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Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread

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49 minutes ago, Greg C. said:

Agreed. Cutting Nelson and signing Graham was the best move of the off-season, in my opinion.  I just hope Aaron Rodgers can develop half the chemistry with Graham that he had with Nelson. 

If that's the best move we did an awful job lol

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I really think that the addition of Graham, combined with a return to the slot is going to be very good for Randall Cobb.  

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I'm still predicting we add a veteran #2 WR not named Dez down the road somehow. Gute is proving to be a very patient GM. He is waiting for the right opportunity. I see it shaking out as Adams, vet #2?, Cobb, Moore, ESB, and the best gunner from the rest of the young guys. I also can't see us standing pat at TE. They'll be another TE coming in from somewhere, somehow. Again Gute's waiting patiently for the right opportunity. Gute's not done yet. Don't mistake Gute's patience for TT's over reliance on D&D. 

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14 hours ago, NormSizedMidget said:

If that's the best move we did an awful job lol

I miss Jordy too, but he was NOT the guy people are remembering.  You all watched him the last half of the year.  He was not even mediocre.  Without Aaron throwing him open he was not very good.  Here's another stat (I hate stats) that paints a picture of what Jordy was last year:

Interesting note from PFF on a former Packers wide out:

The worst catch rates in contested situations among all WRs with at least 14 opportunities in 2017:

1. Jordy Nelson (13.3%)
2. Amari Cooper (14.3%)
3. Seth Roberts (21.4%)

— Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) May 15, 2018
It was time for him to go.

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20 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

I miss Jordy too, but he was NOT the guy people are remembering.  You all watched him the last half of the year.  He was not even mediocre.  Without Aaron throwing him open he was not very good.  Here's another stat (I hate stats) that paints a picture of what Jordy was last year:

Interesting note from PFF on a former Packers wide out:

The worst catch rates in contested situations among all WRs with at least 14 opportunities in 2017:

1. Jordy Nelson (13.3%)
2. Amari Cooper (14.3%)
3. Seth Roberts (21.4%)

— Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) May 15, 2018
It was time for him to go.

I think you missed the point, perhaps Norm can spell it out in his unique words...I'll try mine.

Signing an aging tight end with a rebuilt knee after releasing an aging wide receiver with a rebuilt knee should not be considered the GM's "best move".  He's done much better than that.

Yes, we all know that Jordy from last year was not the Jordy we came to know and love.  I still maintain that he deserved better than what Gute gave him...I'd have preferred he received the Driver treatment, but that is just me.

To me, Gute has done some pretty darned good things.  Despite the character concerns, Mo for $5M was a great move.  He worked the draft very, very well and snagged us not one, but two top corner prospects.  Loaded up the barren WR shelf with size/speed projects.  Got a linebacker/safety with some size and speed.  He really made the team faster and arguably bigger.

All of those things, to me, are much, much better than the releasing of Nelson and signing of Graham.

 

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19 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

I think you missed the point, perhaps Norm can spell it out in his unique words...I'll try mine.

Signing an aging tight end with a rebuilt knee after releasing an aging wide receiver with a rebuilt knee should not be considered the GM's "best move".  He's done much better than that.

Yes, we all know that Jordy from last year was not the Jordy we came to know and love.  I still maintain that he deserved better than what Gute gave him...I'd have preferred he received the Driver treatment, but that is just me.

To me, Gute has done some pretty darned good things.  Despite the character concerns, Mo for $5M was a great move.  He worked the draft very, very well and snagged us not one, but two top corner prospects.  Loaded up the barren WR shelf with size/speed projects.  Got a linebacker/safety with some size and speed.  He really made the team faster and arguably bigger.

All of those things, to me, are much, much better than the releasing of Nelson and signing of Graham.

 

Driver's final season he earned what would adjust to ~$3.2 in 2018. That's about a quarter of what Nelson was set to make. That's a much steeper price to pay to be the good guy and send off a beloved player the right way. If the price to do so was the same for Jordy as it was for Driver I'd be all for it (as I bet the FO would have) but they are two vastly different situations. 

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32 minutes ago, wgbeethree said:

Driver's final season he earned what would adjust to ~$3.2 in 2018. That's about a quarter of what Nelson was set to make. That's a much steeper price to pay to be the good guy and send off a beloved player the right way. If the price to do so was the same for Jordy as it was for Driver I'd be all for it (as I bet the FO would have) but they are two vastly different situations. 

Curious...how do you come to $3.2?  The word "adjust" is throwing me...  You take into account inflation or something like that?  % of cap?

I was thinking Jordy for about $5M.  Doubt he'd move cross country to learn a new offense for $2M, but who knows.

