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Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

Packerraymond

By Packerraymond
in Green Bay Packers

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Cadmus

Cadmus

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cheech said:

I'm seeing a lot of CB lists as follows: King, Williams, Alexander, Jackson, House...

 

I think we need to reconsider the pecking order.

CB 1 - Jackson - a month ago, I thought he would be 4th on this list, too.  I didn't think his man coverage was up to snuff yet.  He's erased all of those doubts.  His comfort is playing 5-7 yards off of the line of scrimmage where he can read a route and jump it.  You just can't throw an out-breaking route against the guy.  He's made more splash plays vs. the pass than King did all of last year.  Best part? If he gets the snaps he deserves, Jackson will be better in week 6 than week 1.  

CB 2 - Williams - Like most QB's over 30, he's seen it all.  He still has the athleticism to play at a high level on the perimeter. 

CB 3 - Alexander - I have him ahead of King only because he plays in the slot.  I'd take King over Alexander on the perimeter.  Alexander has flashed some exciting potential in the PS as well.  He's got a bit of that Sam Shields recovery speed, a bit of the Casey Hayward instincts, and a lot of the Tramon Williams swag.  He's going to be fun to watch.  

CB 4 - King - If he wasn't injured I might not have thrown this post out there.  He did flash last year, but he wasn't a lock-down corner.  He really impressed me vs. the run, where he's clearly ahead of Jackson yet.  But he's also clearly slower out of his breaks.  If he stays healthy for the next 2-3 years, he and Jackson could be a great starting duo at CB.  

CB 5 - House - I would have had Pipkins here.  House will make the team and he's a decent guy to have out there as a 5th CB.  Hopefully he doesn't have to play major snaps.  

The rest...

Hawkins has his moments.  At best, he's a poor man's Sam Shields without the recovery speed.  He's a guy that will compete.  Goodson has great size and above average ST ability.  He just gets beat in coverage far too often.  Waters has his moments, but he's also way too inconsistent.  Rollins probably shouldn't be in the CB conversation at this point.  

 

You realize Waters has been playing ahead of the other CBs on "the rest" list (including Pipkins), correct? 

He's been out there with Alexander + Jackson after they've pulled House and Williams, and when King has been hurt. 

I don't know how anyone could have put Pipkins ahead of Waters before that trade.

It's like people don't even watch the games...

 

EDIT- NVM, I see that you've just listed King as our CB4... so I don't think it's worth my time.

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squire12

squire12

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Shanedorf said:

Monday 8/27 practice is final one of the 2018 Training Camp
Then they have 1 more game and 13 days to prep for the bears opener at Lambeau
 

 

And 30+ players to cut to get down to the 53-player roster.  Will be a very interesting week coming up.  

 

AND have to make room for Khalil Mack

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Cheech

Cheech

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, Cadmus said:

EDIT- NVM, I see that you've just listed King as our CB4... so I don't think it's worth my time.

This is the assumption that I think needs to be tested.  

King was undoubtedly our CB 1 last season.  But look at who he was playing with.  He flashed in coverage at times, but he also showed why he was projected in the third round before he lit up the combine.  He's not a flawless, lockdown corner that way to many people assume that he is due to draft position and the fact that he was the best of a bad group of CB's last season.

Jackson's draft story is opposite of King.  He produced in college and was viewed by most as a top CB coming out.  Until the combine where he struggled with his backpedal and ran a "slow" 40, so he dropped from the top 20 to 45.  

King is really good when he can press but struggled last year in zone.  Jackson was supposed to struggle in man but is really good in zone.  Except Jackson hasn't struggled with man coverage.  And he hasn't struggled at nickel.  And he's had the highest grade of any defensive player this preseason. 

 

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Cadmus

Cadmus

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Cheech said:

This is the assumption that I think needs to be tested.  

