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Packers Off-season Mini-Camp/Training Camp Discussion Thread


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7 minutes ago, packfanfb said:

Then why were you calling for us to sign a vet WR all off-season up until now? 

We drafted 3 WRs, I wouldn't mind if we added Bryant or Maclin. If we don't, no part of me is worried. I'd like to add a vet at OG, EDGE and S too, but it is what it is. No team is going to have perfect depth at every spot.

We aren't carrying over 14m, we need to see if Aaron's deal is going to take that away or add to it and then we'll know if we are going to add vets.

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12 hours ago, packfanfb said:

Typical exaggeration. No one has said this. Rather, the point is simply that maybe the Packers shouldnt be satisfied at a starting WR position with an poor-athlete UDFA and three rookies who no team in the NFL felt was worthy of a top 130 draft pick. 

I said it.  This is the worst roster I can remember GB having in a very long time.

I watched the Rodgers Super Bowl again.  Man we were loaded.  Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Finley (injured).  Very good line.

Collins, Woodson, young Clay.  Man young Clay was good.  Quick, violent, explosive.  He just isn't that guy anymore.

And since that Super Bowl, I thought our roster was always full of those ascending young players.  I thought GB was ready to explode with talent the last year years.  And this year I just don't feel the same way.

We are fine.  Rodgers will win us games...again.  But I don't think the roster is as good as it has been the last 5-6 years.  There is room for optimism, though.  To me, that 2015 draft really, really hurts right now.  3 starters from 2014.  HHCD, Adams, Lindsley.  No real quality backups.  Only one starter from 2013.  Bakh.  No backups left.  2 starters from 2016.  Clark and Martinez.  One, maybe two quality backups.  Lowry and Murphy.

I'm thinking that next year, though, I'll be pretty excited to see the second year development out of this draft class.

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15 hours ago, SSG said:

They out produced Jordy but their production was far from fine IMO.  Adams was 19th in receptions and outside the top 20 in receiving yards last year.  Not all impressive when you look at the massive extension he got.  Cobb was worse than that.  He was outside the top 25 in catches and outside the top 50 in receiving yards.

I'm not one that is going to get wrapped around the axel about production with Hundley as QB.  We seen the frustration Jordy had last year with their lack of chemistry and the fact that they were often on different pages.  We also seen Jordy missed when wide open on a good number of occasions.  

Jordy was fresh off a 90 catch, 1250 yard and 16 TD season less than a year removed from ACL surgery.  I find it hard to believe that he lost all his ability in a couple months.  

Adams averaged close to 70 yards and a touchdown per game with Hundley. That's more than just fine. 

Cobb averaged 35 yards a game. Given his subpar play the past few seasons, I feel like we couldn't ask for much more given who was throwing the ball. 

What's not fine is getting 160 yards over eight games out of a 13 million dollar man and your supposed #1. Did Hundley miss him at times? Sure; but he missed Adams and Cobb too. And they still found ways to help the team week to week. 

If you need all-pro QB play to produce, that's telling. Love Jordy. But he either has lost it, or packed it in last year. Given who were talking about, I don't think he quit. 

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10 minutes ago, smetana34 said:

Adams averaged close to 70 yards and a touchdown per game with Hundley. That's more than just fine. 

Cobb averaged 35 yards a game. Given his subpar play the past few seasons, I feel like we couldn't ask for much more given who was throwing the ball. 

What's not fine is getting 160 yards over eight games out of a 13 million dollar man and your supposed #1. Did Hundley miss him at times? Sure; but he missed Adams and Cobb too. And they still found ways to help the team week to week. 

If you need all-pro QB play to produce, that's telling. Love Jordy. But he either has lost it, or packed it in last year. Given who were talking about, I don't think he quit. 

I don't think its telling at all.  Randy Moss was terrible in his last year in Oakland.  Moss, one of the best WRs in NFL history required a competent QB to become relevant again.  While Jordy isn't Moss he was fresh off a season in which he put up elite receiving numbers (he was our best WR by a large margin).  His production drop directly coincides with the switch in QB.  Prior to the switch he lead the team in TDs per game (he also lead the entire NFL) and yards per game. 

