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Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread


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I think the time is right for Gute to go out and trade for some depth at OT and OLB.  

One injury at OT and the offense is severely handicapped.  Having Mercedes Lewis available to help out is a huge plus this year, but that really limits the offense when you have to hold a guy like that in to block.

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45 minutes ago, Cheech said:

I think the time is right for Gute to go out and trade for some depth at OT and OLB.  

One injury at OT and the offense is severely handicapped.  Having Mercedes Lewis available to help out is a huge plus this year, but that really limits the offense when you have to hold a guy like that in to block.

There aren't enough OTs to go around... last year some teams didn't have have two OTs as good as Murphy. The Packers don't have great OT depth, but there OT depth is better than most teams and you can't find good OT depth at this point of the season unless there is a contract dispute or someone is having a fire sell to say their season is over and they're rebuilding for next year. 

There are certain positions such as QB, OT, Edge and CB that are very hard to find during the season, so if you want them, you need to grab them in the offseason and/or over pay by a lot... well that, and the contract disputes again sometimes you can make a trade reason and work out.

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Bell is clearly a guard.  So is Murphy.  Spriggs is a T, but has seemingly gotten worse since his time at Indiana.

You can't enter the season with 3 true tackles on your roster when your third is spending his free summer time working as a part-time turnstile at his local DMV office.  

That's exactly how we ended up with an UDFA guard being our best option at RT when Bulaga went down last year.

Ted stubbornly stuck with who he had waaay too many times when there was a clear need (S, ILB, OLB, CB, backup QB, etc...) Unfortunately, that hamstrung multiple teams and undeniably marred his record as a GM.

Gute needs to do better on that front.  Yes, it is a tough position to fill - but I strongly believe that it can be filled by someone who actually plays the position and is currently on a different team.

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3 minutes ago, Patriotplayer90 said:

Murphy didn't exactly get beat by a regular rusher or pass rushing move.  That was some next-level Von Miller caliber bend by Harold Landry.  You have to applaud a good play by a talented player sometimes.

He was smoked by a rookie.  He battled at RT last year before getting hurt.  I absolutely give him props for that.  He's probably our best option at backup RT at the moment.  But you can't watch that guy's feet and be OK with him backing up the most important position on the OL.  

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6 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Bell is clearly a guard.  So is Murphy.  Spriggs is a T, but has seemingly gotten worse since his time at Indiana.

You can't enter the season with 3 true tackles on your roster when your third is spending his free summer time working as a part-time turnstile at his local DMV office.  

That's exactly how we ended up with an UDFA guard being our best option at RT when Bulaga went down last year.

Ted stubbornly stuck with who he had waaay too many times when there was a clear need (S, ILB, OLB, CB, backup QB, etc...) Unfortunately, that hamstrung multiple teams and undeniably marred his record as a GM.

Gute needs to do better on that front.  Yes, it is a tough position to fill - but I strongly believe that it can be filled by someone who actually plays the position and is currently on a different team.

Your statement is true that we were thin but the position was set up. TT nor anyone could forsee both Spriggs and Murphy getting hurt. We had back ups but at one point last year our top 4 T's were in the injury tent. NO team has 5-6-7 T's sitting on the bench. if you want to bash TT and Co go for it but at least have right information. Guard was good too until we got thin at T.

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1 minute ago, Cheech said:

He was smoked by a rookie.  He battled at RT last year before getting hurt.  I absolutely give him props for that.  He's probably our best option at backup RT at the moment.  But you can't watch that guy's feet and be OK with him backing up the most important position on the OL.  

I would believe the plan is for Spriggs to back up LT i think they reason they gave him a late start yesterday was to bring him back from his knee slowly let him build some confidence. I would be sure that in the event Bahk was hurt we'd give the next man up a go but he'd be on a short leash. He'd get help from theTE's or we'd move Bulaga over. I"m pretty sure Gute/MM would protect the franchise.

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1 minute ago, PACKRULE said:

Your statement is true that we were thin but the position was set up. TT nor anyone could forsee both Spriggs and Murphy getting hurt. We had back ups but at one point last year our top 4 T's were in the injury tent. NO team has 5-6-7 T's sitting on the bench. if you want to bash TT and Co go for it but at least have right information. Guard was good too until we got thin at T.

But now we know that the position is thin because Spriggs and Murphy have proven that they aren't capable of filling in.  If Spriggs weren't healthy, he wouldn't be playing.  He's been the same guy for the last 2.5 years and hasn't shown a bit of improvement.  

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14 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Bell is clearly a guard.  So is Murphy.  Spriggs is a T, but has seemingly gotten worse since his time at Indiana.

You can't enter the season with 3 true tackles on your roster when your third is spending his free summer time working as a part-time turnstile at his local DMV office.  

That's exactly how we ended up with an UDFA guard being our best option at RT when Bulaga went down last year.

Ted stubbornly stuck with who he had waaay too many times when there was a clear need (S, ILB, OLB, CB, backup QB, etc...) Unfortunately, that hamstrung multiple teams and undeniably marred his record as a GM.

Gute needs to do better on that front.  Yes, it is a tough position to fill - but I strongly believe that it can be filled by someone who actually plays the position and is currently on a different team.

Honestly, this post reeks of lack of a realism.  Would I like better backup tackles than Spriggs and Murphy?  Sure, but I'm also realistic enough to know that a former 2nd round pick isn't going to get cut a year or two into his first contract short of him murdering someone.  Davante Adams.  Remember how many posters were ready to cut him after his sophomore season?  Keep expectations realistic.  As for Murphy, I think we all knew the knock on him coming out of Stanford was that his feet weren't going to allow him to play LT and that his future lied at either RT or inside at guard.  Unfortunately, Spriggs' lack of progression forced the Packers to play Murphy at LT.  Murphy is a serviceable backup OT.  You could look to improve it, but given what the Packers invested in him you're probably not going to get a better bang for your buck than him.

