Jayson, Ben & Don

[DoleINGout]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Except there's probably a half a dozen players who can effectively defend Simmons.  That isn't the case with Tatum.  Simmons is the offense for the Sixers.  If you don't think there's a drop off from Simmons running the offense and Simmons not running the offense, than you're incredibly wrong.  It's like saying the Rockets are as good offensively when Eric Gordon runs the offense as James Harden does.  Or if Shaun Livingston is running the Warriors offense instead of Steph Curry.  It's a laughable argument.

The drop off isn't offensive when Simmons come out. Not in the playoff and not against a decent defensive team like the Celtics. Simmons actually hurts his offense in this series. Until he develops his game, he is just plain hype.

By the way, no one can effectively defend Tatum. Even Embiid got beat under the basket last night lol. Embiid is the most dominant rim protector save for Anthony Davis and maybe a super motivated LeBron James right now. As for defending Simmons, look at that 1 point he scored against the Celtics a few nights ago. There are a half dozen players on the Celtics who have been put on Simmons alone in this series. The guy is trash offensively. Stevens lets him handle the ball inside arch and pass it off because he still doesn't know what to do against their zone and off-man.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

 

let me ask you this, if you take Durant off the Warriors and Simmons off the Cs, which teams offense suffers more?

Oh and Ben Simmons has the worst net rating on the team in BOS series and TJ has the best. And Tatum is BOS's leading scorer. So when it matters, probably Tatum.

Simmons.  Because again, he is Philadelphia's offense.  Which was the root of this whole discussion.  Who has a bigger impact on their teams' offense?  Simmons.

[MookieMonstah]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Now the assists don't count because of the offensive system that Philadelphia runs.  This is literally becoming comical.  Now Simmons is being "docked" because they surrounded him with shooters, which is the right thing to do.  Next you're going to tell me that him being left-handed disqualifies him.

No but you think dribbling at the top of the key and passing to one of the best 3 point shooters in the league is him being super god elite status at running an offense...? Assists are assists but you can put context to them.

You literally only want to use context to discredit Tatum, its embarrassing.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, CWood21 said:

Simmons.  Because again, he is Philadelphia's offense.  Which was the root of this whole discussion.  Who has a bigger impact on their teams' offense?  Simmons.

Because the 76ers don't have anything else lol. You're smarter than this, I know  you are.

[11sanchez11]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Now the assists don't count because of the offensive system that Philadelphia runs.  This is literally becoming comical.  Now Simmons is being "docked" because they surrounded him with shooters, which is the right thing to do.  Next you're going to tell me that him being left-handed disqualifies him.

Literally any player in the NBA can stand and make passes to players coming off screens. There is absolutely no way that Ben has made anywhere near the impact Tatum has in their series. Philly fans legitimately said after game 2 they would have won the game if Brown didn't put Ben in over  TJ. lmao

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, MookieMonster said:

You're ridiculous. Its stupid because the Celtics have Kyrie Irving, Al Horford, Jaylen Brown, Terry Rozier. The Sixers have Joel Embiid and...JJ Reddick? Of course it would hurt the Sixers more.

The Suns offense would be hurt more by losing Booker than the Celtics would by losing Kyrie. That doesn't mean Devin Booker is better than Kyrie. Its a stupid question.

I'm ridiculous, because you think I'm blasting your team.  I'm not.  Simmons is asked to run the offense for Philadelphia, Tatum is not.  That's not a knock on Tatum, that's just the reality that we're dealing with.  We're not arguing whose the better player, we're arguing who makes the bigger impact on their teams' offense.  Stop changing the topic.

[DoleINGout]

5 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Except there's probably a half a dozen players who can effectively defend Simmons.  That isn't the case with Tatum.  Simmons is the offense for the Sixers.  If you don't think there's a drop off from Simmons running the offense and Simmons not running the offense, than you're incredibly wrong.  It's like saying the Rockets are as good offensively when Eric Gordon runs the offense as James Harden does.  Or if Shaun Livingston is running the Warriors offense instead of Steph Curry.  It's a laughable argument.

And the argument isn't the same as with those players because 1.) obviously their different players in different circumstances and 2.) Simmons can't shoot - Livingston and Gordon can. So completely different situations.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, DoleINGout said:

The drop off isn't offensive when Simmons come out. Not in the playoff and not against a decent defensive team like the Celtics. Simmons actually hurts his offense in this series. Until he develops his game, he is just plain hype.

By the way, no one can effectively defend Tatum. Even Embiid got beat under the basket last night lol. Embiid is the most dominant rim protector save for Anthony Davis and maybe a super motivated LeBron James right now. As for defending Simmons, look at that 1 point he scored against the Celtics a few nights ago. There are a half dozen players on the Celtics who have been put on Simmons alone in this series. The guy is trash offensively. Stevens lets him handle the ball inside arch and pass it off because he still doesn't know what to do against their zone and off-man.