I'm not going to ignore 100% of Nelson's 2016 season or the season he was having prior to the injury because he struggled with Hundley as the QB.  Chemistry between a QB and WR is so important and its clear to anyone who wanted to pay attention that Nelson and Hundley had none.  They were on entirely different pages. 

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3 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We drafted 3 WRs, I wouldn't mind if we added Bryant or Maclin. If we don't, no part of me is worried. I'd like to add a vet at OG, EDGE and S too, but it is what it is. No team is going to have perfect depth at every spot.

We aren't carrying over 14m, we need to see if Aaron's deal is going to take that away or add to it and then we'll know if we are going to add vets.

I 100% agree with you. 

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54 minutes ago, SSG said:

I don't think its telling at all.  Randy Moss was terrible in his last year in Oakland.  Moss, one of the best WRs in NFL history required a competent QB to become relevant again.  While Jordy isn't Moss he was fresh off a season in which he put up elite receiving numbers (he was our best WR by a large margin).  His production drop directly coincides with the switch in QB.  Prior to the switch he lead the team in TDs per game (he also lead the entire NFL) and yards per game. 

I'm not going to ignore 100% of Nelson's 2016 season or the season he was having prior to the injury because he struggled with Hundley as the QB.  Chemistry between a QB and WR is so important and its clear to anyone who wanted to pay attention that Nelson and Hundley had none.  They were on entirely different pages. 

Could it be possible that both Jordy isn't as talented and that Rodgers has become too safe forcing the ball to him. Could we see a situation like Stafford after Johnson that he actually becomes a better passer because he is not just looking for one WR on the majority of the plays? 

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56 minutes ago, SSG said:

I don't think its telling at all.  Randy Moss was terrible in his last year in Oakland.  Moss, one of the best WRs in NFL history required a competent QB to become relevant again.  While Jordy isn't Moss he was fresh off a season in which he put up elite receiving numbers (he was our best WR by a large margin).  His production drop directly coincides with the switch in QB.  Prior to the switch he lead the team in TDs per game (he also lead the entire NFL) and yards per game. 

I'm not going to ignore 100% of Nelson's 2016 season or the season he was having prior to the injury because he struggled with Hundley as the QB.  Chemistry between a QB and WR is so important and its clear to anyone who wanted to pay attention that Nelson and Hundley had none.  They were on entirely different pages. 

Moss quit due to the situation. Do we think Jordy quit?

TDs are nice. But I believe all of them came within 10 yards, three of them inside 5 yards. Anybody on our team could've done that; it wasn't Jordy being Jordy and beating a man deep or anything of the like. 

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3 hours ago, Packerraymond said:

We drafted 3 WRs, I wouldn't mind if we added Bryant or Maclin. If we don't, no part of me is worried. I'd like to add a vet at OG, EDGE and S too, but it is what it is. No team is going to have perfect depth at every spot.

We aren't carrying over 14m, we need to see if Aaron's deal is going to take that away or add to it and then we'll know if we are going to add vets.

Hope not. That's Ted's way of doing things and it hasn't worked in a long time. Hopefully Gute knows better. I can live with what we have at OG and S. It's all about EDGE and WR for me, way too much unnecessary risk at both positions at it currently stands. 

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22 minutes ago, smetana34 said:

Moss quit due to the situation. Do we think Jordy quit?

TDs are nice. But I believe all of them came within 10 yards, three of them inside 5 yards. Anybody on our team could've done that; it wasn't Jordy being Jordy and beating a man deep or anything of the like. 

Quit, no?  Stopped trying so hard because the team was horrid  and because he couldn't get on the same page with an inept QB, yes. 

You are mistaken.  He had a 32 yard TD in the opener against Seattle, which was AR12 longest completion of the day.  Matter of fact, Jordy was responsible for the longest completion  in 2 of the 4 games he played in.  He was our best WR before AR12 went down, the production shows it IMO. 

