2019 NFL draft where the jags pick at 32;) (Update: pick at 7)

[LinderFournette]

18 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I could see this.

I wouldn't say getting the stamp of approval from a heralded coach as far as QB's go/Bill Polian/Tom Coughlin is anything to scoff at though.

It's clearly Haskins for me, and after him things get risky, but this is the time to do it. If we pass and wait, we're looking at a list of guys with much less upside to be the guy and ultimately probably a backup if we go QB in round 2 or 3. Unless we sign Foles, none of the other FA options are likely to help us to turn the corner enough to go anywhere next year either.

Jones and Lock worry me in some areas, but as I said, same can be said for a guy like Mahomes who had a Rd 2/3 grade prior to the Chiefs trading up for him. Jones and Lock both at least have a lot of the qualities with proper development that could turn into the guy imo.

 

I think teddy could keep us in it atleast as a game manager

[.Buzz]

12 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

I think teddy could keep us in it atleast as a game manager

Possibly. Think people are giving Teddy too much credit though. He's been out for 2 years from a serious knee injury that was career threatening and has done nothing to show he would be a solid starter since prior to his injury, and even then Vikings fans were hoping for more development.

Didn't have a great game Sunday either.

I'd be for bringing him in and hoping, but he wouldn't instill much more confidence in me than a Fitzpatrick type, with less upside but a higher floor.

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, .Buzz said:

I could see this.

I wouldn't say getting the stamp of approval from a heralded coach as far as QB's go/Bill Polian/Tom Coughlin is anything to scoff at though.

It's clearly Haskins for me, and after him things get risky, but this is the time to do it. If we pass and wait, we're looking at a list of guys with much less upside to be the guy and ultimately probably a backup if we go QB in round 2 or 3. Unless we sign Foles, none of the other FA options are likely to help us to turn the corner enough to go anywhere next year either.

Jones and Lock worry me in some areas, but as I said, same can be said for a guy like Mahomes who had a Rd 2/3 grade prior to the Chiefs trading up for him. Jones and Lock both at least have a lot of the qualities with proper development that could turn into the guy imo.

 

It's not nothing.  But other than some luck with Manning brothers, how much credibility does it really hold?  I think it's probably more useful as a "hint" at what our front office group might be thinking, than as an actual predictor of potential success tbh.

In any case, i get the idea of taking a gamble on one of these guys in the draft.  They might have more "upside" than the FA options available to us.  Certainly they stand a better chance of being a longer-term answer.  But i still just look at pretty much all of these options across the board (vet and rookie alike), and see guys who are probably going to need a plethora of good weapons and support around them to really help us turn any sort of corner.  The higher the pick you have to invest in the QB, the lesser quality assets you're going to have to try to find them a top flight weapon.  Which is where, i think with any of these guys, even the "upside" that Lock/Jones might have...they're going to need bigtime weapons to succeed (even Mahomes has been a huge beneficiary of an absolutely stacked weapon-rich roster).

I think that's gotta be weighing on Coughlin and Co.  And honestly, i kinda hope it is.  I want to see them find a way to make something happen with this offense...before they have to starting rebuilding big swaths of the defense again too.  Which is where, especially with any sort of rookie QB...you're more than likely going to have to kinda overload them with weapons and an OLine that can make their adjustment easier.  If you want to actually win with them, rather than just letting them ride out the ups and downs and call it a "rebuilding year" or two.  No matter how "ready" or not a guy like Jones might be...relative to other more raw QB prospects.

 

4 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

I think teddy could keep us in it atleast as a game manager

 

4 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Possibly. Think people are giving Teddy too much credit though. He's been out for 2 years from a serious knee injury that was career threatening and has done nothing to show he would be a solid starter since prior to his injury, and even then Vikings fans were hoping for more development.

Didn't have a great game Sunday either.

I'd be for bringing him in and hoping, but he wouldn't instill much more confidence in me than a Fitzpatrick type, with less upside but a higher floor.

I tend to agree on Teddy.  I think he's kinda had a big rebound in expectations, without actually doing a whole lot to demonstrate he's for sure going to be even the QB he was...much less any more than that.