Whose running the offense when Simmons is on the bench?  TJ McConnell and JJ Redick.  I don't trust them to run my HS offense, let alone an NBA offense.

[MookieMonstah]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I'm ridiculous, because you think I'm blasting your team.  I'm not.  Simmons is asked to run the offense for Philadelphia, Tatum is not.  That's not a knock on Tatum, that's just the reality that we're dealing with.  We're not arguing whose the better player, we're arguing who makes the bigger impact on their teams' offense.  Stop changing the topic.

In this series, please argue that Simmons has made more of an impact.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, MookieMonster said:

No but you think dribbling at the top of the key and passing to one of the best 3 point shooters in the league is him being super god elite status at running an offense...? Assists are assists but you can put context to them.

You literally only want to use context to discredit Tatum, its embarrassing.

If you're gonna group all of his assists in some generic catch-all, this discussion isn't going anywhere.  I don't know how many times I have to say this, I'M NOT BLASTING TATUM.  At some point, that has to sink in.

[CWood21]

2 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Literally any player in the NBA can stand and make passes to players coming off screens. There is absolutely no way that Ben has made anywhere near the impact Tatum has in their series. Philly fans legitimately said after game 2 they would have won the game if Brown didn't put Ben in over  TJ. lmao

So you're telling me that you believe Tatum's combination of shooting/passing impact more than Simmons shooting/passing combination?  If you want to believe that, I won't argue with but I do find the comment from @DoleINGout earlier about it not even being close to be comical at best.

[11sanchez11]

1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

Simmons.  Because again, he is Philadelphia's offense.  Which was the root of this whole discussion.  Who has a bigger impact on their teams' offense?  Simmons.

So then according to you Simmons is a better offensive player than perhaps the best offensive player of this generation. Cool. And he is getting swept by a team without their two best players. Super believable.

Also, he isn't their offense. Their offense has more to do about the shooters coming off Embiid off ball screens then Simmons. Also Embiid post ups. There is a reason I said BOS would beat Philly, it is because I realized this unlike most people and knew BOS could guard the shooters cause they can switch everything (except for Embiid actions).

[DoleINGout]

Just now, CWood21 said:

I'm ridiculous, because you think I'm blasting your team.  I'm not.  Simmons is asked to run the offense for Philadelphia, Tatum is not.  That's not a knock on Tatum, that's just the reality that we're dealing with.  We're not arguing whose the better player, we're arguing who makes the bigger impact on their teams' offense.  Stop changing the topic.

Tatum isn't asked to run the offense. Simmons is. But Simmons is brutely less effective offensively than Tatum. Impact wise, Simmons feast on poor teams and poor transition D's. He takes advantage of mismatches because of his size and position. Otherwise, he does a whole lot of nothing special despite running the offense while he is in. McConnell could run the offense alone but it doesn't mean that because he is setting up a screen or calling out a play from the coach that McConnell is more impactful than Tatum. Jayson Tatum just dominates the boys mamas anyway they want it.

[CWood21]

1 minute ago, 11sanchez11 said:

So then according to you Simmons is a better offensive player than perhaps the best offensive player of this generation. Cool. And he is getting swept by a team without their two best players. Super believable.

Also, he isn't their offense. Their offense has more to do about the shooters coming off Embiid off ball screens then Simmons. Also Embiid post ups. There is a reason I said BOS would beat Philly, it is because I realized this unlike most people and knew BOS could guard the shooters cause they can switch everything (except for Embiid actions).

No that's not what I'm saying.  We're morphing like a dozen different discussions, and you keep pulling away from my original point which was that Simmons impacts the Sixers' offense more than Tatum does on the C's.  That's not a knock on Tatum, that's just the reality of the two teams.  You take LeBron James off of the Cavaliers, and their offense is worse than mediocre.  You take James Harden off the Rockets, the Rockets' offense is levels worse than they are with him.  Just because they've got a better coach and system in place doesn't mean Tatum has the higher impact.

[DoleINGout]

4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Whose running the offense when Simmons is on the bench?  TJ McConnell and JJ Redick.  I don't trust them to run my HS offense, let alone an NBA offense.

Really. Because they're the only ones who seem to make any impact on the Celtics this series. Simmons is booty right now. Get a shot, even take a shot, and then come back at me. I'll concede then that Simmons is doing something better on offense. He's like a consistently competitive Rajon Rondo with the advantage of being 6'10 before Rondo developed a shot to where he would actually shoot in games.