading up in front of you to grab those same "falling" players. I'm not opposed to trading down but it comes down to two things.

1. How far down?

2. What are we getting in return?

I don’t think Houston take OL in the 1st round.  They just signed Matt Kalil to play LT and they need to upgrade their defense too.  There are a lot of scenarios, but one specifically that I was looking at involved trading our first and second to Oakland for picks 24 and 35.

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