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2019 NFL draft where the jags pick at 32;) (Update: pick at 7)


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3 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Tbh, i'd be shocked in they weren't really interested in Risner.  He checks all sorts of boxes they seem to look for in a lineman.  Position of need, big and mean with all the right attitude, top conference competition.

Biggest question is probably whether he'll even still be there by the time our 2nd round pick rolls around.  Especially if he lights up the Senior Bowl week like he seems capable of.

ive seen grades vary massively on him probably grades from being a RT to more of an interior guy.  interior wise someone called him the 2nd best center in the draft tho i could see us go with him as a center and move linder back to rg or have risner play rg. 

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i would love to see the jags give Oli Odoh an interview. i think he would check Marrones box's of OL because he is big( 6foot 5 330ish) long(36 inch arms). 

also kinda wanna see if the jags look at TE Parham from Stetson(the school is like 2 hours Max from jacksonville).  im not sure if hes gonna be a "jumbo" slot or a true TE but i feel like he could be a good late pick guy to play a redzone Offense role as hes 6 foot 8 245ish and has big hands and long arms. 

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5 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

ive seen grades vary massively on him probably grades from being a RT to more of an interior guy.  interior wise someone called him the 2nd best center in the draft tho i could see us go with him as a center and move linder back to rg or have risner play rg. 

Idk how much the grades will vary if teams are looking at him as a potential RT, with big RG upside.  It's like...a small ball version of Zach Martin in that respect.

Projecting Risner at Center though, i'm not so sold on.  I don't doubt that he could do it, but he seems like he'd be a lot more effective with a bit more space for his good sized frame, and a situation where he's not down snapping the ball all the time.  Honestly, i don't know why you'd project him as anything but a RT until he proves he can't play there in the NFL.

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5 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

i would love to see the jags give Oli Odoh an interview. i think he would check Marrones box's of OL because he is big( 6foot 5 330ish) long(36 inch arms). 

also kinda wanna see if the jags look at TE Parham from Stetson(the school is like 2 hours Max from jacksonville).  im not sure if hes gonna be a "jumbo" slot or a true TE but i feel like he could be a good late pick guy to play a redzone Offense role as hes 6 foot 8 245ish and has big hands and long arms. 

I obviously haven't delved into his tape, but i don't really get the appeal of Udoh, other than being a really tall ball of clay basically.  Late pick, sure...whatever...something to work with.  But he's seemed pretty over his head from Day1 of the Senior Bowl stuff.

Feel like both that one, and the Stetson TE are pretty much tape measure scouting tbh.  6'8" isn't even a good height for a TE.  Guys that tall almost always suck.  It's too tall.

 

Same **** with Tyree Jackson and all the people ooohing and aaaahing as he measures in at 6'7" and it's like...dude, that's too much.  That's legitimately not good.  QBs that tall are inherently slow in their process because they're just too long to quicken their footwork and release to an NFL level.  He's Paxton Lynch all over again.  

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6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

I obviously haven't delved into his tape, but i don't really get the appeal of Udoh, other than being a really tall ball of clay basically.  Late pick, sure...whatever...something to work with.  But he's seemed pretty over his head from Day1 of the Senior Bowl stuff.

Feel like both that one, and the Stetson TE are pretty much tape measure scouting tbh.  6'8" isn't even a good height for a TE.  Guys that tall almost always suck.  It's too tall.

 

Same **** with Tyree Jackson and all the people ooohing and aaaahing as he measures in at 6'7" and it's like...dude, that's too much.  That's legitimately not good.  QBs that tall are inherently slow in their process because they're just too long to quicken their footwork and release to an NFL level.  He's Paxton Lynch all over again.  

heres the comp i heard for Udoh. he is this years Brandon Parker. id take a chance on him round 4.  hes got potential. is he a finished product no but there is some upside there if he gets good coaching. 

as for the stetson guy i watched his film and he looked really good. im interested to see how he does in the game tho. 

jacksons got the physical tools to be a good QB. as a developmental guy to a throw a dart on in round 4 or so is fine. we have done worse with picking guys like that like Jonathan Quinn. 

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

 

I think this quote highlights the really scary part with Lock, when considering the "cons" part of the writeup:

Quote

with almost four years (46 games) of starting experience.

 

This isn't some totally raw ball of clay...it's an experienced guy who has shown those same flaws for basically 4 years now.  Still the same substantial problems with his footwork and panic under pressure.  If he hasn't fixed the way his footwork crumbles to pieces under pressure in essentially his 4th year as an SEC starter...what are the chances he's going to "fix" it in a year or two in the NFL?  Big gamble.

Easy to get caught up in all the natural arm talent and the good aspects he brings, but hard to shake this notion that you're talking about a nearly 50 game "project".  Even if it is largely a "system" thing at Mizzou, not coaching up the footwork fundamentals...that's a lot of games of reinforcing really bad habits that will not fly in the NFL.

