Watson and Kamara

[Heinz D.]

17 minutes ago, IronMike84 said:

Forgot to add: don’t forget about genius GM John Lynch, who reeeeaaallllyyyy wanted to use that #2 pick on Reuben Foster and then secured his Gold Jacket by trading up to take him at #31 instead. Of course Foster was still sitting there by sheer happenstance and not because every other NFL team figured he was boat racing Joe Mixon to see who would get charged with domestic battery first. MAN HE PLAYED PACE SO HARD!

And all because Trubisky wasn't on people's radar, even though anyone paying attention to that year's draft should have known teams had him ranked very, very highly. Gawd. Saw that Bayless doubled down on his "dumbest move in the history of sports" b.s. the other day. Because repeating it helps make it true. And the football gods will strike you dead if you're wrong...

[IronMike84]

4 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

And all because Trubisky wasn't on people's radar, even though anyone paying attention to that year's draft should have known teams had him ranked very, very highly. Gawd. Saw that Bayless doubled down on his "dumbest move in the history of sports" b.s. the other day. Because repeating it helps make it true. And the football gods will strike you dead if you're wrong...

Even though he was mocked to the Bears in just about every mock draft in January and February.

[Sugashane]

50 minutes ago, Heinz D. said:

And all because Trubisky wasn't on people's radar, even though anyone paying attention to that year's draft should have known teams had him ranked very, very highly. Gawd. Saw that Bayless doubled down on his "dumbest move in the history of sports" b.s. the other day. Because repeating it helps make it true. And the football gods will strike you dead if you're wrong...

Remember that half-a-tard said Manziel would make Cleveland forget about LeBron James.

He is an idiot, butr he doesn't have to be accurate, he is great at what he does because he says outlandish things that get people talking and referencing him. He is basically verbal clickbait.

[dll2000]

14 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

Even though he was mocked to the Bears in just about every mock draft in January and February.

Maybe before they signed Glennon when they had no one.  Once that happened almost  nobody thought Bears were going QB with no. 3 pick.  When they made trade every talking head in every studio had a shocked face.  

Early CW was that 2017 QB class was weak and none of the QBs were top 10 worthy.  Trubisky was too inexperienced.  Watson was too inaccurate and was product of great talent all around him.  Mahomes came from wrong system.  Kizer was most talented for pros every one said, but then everyone also said they wouldn't take him too early because of some vague reasons.

Bears were mocked Solomon Thomas, Jamal Adams, Marshon Lattimore or Malik Hooker.  I personally thought it was going to be one of those guys. 

I think Cleveland thought they could wait or perhaps make a deal for MT moving a few slots.  I believe Bears monkey wrenched their whole draft that year.   

 

 

 

 

 

 

[IronMike84]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

Maybe before they signed Glennon when they had no one.  Once that happened almost  nobody thought Bears were going QB with no. 3 pick.  When they made trade every talking head in every studio had a shocked face.  

The week of the draft, I really thought Pace was gunning for Watson. Regardless of which QB it ended up being, the fact that the media so badly misconstrued the structure of Glennon’s contract and the surprise that followed when the Bears drafted a QB means the media was either a) stupid or b) liars.

There’s just no third possibility. They either truly didn’t understand that Glennon received a glorified one-year deal, or they totally understood but figured they could get clicks by acting surprised.

[IronMike84]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I think Cleveland thought they could wait or perhaps make a deal for MT moving a few slots.  I believe Bears monkey wrenched their whole draft that year.   

Here’s the thing: the week of the draft, we heard rumors that Cleveland really liked Trubisky and that they also were interested in moving up from #12.

We also know San Fran liked Reuben Foster enough to consider him at #2 and that they were willing to get out of #2.

On top of that, we know that Pace was pretty much locked into taking Trubisky.

With all of that in mind, I don’t understand why so many people feel it’s so far-fetched that Cleveland would have moved up from #12 to #2 to take Trubisky if Pace didn’t move up. Pace has said this exact same thing himself, yet “Lynch fleeced Pace” is what everybody holds onto so hard.

[Heinz D.]

4 hours ago, dll2000 said:

I think Cleveland thought they could wait or perhaps make a deal for MT moving a few slots.  I believe Bears monkey wrenched their whole draft that year.   

21 minutes ago, IronMike84 said:

The week of the draft, I really thought Pace was gunning for Watson. Regardless of which QB it ended up being, the fact that the media so badly misconstrued the structure of Glennon’s contract and the surprise that followed when the Bears drafted a QB means the media was either a) stupid or b) liars.

There’s just no third possibility. They either truly didn’t understand that Glennon received a glorified one-year deal, or they totally understood but figured they could get clicks by acting surprised.

It's option A, beyond a doubt. To automatically assume Glennon was the future was ridiculous (although not everyone did that). 