I think for $5M, he also would have played more and contributed more than Driver in his last season.  But still, I personally would have preferred the Driver treatment for him.  By all reports, he was only offered the vets minimum....

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Why are people so upset about Jordy? All the complaints during the year were about how slow the WRs in Green Bay have gotten and how terrible the TE group was. Jimmy Graham even at his age is vastly superior to anything we have fielded recently. Jordy's speed is gone. With this class we got vastly faster and more athletic. Its yet to be seen if any of the drafted players will be good WRs but I have a strong suspicion at least one will be producing at a high level very very soon. 

 

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1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

I miss Jordy too, but he was NOT the guy people are remembering.  You all watched him the last half of the year.  He was not even mediocre.  Without Aaron throwing him open he was not very good.  Here's another stat (I hate stats) that paints a picture of what Jordy was last year:

Interesting note from PFF on a former Packers wide out:

The worst catch rates in contested situations among all WRs with at least 14 opportunities in 2017:

1. Jordy Nelson (13.3%)
2. Amari Cooper (14.3%)
3. Seth Roberts (21.4%)

— Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) May 15, 2018
It was time for him to go.

I'd like to see that rate before Rodgers got hurt

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3 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

Why are people so upset about Jordy? All the complaints during the year were about how slow the WRs in Green Bay have gotten and how terrible the TE group was. Jimmy Graham even at his age is vastly superior to anything we have fielded recently. Jordy's speed is gone. With this class we got vastly faster and more athletic. Its yet to be seen if any of the drafted players will be good WRs but I have a strong suspicion at least one will be producing at a high level very very soon. 

 

Yet people think Allison will start. And I never complained about speed once.

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50 minutes ago, Dubz41 said:

Interesting note from PFF on a former Packers wide out:

 

The worst catch rates in contested situations among all WRs with at least 14 opportunities in 2017:

1. Jordy Nelson (13.3%)
2. Amari Cooper (14.3%)
3. Seth Roberts (21.4%)

— Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) May 15, 2018
It was time for him to go.

All Raiders. 

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15 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

Yet people think Allison will start. And I never complained about speed once.

But you have to agree that speed was brought up ALOT in these forums regarding the Packers WR group. 

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4 minutes ago, Spartacus said:

But you have to agree that speed was brought up ALOT in these forums regarding the Packers WR group. 

No doubt. I'm the most "anti speed" guy here so I notice lol

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1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Why are people so upset about Jordy? All the complaints during the year were about how slow the WRs in Green Bay have gotten and how terrible the TE group was. Jimmy Graham even at his age is vastly superior to anything we have fielded recently. Jordy's speed is gone. With this class we got vastly faster and more athletic. Its yet to be seen if any of the drafted players will be good WRs but I have a strong suspicion at least one will be producing at a high level very very soon. 

 

Maybe you didn't mean me when you say "why are people so upset about Jordy?"  I'm not upset.  I get it.  Here's what I'd like...a #2 boundary WR that will get 900 yards and threaten double digit TD's.  I thought that could be Jordy with Rodgers...and I thought $5M would be a nice payday to get that.

I want to see Graham before I think they he will be "vastly superior" to anything we have fielded recently.  From the little I saw of him over the past 3 years...admittedly that is a small sample...but he looked slow.  I"m sure he can overcome that lack of speed due to catch radium and veteran smarts, but I'm not thinking I'll see him downfield like I saw Cook downfield.

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5 hours ago, Dubz41 said:

I miss Jordy too, but he was NOT the guy people are remembering.  You all watched him the last half of the year.  He was not even mediocre.  Without Aaron throwing him open he was not very good.  Here's another stat (I hate stats) that paints a picture of what Jordy was last year:

Interesting note from PFF on a former Packers wide out:

The worst catch rates in contested situations among all WRs with at least 14 opportunities in 2017:

1. Jordy Nelson (13.3%)
2. Amari Cooper (14.3%)
3. Seth Roberts (21.4%)

— Mike Renner (@PFF_Mike) May 15, 2018
It was time for him to go.

So does this mean that Oakland should move on from Amari Cooper or is this standard just for Jordy Nelson?  Jordy Nelson was leading this team in both yards per game and TDs per game (leading the NFL in this category) at the time of the AR12 injury.  He was fresh off a 90+ catch, 1250 yard, 16 TD season the year prior. 

 

I'm not going to get wrapped around the axel about how he played without AR12 because none of our WRs were much more than pedestrian.  We just gave Adams a huge new contract and he was 19th in the NFL in catches and outside the top 20 in receiving yards.  Cobb was worse than that being outside the top 25 in catches and outside of the top 50 in receiving yards. 

 

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