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27 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I think this quote highlights the really scary part with Lock, when considering the "cons" part of the writeup:

 

This isn't some totally raw ball of clay...it's an experienced guy who has shown those same flaws for basically 4 years now.  Still the same substantial problems with his footwork and panic under pressure.  If he hasn't fixed the way his footwork crumbles to pieces under pressure in essentially his 4th year as an SEC starter...what are the chances he's going to "fix" it in a year or two in the NFL?  Big gamble.

Easy to get caught up in all the natural arm talent and the good aspects he brings, but hard to shake this notion that you're talking about a nearly 50 game "project".  Even if it is largely a "system" thing at Mizzou, not coaching up the footwork fundamentals...that's a lot of games of reinforcing really bad habits that will not fly in the NFL.

if i recall i think they changed schemes this year to more of a traditional system but im not 100% on that. 

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39 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

if i recall i think they changed schemes this year to more of a traditional system but im not 100% on that. 

In terms of the relevant stuff like playing under center and conventional pocket mechanics...there wasn't anything "traditional" this year.  Which is kinda where i guess there's still "hope" that if you get Lock into a "Pro Style" system where you install those proper mechanics and there's an emphasis on footwork being correct, you may clean up some of the other problems.  If he takes to it well.

But it seems like best-case, you're probably still looking at a Derek Carr type, who you have to protect extremely well to have him play well and not revert to the haphazard free form jazz style footwork he's done for 4 years at Mizzou.

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18 hours ago, Tugboat said:

In terms of the relevant stuff like playing under center and conventional pocket mechanics...there wasn't anything "traditional" this year.  Which is kinda where i guess there's still "hope" that if you get Lock into a "Pro Style" system where you install those proper mechanics and there's an emphasis on footwork being correct, you may clean up some of the other problems.  If he takes to it well.

But it seems like best-case, you're probably still looking at a Derek Carr type, who you have to protect extremely well to have him play well and not revert to the haphazard free form jazz style footwork he's done for 4 years at Mizzou.

still pick him over jones right now. jones has looked like booty thus far in practices. 

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1 hour ago, LinderFournette said:

still pick him over jones right now. jones has looked like booty thus far in practices. 

Haven't got to today's Senior Bowl practices yet, and obviously didn't see anything yesterday with the coverage scrapped...but on the first day of practices, yeah, Jones didn't look great at times.  Felt like there were a few throws that really highlighted his mediocre arm.  Have to remember that this is the time of year designed to flatter the skillset of a guy like Lock though, throwing in shorts/non-contract jersey vs air and stuff.  His arm is unquestionably better than Jones, but that was pretty obvious in the first place.

I think both of them and Thorson are all really 2nd round type prospects for me.  Potential and things to like that could make them NFL starters, but some real concerns too.  If you get them there, that's cool and you can overlook some of the limitations/flaws and see what happens as you get them into an NFL system.  Seems like they're going to get pushed up boards too rich for my blood though.

Really too bad Thorson had to pull out of the Senior Bowl due to injury.  Would've liked to see him there side-by-side with the other two.  Oh well.

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"The Jaguars have a significant interest in Dwayne Haskins based on the conversations I’ve had recently with several sources. Not only are they in prime position to move up to secure his rights, but they’d be saving money by starting a rookie quarterback as opposed to a veteran. Moving up for Haskins also wouldn’t preclude them from signing a veteran stopgap, though they’d be dealing with the same issue Miami has with paying significantly for a quarterback no longer on the roster in the form of dead cap."

https://fansided.com/2019/01/25/nfl-rumors-nick-foles-jaguars-bengals-redskins-dolphins/amp/?utm_campaign=FanSided&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=Ranking Nick Foles’ best potential landing spots in 2019&__twitter_impression=true

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1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

"The Jaguars have a significant interest in Dwayne Haskins based on the conversations I’ve had recently with several sources. Not only are they in prime position to move up to secure his rights, but they’d be saving money by starting a rookie quarterback as opposed to a veteran. Moving up for Haskins also wouldn’t preclude them from signing a veteran stopgap, though they’d be dealing with the same issue Miami has with paying significantly for a quarterback no longer on the roster in the form of dead cap."

https://fansided.com/2019/01/25/nfl-rumors-nick-foles-jaguars-bengals-redskins-dolphins/amp/?utm_campaign=FanSided&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_content=Ranking Nick Foles’ best potential landing spots in 2019&__twitter_impression=true

They'd be "saving money" by starting a rookie QB, sure...but how many of them look like legitimate locks to start immediately?  You're going to make up most of that difference or more paying $10M+ to a legitimate "stopgap" chump to bring in as insurance in case your rookie QB isn't ready to start games immediately.  Especially when you're talking about a guy who only has 1 year of starting experience in a wonky system under his belt in College.  That, or you go in raw with no viable backup plan.  Again.  9_9

In the end, i'm not sure how much cheaper it is.  What giving up draft assets to move up and draft Haskins would do...is cost you some absolutely critical other premium draft picks that you need to bring in other cheap starting talent.  Which probably makes things almost as tight either way, if you want to field a good roster overall.  It'd cost you the assets you'll spend a ****ton more $$$ to find outside the draft in terms of "weapons" and supporting pieces.  You probably come out ultimately worse off cap-wise...even if you come out better off QB-wise for a couple years down the road.