There are options like that out there.  And it remains to be seen what other FA options are out there.  But you can win with guys like Teddy and Tyrod...you're just going to have to surround them with weapons, and gameplan to their limitations and strengths as a manager.  Same sort of thing you're going to do with a rookie QB anyway.

If we're talking about looking to a guy like Jones/Lock in the sort of range where a guy like Teddy originally went in the first place...that makes sense to me.  But in this year's class...it seems like that's looking less and less likely.  Which is where at some point if the price gets driven up so much, i'd just be inclined to cut bait and go with one of the less "shiny and new" vet FA options whose warts and limitations are well known...but have the better draft capital to actually go out and try to surround them with the weapons ANY of the QBs are going to really need anyway.

[.Buzz]

5 hours ago, Tugboat said:

It's not nothing.  But other than some luck with Manning brothers, how much credibility does it really hold?  I think it's probably more useful as a "hint" at what our front office group might be thinking, than as an actual predictor of potential success tbh.

In any case, i get the idea of taking a gamble on one of these guys in the draft.  They might have more "upside" than the FA options available to us.  Certainly they stand a better chance of being a longer-term answer.  But i still just look at pretty much all of these options across the board (vet and rookie alike), and see guys who are probably going to need a plethora of good weapons and support around them to really help us turn any sort of corner.  The higher the pick you have to invest in the QB, the lesser quality assets you're going to have to try to find them a top flight weapon.  Which is where, i think with any of these guys, even the "upside" that Lock/Jones might have...they're going to need bigtime weapons to succeed (even Mahomes has been a huge beneficiary of an absolutely stacked weapon-rich roster).

I think that's gotta be weighing on Coughlin and Co.  And honestly, i kinda hope it is.  I want to see them find a way to make something happen with this offense...before they have to starting rebuilding big swaths of the defense again too.  Which is where, especially with any sort of rookie QB...you're more than likely going to have to kinda overload them with weapons and an OLine that can make their adjustment easier.  If you want to actually win with them, rather than just letting them ride out the ups and downs and call it a "rebuilding year" or two.  No matter how "ready" or not a guy like Jones might be...relative to other more raw QB prospects.

 

 

I tend to agree on Teddy.  I think he's kinda had a big rebound in expectations, without actually doing a whole lot to demonstrate he's for sure going to be even the QB he was...much less any more than that.

There are options like that out there.  And it remains to be seen what other FA options are out there.  But you can win with guys like Teddy and Tyrod...you're just going to have to surround them with weapons, and gameplan to their limitations and strengths as a manager.  Same sort of thing you're going to do with a rookie QB anyway.

If we're talking about looking to a guy like Jones/Lock in the sort of range where a guy like Teddy originally went in the first place...that makes sense to me.  But in this year's class...it seems like that's looking less and less likely.  Which is where at some point if the price gets driven up so much, i'd just be inclined to cut bait and go with one of the less "shiny and new" vet FA options whose warts and limitations are well known...but have the better draft capital to actually go out and try to surround them with the weapons ANY of the QBs are going to really need anyway.

I really hope we target a guy like Golden Tate in FA. Dede is going to be a nice weapon for anyone that gets brought in. I'm super high on him and very impressed with what he's done in his situation.

Besides Dede though, the cupboard is pretty bare for sure. Gotta hope ASJ can be a solid weapons and Chark comes on, but all the rest are wildcards and I don't think we're likely to have any current RBs on the roster.

[.Buzz]

 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

I really hope we target a guy like Golden Tate in FA. Dede is going to be a nice weapon for anyone that gets brought in. I'm super high on him and very impressed with what he's done in his situation.

Besides Dede though, the cupboard is pretty bare for sure. Gotta hope ASJ can be a solid weapons and Chark comes on, but all the rest are wildcards and I don't think we're likely to have any current RBs on the roster.

Tate is alright, but he's getting up there in age, probably gonna come at a steeper price in a really thin looking receiver FA crop.  Kinda feel like he'd be another guy who might get a little mixed up in the shuffle with guys like Lee (presumably back?), DeDe, and Cole...in what he brings to the table and the role he really belongs in.