[AZBearsFan]

3 hours ago, IronMike84 said:

The week of the draft, I really thought Pace was gunning for Watson. Regardless of which QB it ended up being, the fact that the media so badly misconstrued the structure of Glennon’s contract and the surprise that followed when the Bears drafted a QB means the media was either a) stupid or b) liars.

There’s just no third possibility. They either truly didn’t understand that Glennon received a glorified one-year deal, or they totally understood but figured they could get clicks by acting surprised.

We overpaid for Glennon even if it was always a 1-year deal, even if his AAV paid him as only like the 23rd highest paid starter. That’s fine. It is what it is. I get far more annoyed by the revisionist history about how they could have had Case Keenum for 1/8 of the price is just that. Nobody, including Minnesota, was counting on Keenum to be able to be anything other than a “Man I sure hope we don’t have to use him” level backup. Before 2017 Keenum was a career 9-15 starter with a 24:20 TD:INT ratio and a sub-60% completion ratio. Glennon had a comparable record and completion percentage but also a 2:1 TD:INT ratio. We overpaid for Glennon, but he was the more desirable of the two without question even if neither was overly desirable.  

[IronMike84]

4 hours ago, Heinz D. said:

It's option A, beyond a doubt. To automatically assume Glennon was the future was ridiculous (although not everyone did that). 

Even John Lynch was convinced that the trade had to be for Solomon Thomas during the negotiation process because of Glennon. It’s baffling how Glennon was looked at as a joke and clearly his contract structure was team-friendly but nobody could look past the max value.

[AZBearsFan]

15 minutes ago, IronMike84 said:

Even John Lynch was convinced that the trade had to be for Solomon Thomas during the negotiation process because of Glennon. It’s baffling how Glennon was looked at as a joke and clearly his contract structure was team-friendly but nobody could look past the max value.

It’s typical Bears national reporting though. Repeated pushing of the low hanging fruit narrative. ‘85 Bears. DAAAAA BEARS. Good Rex / Bad Rex. Cutler was a bad teammate. Glennon’s contract. It was really just par for the course. Until the team forces them to go beyond that easy, lowest common denominator type reporting they’re gonna just keep running the same crap out there over and over.

I’m in my mid-30s. The only ties I have to the ‘85 Bears beyond the history of my favorite team are some super fuzzy memories I have of the remnants of those teams playing out the ends of their careers, and Ditka getting fired. I was 3 when they won that title. I’m a Sox fan, but I can imagine that Cubs fans couldn’t wait to hear ANYTHING other than that Lovable Losers crap. That’s how I feel about the Bears. To me the less and less this current team can make me hear about the glory days of yesteryear and the Monsters of the Midway the better, because that’s going to be the point when they are actually relevant again. 

[IronMike84]

Something that Hoge/Jahns brought up in regards to this year’s draft: there’s such a massive obsession with draft capital nowadays. Fans see giving up picks as this giant unforgivable football sin and would rather see their team amass 10 picks simply to get more dart throws as opposed to than having 5 picks at higher spots and theoretically landing better-rated players. Quantity is valued exponentially more than quality.

In 2017, a large part of the uproar surrounding the Trubisky trade was over the draft capital Pace surrendered. But then we never heard a single word about how he recouped a 2017 4th rounder and gained a 2018 4th rounder by trading out of #36

In all, Pace gave up a 3rd round pick and swapped a future 3rd for a future 4th as insurance to get his guy.

[soulman]

IMHO if Trubisky was the only guy he wanted with his first pick all he did was insure it and insurance costs something no matter what it is you want to insure.  When the dust settled and Iron Mike points out Pace was able to recoup some of that cost via other transactions without being hurt.

From the get go Trubisky was the only QB I would have taken that high and also the QB I'd hoped Pace would draft.  Added to that is I'm damn glad he moved on that pick when we did and weren't involved in this years QB sweepstakes.  We got our guy in 2017 which allowed us to draft a defensive impact player and leader we also needed very badly this year and once again his second round picks appear to be very solid if not outright steals.

No need to look back.  We did very well in both drafts.

 

 

[AZBearsFan]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:18 PM, IronMike84 said:

Something that Hoge/Jahns brought up in regards to this year’s draft: there’s such a massive obsession with draft capital nowadays. Fans see giving up picks as this giant unforgivable football sin and would rather see their team amass 10 picks simply to get more dart throws as opposed to than having 5 picks at higher spots and theoretically landing better-rated players. Quantity is valued exponentially more than quality.

In 2017, a large part of the uproar surrounding the Trubisky trade was over the draft capital Pace surrendered. But then we never heard a single word about how he recouped a 2017 4th rounder and gained a 2018 4th rounder by trading out of #36

In all, Pace gave up a 3rd round pick and swapped a future 3rd for a future 4th as insurance to get his guy.

People are always looking to criticize wherever they can. Everything is about hot takes and who you can blame for anything less than perfect. If Mitch turns out to be a true franchise QB and people still have an axe to grind about it then those people are looking to push a narrative or not be wrong about a personal opinion of theirs about which nobody really cares anyway. There isn’t a GM in the history of the NFL that wouldn’t sacrifice 2 mid round picks to secure a franchise QB for a 10-15 year window. 