 

I mean, yeah...it'd be dumb to spend FA money on a QB in addition to Bortles dead money...but that dead money is a brutal eyesore on our cap no matter what.  It doesn't matter if the money gets spent on another QB in FA or the Draft...it's ugly.  But it's sunk cost on an idiotic extension.  Just bury it and move on.

 

Quote

They could opt to sign a lesser free-agent like Ryan Tannehill

 

This part too, i kinda disagree with.  I honestly just don't fully buy into the idea that someone like Tannehill or Flacco is a "lesser free-agent" than Foles.  You've got what looks like 3 veteran "starting caliber QBs"...and what...5 teams seriously looking for a starting QB right now?  One of them already being tied up in a FA misadventure of their own in Keenum, and a second being in an even worse cap situation than us in the Redskins?  Play hardball in that market and see what shakes out.

 

Just feels like such a Jaguars move to shoot their gun trading a bunch of assets to move up a couple spots in a "bad QB draft" to get "their guy".  It's one thing if you get The Guy who is genuinely franchise-changing...but that's a heck of a gamble on a 1-year starter, in an era where parity is more the rule than anything else even when a team does have "their guy" at QB.  Just look at the teams with "franchise QBs" out of the playoffs even.

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7 hours ago, Tugboat said:

They'd be "saving money" by starting a rookie QB, sure...but how many of them look like legitimate locks to start immediately?  You're going to make up most of that difference or more paying $10M+ to a legitimate "stopgap" chump to bring in as insurance in case your rookie QB isn't ready to start games immediately.  Especially when you're talking about a guy who only has 1 year of starting experience in a wonky system under his belt in College.  That, or you go in raw with no viable backup plan.  Again.  9_9

In the end, i'm not sure how much cheaper it is.  What giving up draft assets to move up and draft Haskins would do...is cost you some absolutely critical other premium draft picks that you need to bring in other cheap starting talent.  Which probably makes things almost as tight either way, if you want to field a good roster overall.  It'd cost you the assets you'll spend a ****ton more $$$ to find outside the draft in terms of "weapons" and supporting pieces.  You probably come out ultimately worse off cap-wise...even if you come out better off QB-wise for a couple years down the road.

 

I mean, yeah...it'd be dumb to spend FA money on a QB in addition to Bortles dead money...but that dead money is a brutal eyesore on our cap no matter what.  It doesn't matter if the money gets spent on another QB in FA or the Draft...it's ugly.  But it's sunk cost on an idiotic extension.  Just bury it and move on.

 

 

This part too, i kinda disagree with.  I honestly just don't fully buy into the idea that someone like Tannehill or Flacco is a "lesser free-agent" than Foles.  You've got what looks like 3 veteran "starting caliber QBs"...and what...5 teams seriously looking for a starting QB right now?  One of them already being tied up in a FA misadventure of their own in Keenum, and a second being in an even worse cap situation than us in the Redskins?  Play hardball in that market and see what shakes out.

 

Just feels like such a Jaguars move to shoot their gun trading a bunch of assets to move up a couple spots in a "bad QB draft" to get "their guy".  It's one thing if you get The Guy who is genuinely franchise-changing...but that's a heck of a gamble on a 1-year starter, in an era where parity is more the rule than anything else even when a team does have "their guy" at QB.  Just look at the teams with "franchise QBs" out of the playoffs even.

Haskins has been viewed by many as a legit blue Chip QB worth trading up for.

Just because this draft isn't last year's and it doesn't have an Andrew Luck doesn't mean it's bad or there isn't legit franchise QB caliber guys. If they like a guy, go up and get him. It'd be ridiculous not to if they do indeed really like a guy, but especially if the guy they really like is Haskins who has been mocked/viewed by many as a top 5 lock as of late...

We aren't going anywhere until we get a guy. Just because you seem to not like anyone doesn't mean no one is worth trading up/going out and getting. Same stuff was being said with Watson/Mahomes draft...doesn't look like either of those teams are looking back in frustration for trading up/getting "their guy" in a "weak QB draft". May not have been top 5 to trade up for, but Haskins is also viewed as a prospect in a higher light than both of them were coming out and deservedly so at this point. But even the Chiefs traded their late 1+next year's first and a 3rd to get their guy.

Edited by .Buzz
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