King was undoubtedly our CB 1 last season.  But look at who he was playing with.  He flashed in coverage at times, but he also showed why he was projected in the third round before he lit up the combine.  He's not a flawless, lockdown corner that way to many people assume that he is due to draft position and the fact that he was the best of a bad group of CB's last season.

Jackson's draft story is opposite of King.  He produced in college and was viewed by most as a top CB coming out.  Until the combine where he struggled with his backpedal and ran a "slow" 40, so he dropped from the top 20 to 45.  

King is really good when he can press but struggled last year in zone.  Jackson was supposed to struggle in man but is really good in zone.  Except Jackson hasn't struggled with man coverage.  And he hasn't struggled at nickel.  And he's had the highest grade of any defensive player this preseason. 

 

9 minutes ago, Cheech said:
30 minutes ago, Cadmus said:

EDIT- NVM, I see that you've just listed King as our CB4... so I don't think it's worth my time.

Confirmed. 

You just tried to explain King and Jackson to me.

I've watched all of King's snaps from last season. I'm well aware of the skills both CBs possess. 

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CWood21

CWood21

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Cheech said:

This is the assumption that I think needs to be tested.  

King was undoubtedly our CB 1 last season.  But look at who he was playing with.  He flashed in coverage at times, but he also showed why he was projected in the third round before he lit up the combine.  He's not a flawless, lockdown corner that way to many people assume that he is due to draft position and the fact that he was the best of a bad group of CB's last season.

Jackson's draft story is opposite of King.  He produced in college and was viewed by most as a top CB coming out.  Until the combine where he struggled with his backpedal and ran a "slow" 40, so he dropped from the top 20 to 45.  

King is really good when he can press but struggled last year in zone.  Jackson was supposed to struggle in man but is really good in zone.  Except Jackson hasn't struggled with man coverage.  And he hasn't struggled at nickel.  And he's had the highest grade of any defensive player this preseason. 

Someone's memory is a bit fuzzy.  Kevin King was viewed largely as a Day 2 prospect because people projected him to test average, and tested incredibly well.  Nobody believed he was an elite athlete based on the tape, although the play wasn't the issue.  His tape was good.  He had some issues in terms of getting to grabby, but the tape was as strong as anyone not named Marshon Lattimore.  Personally, I had Marlon Humphrey and Gareon Conley a bit higher, but they were in a similarish tier.

As for Josh Jackson, he had one great season but was a largely polarizing prospect.  Most viewed him as a questionable fit in a man-scheme, and saw him as a near perfect fit in a  zone-based scheme.  And the numbers at the Combine confirmed that he wasn't a great athlete, which most already knew.  Anyone who watched him play at Iowa knew his Combine numbers weren't an anomaly.

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Cheech

Cheech

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, CWood21 said:

Someone's memory is a bit fuzzy.  Kevin King was viewed largely as a Day 2 prospect because people projected him to test average, and tested incredibly well.  Nobody believed he was an elite athlete based on the tape, although the play wasn't the issue.  His tape was good.  He had some issues in terms of getting to grabby, but the tape was as strong as anyone not named Marshon Lattimore.  Personally, I had Marlon Humphrey and Gareon Conley a bit higher, but they were in a similarish tier.

As for Josh Jackson, he had one great season but was a largely polarizing prospect.  Most viewed him as a questionable fit in a man-scheme, and saw him as a near perfect fit in a  zone-based scheme.  And the numbers at the Combine confirmed that he wasn't a great athlete, which most already knew.  Anyone who watched him play at Iowa knew his Combine numbers weren't an anomaly.

Funny, I watched every snap of Jackson's at and I never questioned his athleticism.  Some were concerned with his speed, but he lacks nothing athletically.  

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CWood21

CWood21

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, Cheech said:

Funny, I watched every snap of Jackson's at and I never questioned his athleticism.  Some were concerned with his speed, but he lacks nothing athletically.  

I'd love to know which games you watched that you didn't come away believing that he was a questionable fit in a man-based scheme. 

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