Teams don't give up on high picks this early into their career.  If you want to fault TT for that, go right ahead.  You're not being realistic, but you're more than entitled to that opinion.

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1 minute ago, Cheech said:

But now we know that the position is thin because Spriggs and Murphy have proven that they aren't capable of filling in.  If Spriggs weren't healthy, he wouldn't be playing.  He's been the same guy for the last 2.5 years and hasn't shown a bit of improvement.  

That's not true at all.  McCarthy said that he and Bell were close, and that had it not been for that undisclosed issue Spriggs probably would have gotten the nod over Bell.

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1 minute ago, Cheech said:

But now we know that the position is thin because Spriggs and Murphy have proven that they aren't capable of filling in.  If Spriggs weren't healthy, he wouldn't be playing.  He's been the same guy for the last 2.5 years and hasn't shown a bit of improvement.  

Yeah Spriggs has struggled some of the draft gurus thought he could take some time. He's got all the tools just needs to put it together. Murphy is what he he's he's a guard or RT at best and can get us out of a game at LT. With Bahk and bulaga we're set but like most teams if either get hurt we'll be in trouble. As the other posted noted it's tough to have 3 starting tackles on your club unless one is on a rookie deal which is what we have.

As for last night Murphy wasn't too bad, can't play Bell over there he was terrible. Light looked ok. all in all i was quite happy with the line play although it seems like the **** didn't blitz that much same as us.

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1 minute ago, CWood21 said:

That's not true at all.  McCarthy said that he and Bell were close, and that had it not been for that undisclosed issue Spriggs probably would have gotten the nod over Bell.

Spriggs played after Bell.  So did they throw him out there injured?  Doubt it.  

I'm fine with Bell and Murphy as our swing G/T backups.  I'd like to see a true OT added via cut-downs or a trade before the regular season.  It isn't impossible to improve that position.  Heck, Don Barclay played better than almost all of those guys when he stepped in his rookie year.  

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2 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Spriggs played after Bell.  So did they throw him out there injured?  Doubt it.  

I'm fine with Bell and Murphy as our swing G/T backups.  I'd like to see a true OT added via cut-downs or a trade before the regular season.  It isn't impossible to improve that position.  Heck, Don Barclay played better than almost all of those guys when he stepped in his rookie year.  

Over the last 3 years, we've on average carried 9 OL.  We've carried 8 OL twice in the last four years, and we've carried 10 OL once in the last four years.  I think we're more likely to carry 8 OL than 10 OL, but I think they'd carry 9 OL if they had a developmental OL they really like.  You can include the five starters (Bakh, Taylor, Linsley, McCray, and Bulaga) as 5 of the OL.  You're going to need a swing tackle (Kyle Murphy) and an IOL (most likely Lucas Patrick IMO), so you've got one spot minimum that is between Byron Bell, Jason Spriggs, and the collection of IOL.  The guaranteed money attached to Bell makes me question how much the Packers would be willing to release him.

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10 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Over the last 3 years, we've on average carried 9 OL.  We've carried 8 OL twice in the last four years, and we've carried 10 OL once in the last four years.  I think we're more likely to carry 8 OL than 10 OL, but I think they'd carry 9 OL if they had a developmental OL they really like.  You can include the five starters (Bakh, Taylor, Linsley, McCray, and Bulaga) as 5 of the OL.  You're going to need a swing tackle (Kyle Murphy) and an IOL (most likely Lucas Patrick IMO), so you've got one spot minimum that is between Byron Bell, Jason Spriggs, and the collection of IOL.  The guaranteed money attached to Bell makes me question how much the Packers would be willing to release him.

Agree with it all.  

I just don't see Spriggs having the anchor that you need for the position or the ability to recover when he's beat initially.  Bulaga gets beat initially quite often, but he recovers so freaking quickly and then it is game over.  He's so dang good at re-setting himself.  Spriggs has to bend at the waist to protect himself from a bull rush.  As soon as he's beaten with speed or a rip move he looks like he's falling off of a skateboard. 

He's had 2.5 years to figure out how to bend at the knee and he can't do it.  He was supposed to be good as a pass protector while giving a bit up as a run blocker.  He's awful at both.  I don't really care when he was drafted, its time to move on.  

 

Edit:  I will say this - If the OL coach had Spriggs go back to his hands inside technique, rather than hands outside (which DB and Bulaga have perfected) I think Spriggs could actually be a replacement-level backup.  He's just not strong enough to play with his hands outside.  If he played more with his hands inside I think he could at least battle and stay in front of his man.  

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18 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Agree with it all.  

I just don't see Spriggs having the anchor that you need for the position or the ability to recover when he's beat initially.  Bulaga gets beat initially quite often, but he recovers so freaking quickly and then it is game over.  He's so dang good at re-setting himself.  Spriggs has to bend at the waist to protect himself from a bull rush.  As soon as he's beaten with speed or a rip move he looks like he's falling off of a skateboard. 

He's had 2.5 years to figure out how to bend at the knee and he can't do it.  He was supposed to be good as a pass protector while giving a bit up as a run blocker.  He's awful at both.  I don't really care when he was drafted, its time to move on.  

First off, he's been through two full seasons so I'm not totally sure where you're getting that half a season from.  That being said, you don't cut 2nd round picks this early into their contracts.  And you certainly don't do it to a position that is starved of talent.  Obviously, you don't cut rookies and you don't cut high draft picks after one season.  The only time you start discussing releasing high picks is after their 2nd year, which is why we're having this discussion.  And even in that situation, you're still hesitant to do so.

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