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G08

4 Years of Ryan Pace: Roster Overhaul

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6 minutes ago, dll2000 said:

Those were good moves. 

However, Emery had 4 good picks out of 20.  Long, Jeffrey, Leno, Fuller.  Fuller had one good year - after he was fired.  5 if you count a punter.

Not crazy bad if other ones were decent role players, but they did virtually nothing and had to be prematurely cut to a man.  

Through 2017 Pace has also had 20 picks.

He has hit on 8 of them to some extent.

Jackson, Cohen, Floyd, Whitehair, Bullard, Howard, Goldman, Amos - with Trubisky and Shaheen undecided but promising.  So it could be 10.  

Huge difference.  Pace was drafting higher slots so its not fairly apples to apples.  Still Emery's record was dismal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bullard has been absolutely terrible but I catch your drift

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Just now, beardown3231 said:

Bullard has been absolutely terrible but I catch your drift

He has not been absolutely terrible.  His rookie year was "meh" and last year he had his ups and downs but showed some explosiveness and upside.  He was certainly not terrible in any sense of the word, he just hasn't had a ton of playing time.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, TankWilliams said:

He has not been absolutely terrible.  His rookie year was "meh" and last year he had his ups and downs but showed some explosiveness and upside.  He was certainly not terrible in any sense of the word, he just hasn't had a ton of playing time.

He has 2 sacks in 30 games.

Edited by beardown3231

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He has 2 sacks in 30 games.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017-snap-counts.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2016-snap-counts.htm

 

 

Edit:  

He has 2 sacks in about 700 total snaps.  Hardly a large sample size.  Even still, sacks are not the only metric for whether or not a DT is terrible.

Edited by TankWilliams

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Just now, beardown3231 said:

He just lumped a guy who has 2 sacks in 30 career games in a list of Pace's hits. He's 1) not a hit and 2) for a position that should be generating a few more than 2 sacks, I wouldn't say explosiveness and upside is good enough

 

Hit is maybe strong word.  I tried to qualify it with 'to some extent.'  I am talking about guys that can start for a good team and fill a role.  Bullard has shown talent, promise and flashes in his reps enough for me to include him in the list of hits.   He wasn't starting Unrein was and now Unrein is gone and Bullard is still here.  

Sacks aren't only thing that makes you a good D linemen.  Most 5,4 techs don't get tons of sacks anyway they are run first players.    

Now that Unrein is gone his numbers should go up in any event.  If not we can move him to a miss.

 

 

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1 hour ago, TankWilliams said:

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2017-snap-counts.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/2016-snap-counts.htm

 

 

Edit:  

He has 2 sacks in about 700 total snaps.  Hardly a large sample size.  Even still, sacks are not the only metric for whether or not a DT is terrible.

He's a DE in a 3-4. If sacks aren't good enough, show me a metric where he's been explosive and has shown upside.

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10 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

He's a DE in a 3-4. If sacks aren't good enough, show me a metric where he's been explosive and has shown upside.

You don't need metrics. A DE's primary responsibilities in a 3-4 defense are to play the run and eat up blockers in the pass game to allow the outside rushers time to play off of it. Sack numbers are a terrible way to gauge a 3-4 DE play. Rarely do you have players at that position who can dominate in both facets. Especially those who primarily play on the right like Bullard does. 
 

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

You don't need metrics. A DE's primary responsibilities in a 3-4 defense are to play the run and eat up blockers in the pass game to allow the outside rushers time to play off of it. Sack numbers are a terrible way to gauge a 3-4 DE play. Rarely do you have players at that position who can dominate in both facets. Especially those who primarily play on the right like Bullard does. 
 

@beardown3231       ^^^ he's right, you know.

Edited by G08

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1 hour ago, G08 said:

@beardown3231       ^^^ he's right, you know.

For a 3rd round pick I’d say he’s given a decent return for the first 2 seasons. Not great for sure, but he’s been an adequate rotational piece who definitely was better in year 2. 

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When you talk about roster turnover, you need to mention who was on the roster before your current GM got here.

By my count, there are 4 drafted players who were here before Pace got here:

Long, Leno, Fuller, and O'Donnell

and 1 player signed as a free agent:

McManis

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14 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

For a 3rd round pick I’d say he’s given a decent return for the first 2 seasons. Not great for sure, but he’s been an adequate rotational piece who definitely was better in year 2. 

I thought he started coming on toward the end of last season, honestly. He's looking thicker/wider too so I think his body is in the proper shape to play 5T rather than 3T. If he's got some more power and still has his juice, he could be in for a surprising season.

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1 hour ago, G08 said:

I thought he started coming on toward the end of last season, honestly. He's looking thicker/wider too so I think his body is in the proper shape to play 5T rather than 3T. If he's got some more power and still has his juice, he could be in for a surprising season.

Exactly. He was a 3T that was a one-gap penetrating beast, who is now two-gapping against NFL tackles. He was not physically set for that kind of role, hopefully he can do it now.

 

This wasn't a college MIKE being moved to the SAM backer or college DE who is now rushing from a two-point stance as an OLB. The similarities of his college and pro roles end at having his hand in the dirt.

 

I did think he would get more rushing opportunities in nickel, so hopefully getting better than 438 defensive snaps allows him more chances to really rush the passer.

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On 5/8/2018 at 5:32 PM, beardown3231 said:

He's a DE in a 3-4. If sacks aren't good enough, show me a metric where he's been explosive and has shown upside.

Looking at metrics for a 3-4 DE and judging their play from that is a horrible way to scout. His job is not going to lead to individual stats.  Richard Seymour, Justin Smith, and JJ Watt are the only real exceptions to that ive seen in my lifetime.  Those guys were each thought to possibly be the best players in the entire league at one time.

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On 5/8/2018 at 5:49 PM, JustAnotherFan said:

You don't need metrics. A DE's primary responsibilities in a 3-4 defense are to play the run and eat up blockers in the pass game to allow the outside rushers time to play off of it. Sack numbers are a terrible way to gauge a 3-4 DE play. Rarely do you have players at that position who can dominate in both facets. Especially those who primarily play on the right like Bullard does. 
 

While that’s mostly true, that statement is also based on the idea that all base 3-4 are created equal, which is extremely false.

Most people are super hung up on that idea that 3-4 is a carbon copy of what we’ve seen from the Steelers a few years back, with a 340-350 pound nose and two 325 pound ends. Mention 3-4, and that what everybody enivisions. “The Bears MUST draft Danny Shelton at 350 pounds because 3-4.”

Thats vastly different from what somebody like Wade Phillips runs. JJ Watt played 5-tech or a shade off and his job was very much to rush the passer. Same with Joey Bosa.

I’d argue that in Fangio’s scheme, sure, the job of Hicks and Goldman is to occupy gaps vs. the run, but those guys are in place because they also can get upfield on passing downs. Bullard’s special trait coming out of Florida was speed off the snap. Nichols had some pass rush production at Delaware.

Whereas there used to be something called “pass rush specialists,” nowadays players who can’t rush the passer are largely run game specialists. If a guy can’t get some pass rush production, there’s really no reason to have him on the field outside of obvious running situations.

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Not sure where to put this, but according to Patrick Finley, Jerrell Freeman was facing a 2 year suspension for his third PED bust before he retired.

Honestly, at what point do you stop putting that **** in your system and realize that your good playing days are behind you and you have a lot of post-football years left to be as healthy as possible?

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