[Sugashane]

15 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

People are always looking to criticize wherever they can. Everything is about hot takes and who you can blame for anything less than perfect. If Mitch turns out to be a true franchise QB and people still have an axe to grind about it then those people are looking to push a narrative or not be wrong about a personal opinion of theirs about which nobody really cares anyway. There isn’t a GM in the history of the NFL that wouldn’t sacrifice 2 mid round picks to secure a franchise QB for a 10-15 year window. 

Exactly. For a franchise QB most would be more than willing to give up multiple firsts. Hell, Reid and O'Brien both invested two firsts to get their guys IIRC. I'd invest 2 midround picks to get a solid starter at an impact position outside of QB. lol

[dll2000]

On 5/31/2018 at 10:17 PM, AZBearsFan said:

 

I’m in my mid-30s. The only ties I have to the ‘85 Bears beyond the history of my favorite team are some super fuzzy memories I have of the remnants of those teams playing out the ends of their careers, and Ditka getting fired. I was 3 when they won that title. I’m a Sox fan, but I can imagine that Cubs fans couldn’t wait to hear ANYTHING other than that Lovable Losers crap. That’s how I feel about the Bears. To me the less and less this current team can make me hear about the glory days of yesteryear and the Monsters of the Midway the better, because that’s going to be the point when they are actually relevant again. 

I agree you shouldn't dwell in past.  But for those old enough to have lived it and remember it as a kid the '85 season was objectively the most fun in history of NFL all things considered.  Even Madden after decades of playing coaching and broadcasting always cites it as such and he isn't a Bears fan and won multiple SBs of his own.

After first 4 or 5 games every week it was a soap opera played out on a national stage with every game having the hype and flavor of a playoff or bowl game.  The whole nation was watching the Bears and every team was geared up to beat them.    

The thing was Bears were relatively simplistic in all respects.  Ditka for all the Saturday Night Live hype wasn't a great coach and never claimed to be an X's and O guy.  But he was a compelling personality who would battle with the media and always had a good quote.  Buddy Ryan was charismatic and insane and with the talent they had that year defensively they adopted his persona.  Plus, a lot of those guys were insane as well.   46 wasn't complicated confusing scheme ala **** LeBeau.  It simply sold out to both rush passer and stop the run, nobody ran a spread formation at time to take advantage of outside mismatches and you couldn't block many of the Bears one on one so you were screwed.  Bears were going to run the football, throw bombs to keep you honest and defense was going to kill you.  Simple.  

Then they drafted the biggest fattest guy in history of league (for the time), no big deal, but they gave him a funny nickname and let him run the ball.  People ate it up.  Most popular toy in world at time was GI Joe action figures.  There was a Refrigerator Perry GI Joe doll that was pretty cool.  It had a football mace.   https://goo.gl/images/tCCfkn

Walter Payton was regarded as best or one of 2 or 3 best RBs in game for many years leading up to that season and was a bit past his peak, but he was still a huge star.  This was when RBs were king.  A RB almost always went in top 3 or 4 of draft.  Another Bear great languishing on bad teams for years.  

Jim McMahon was a weird guy and viewed as a cool rebel at time.  He got into with commissioner https://goo.gl/images/T3imwd and Ditka and people loved him for it. 

They had this track star WR in Willie Gault who nobody could catch.  

Defense was full of compelling and outspoken psychopaths who weren't afraid to talk trash which was a big no no at the time.

Offensive line even had a nickname - black and blues brothers.  They had a cool poster that was seen everywhere.  https://goo.gl/images/uhYBoV

When they came out with the Super Bowl Shuffle (a stupid song in retrospect) EVERY grade school had kids dressing up with the jerseys and performing it.  I was Jim McMahon.  Remember that song came out long before they had won the right to go to the Super Bowl.  It was a galling move to many, but par for the course for this arrogant bunch.

People would destroy refrigerators, Chicago landmarks had Bears stuff on it, tail gating was insane at away and home games, it was crazy.  Much more like a college atmosphere played out nationally.

One of least famous members of defense, Wilber Marshall, was hardest hitter I have ever seen after 4 decades of watching football.  He hit Lions QB so hard I thought he was dead. 

 

 

 

I could go on and on and I know I am preaching to choir.  But that was no ordinary year of a team getting hot and winning a SB which is really just fun for that city.  Of course not everybody wanted Bears to win, most didn't, but EVERYBODY was into it.  Bears were must watch TV every week starting about 5th or 6th game.  It was like world stopped for those 3 hours.      

As a single season it was more memorable than any of Jordan years, Blackhawks or even Cubs winning after 108 years, because those guys on the Bears from coaches to players were just so much fun, interesting and compelling as a group at least for that one year.

Nothing compares.