I think the biggest thing in terms of getting weapons and supporting pieces for a QB, when it comes to WR in particular...is that we have what could be a decent collection of sorta #2/3ish guys who are all in a fairly similar mold.  It's a real "premium" piece we're missing.  More of that big, sure-handed possession receiver who can soak up volume catches and be a bit of a "security blanket" chain-mover...be it for a rookie QB or a vet game manager dink and dunking away.  Or of course, ideally...just that stud do-it-all archteypical #1WR would work.  But either way, we're probably talking about the sort of receiver who tends to come at a premium.  Probably talking 1st round pick, maybe a high 2nd in a deep class.

 

Fortunately, both this WR and TE draft class look pretty good to me.  Hopefully we have a shot at getting a guy at both positions, fairly high in the draft.  Gets a little tight if we want to start adding an OLineman early-ish to potentially start too.  On top of a QB in the draft.  Especially if it's the 7 pick (or more) going into the position.  So many things we really need to upgrade on that offense...especially if we end up looking for a starting RB now too.  Only so many picks to go around.  Hrmmm...

FA class just doesn't have a lot that entices me in terms of receivers though.  If we even have the cash anyway.  Maybe take a flyer on reclamation project like Eifert or Kevin White and hope they aren't constantly injured somehow?  Just seems like some teams are really hoarding weapons.  Unfair.  Not a lot out there, pending some cap casualties maybe.  But when it's more of the "headliner" we're lacking...not sure how often that piece comes up on the market, unless there are some extenuating factors like ARob for instance.

[Tugboat]

40 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

 

I kinda think he will go @ Pick #7.    I wonder if he's going to go higher than that?  

[.Buzz]

10 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Tate is alright, but he's getting up there in age, probably gonna come at a steeper price in a really thin looking receiver FA crop.  Kinda feel like he'd be another guy who might get a little mixed up in the shuffle with guys like Lee (presumably back?), DeDe, and Cole...in what he brings to the table and the role he really belongs in.

I think the biggest thing in terms of getting weapons and supporting pieces for a QB, when it comes to WR in particular...is that we have what could be a decent collection of sorta #2/3ish guys who are all in a fairly similar mold.  It's a real "premium" piece we're missing.  More of that big, sure-handed possession receiver who can soak up volume catches and be a bit of a "security blanket" chain-mover...be it for a rookie QB or a vet game manager dink and dunking away.  Or of course, ideally...just that stud do-it-all archteypical #1WR would work.  But either way, we're probably talking about the sort of receiver who tends to come at a premium.  Probably talking 1st round pick, maybe a high 2nd in a deep class.

 

Fortunately, both this WR and TE draft class look pretty good to me.  Hopefully we have a shot at getting a guy at both positions, fairly high in the draft.  Gets a little tight if we want to start adding an OLineman early-ish to potentially start too.  On top of a QB in the draft.  Especially if it's the 7 pick (or more) going into the position.  So many things we really need to upgrade on that offense...especially if we end up looking for a starting RB now too.  Only so many picks to go around.  Hrmmm...

FA class just doesn't have a lot that entices me in terms of receivers though.  If we even have the cash anyway.  Maybe take a flyer on reclamation project like Eifert or Kevin White and hope they aren't constantly injured somehow?  Just seems like some teams are really hoarding weapons.  Unfair.  Not a lot out there, pending some cap casualties maybe.  But when it's more of the "headliner" we're lacking...not sure how often that piece comes up on the market, unless there are some extenuating factors like ARob for instance.

Tyrell Williams is another name that would be intriguing. Idk, have a hard time believing we won't have at least one vet WR, but then again Dede's been around a couple years now and Lee will be back.

10 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I kinda think he will go @ Pick #7.    I wonder if he's going to go higher than that?  

I doubt it unless a trade up occurs. Can't imagine he'd go higher than 4 or 5 at the absolute most, but that could change between now and then. Doubt TB goes with a QB that high, NYG I would say would be around 70-80 percent likely.

Just hard to know how teams think of this QB class yet.

[.Buzz]

 

[DuvalsKing]

14 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I kinda think he will go @ Pick #7.    I wonder if he's going to go higher than that?  

You love misery don’t you?

[.Buzz]

15 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

You love misery don’t you?

I sure would love the idea of taking a shot on a potential franchise QB (Jones) myself, idk.

[DuvalsKing]

25 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I sure would love the idea of taking a shot on a potential franchise QB (Jones) myself, idk.

I wouldn’t waste top 10 pick on potential if it’s a top 10 pick it needs to be a lock. We’ve drafted a lot of potential very little locks that’s why The Jags are in the position they are now.

You drafted Blake on potential when he should have been a 3rd to 5 round shot in the dark. How Khalil Mack never dawned a Jags it still upsets me. Fowler, Fournette... enough is enough.

[.Buzz]

1 minute ago, DuvalsKing said:

I wouldn’t waste top 10 pick on potential if it’s a top 10 pick it needs to be a lock. We’ve drafted a lot of potential very little locks that’s why The Jags are in the position they are now.

You drafted Blake on potential when he should have been a 3rd to 5 round shot in the dark. How Khalil Mack never dawned a Jags it still upsets me. Fowler, Fournette... enough is enough.

There is no locks. We all thought Joeckel was the safe sure fire franchise LT and he bombed more than anyone.

You have to take a shot on a QB. There isn't ever going to be a guy that is a sure thing at that position. Even last year all those top guys had questions and concerns and it was one of the best QB classes in a long while.

This one isn't as heralded and I feel like gets a little extra hate because there isn't as many of them, but guys like Haskins, Jones, and Lock definitely have some of the qualities that could make them the guy. Watson had a lot of questions and his throwing strength was a massive question as it was well below league average or what you'd want if I remember. Mahomes was a huge arm but also needed lots of work and was seen as a round 2/3 guy. 

Not even Metcalf, who has neck injury concerns, would be a sure thing. Maybe a defensive player like Oliver, Allen etc. gives you a more likely impact player which would be ok, but we're never getting a QB with that mindset.

Hell, Fournette was a pure "safe, impact immediately" guy as well. We saw how that worked out.

Fowler and Bortles are the only high end firsts that were based on potential. 

[Tugboat]

4 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Tyrell Williams is another name that would be intriguing. Idk, have a hard time believing we won't have at least one vet WR, but then again Dede's been around a couple years now and Lee will be back.

I doubt it unless a trade up occurs. Can't imagine he'd go higher than 4 or 5 at the absolute most, but that could change between now and then. Doubt TB goes with a QB that high, NYG I would say would be around 70-80 percent likely.

Just hard to know how teams think of this QB class yet.

I mean, we'll already have like you said...Dede and Lee presumably back, with a lot of NFL snaps under their belts.  Plus Keelan isn't exactly a rookie anymore either.  So you've already got a trio of those similar-ish "veteran" #2-3 guys locked in, even if they're on the younger side.  Plus, they obviously really liked Chark, so he'll be around again.  That's 4 WRs already.  How many more guys can you really add to that part of the depth chart?

It's pretty much the same problem as going into this past season...where you can only play so many mediocre receivers at a time.  It's the #1 slot on the depth chart that needs upgraded.  Piling more mediocre #3ish bodies onto the pile isn't going to do a lot.  Especially if those #2/3ish types comes via FA at a big pricetag when we already have cheaper (or already committed to in Lee) options in-house.

I think basically a big body "Moncrief replacement" via the draft (so they're cheap), with some upside to potentially be that #1 makes sense.  I wouldn't be surprised at any number of other things though.

Just think there's a differentiation to be made between actually needing "better weapons", more specifically than just "more weapons" i guess.  Which probably makes getting the right guy trickier, and costlier.

 

[Tugboat]

1 hour ago, DuvalsKing said:

You love misery don’t you?

I mean, i'd prefer gleefulness.  But when it comes to being a Jaguars fan...kinda get what you get.  Usually, it's misery.