Jordy was being Jordy though!  He was a 90 catch, 1250 yard, 16 TD player in 2016.  Through his first 4 full games in 2016 he had 2 more catches, 21 fewer yards and 1 fewer TD that he had last year prior to the AR12 injury.  While he's not the guy he was 5 years ago but he was exactly the same player he was the year prior when he put up elite receiving numbers and helped carry our offense into the playoffs.  I don't agree with the idea that Jordy suddenly lost all his ability when Hundley became QB. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Spartacus said:

Could it be possible that both Jordy isn't as talented and that Rodgers has become too safe forcing the ball to him. Could we see a situation like Stafford after Johnson that he actually becomes a better passer because he is not just looking for one WR on the majority of the plays? 

Maybe, though I doubt it.  Rarely does an offense get better when talent is subtracted.  AR12 wasn't targeting Jordy Nelson simply because they are friends.  Jordy Nelson has been our most talented WR by a large margin. 

I'd also argue that Matt Stafford isn't any better of a passer without Calvin.  He might be a little more efficient but he isn't nearly as productive.  Even then, Detroit replaced Johnson with a high priced, 1100 yard 9 TD WR not a guy a bottom of the roster WR who would struggle to make most NFL rosters. 

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3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I said it.  This is the worst roster I can remember GB having in a very long time.

I watched the Rodgers Super Bowl again.  Man we were loaded.  Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Finley (injured).  Very good line.

Collins, Woodson, young Clay.  Man young Clay was good.  Quick, violent, explosive.  He just isn't that guy anymore.

And since that Super Bowl, I thought our roster was always full of those ascending young players.  I thought GB was ready to explode with talent the last year years.  And this year I just don't feel the same way.

We are fine.  Rodgers will win us games...again.  But I don't think the roster is as good as it has been the last 5-6 years.  There is room for optimism, though.  To me, that 2015 draft really, really hurts right now.  3 starters from 2014.  HHCD, Adams, Lindsley.  No real quality backups.  Only one starter from 2013.  Bakh.  No backups left.  2 starters from 2016.  Clark and Martinez.  One, maybe two quality backups.  Lowry and Murphy.

I'm thinking that next year, though, I'll be pretty excited to see the second year development out of this draft class.

Hindsight is 50/50. Rewind to the beginning of 2010and see how you felt about the players who became stars in that defense. Shields was a udfa rookie. Tramon was coming off two pretty promising years but had never started a full season.  Behind those two and woodson on the depth chart were Pat Lee, Jarett Bush, and Brandon Underwood. Rookie Burnett was starting the season because of Bigby’s contract issues. Ryan grant got 8 carries and then you were looking at Brandon Jackson and rookie starks to carry you through the season. 

 

In the end, I’m not going to disagree that this roster isn’t as good as the superbowl one, but you also have to recognize that we were also playing a bunch of young guys back then too and when you look back, you read them as quality contributors, but when you look forward, you read the current crop as question marks. 

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27 minutes ago, Cakeshoppe said:

Hindsight is 50/50. Rewind to the beginning of 2010and see how you felt about the players who became stars in that defense. Shields was a udfa rookie. Tramon was coming off two pretty promising years but had never started a full season.  Behind those two and woodson on the depth chart were Pat Lee, Jarett Bush, and Brandon Underwood. Rookie Burnett was starting the season because of Bigby’s contract issues. Ryan grant got 8 carries and then you were looking at Brandon Jackson and rookie starks to carry you through the season. 

 

In the end, I’m not going to disagree that this roster isn’t as good as the superbowl one, but you also have to recognize that we were also playing a bunch of young guys back then too and when you look back, you read them as quality contributors, but when you look forward, you read the current crop as question marks. 

This isn't "hindsight".

You are missing some pretty big contributors.  Do we have a Woodson, or young Matthews on defense?  Say nothing about Nick Collins, Cullen Jenkins or Ryan Pickett.  Bishop was a very good ILB that year.  Tramon was very, very good.  And Tramon is exactly what I'm talking about...ascending young players.  Shields was a bonus that year.  I'd love it is either of our rookies are as good in their first year as Sammy was.

Said it then, I'll say it again now.  When Jarret Bush is your end of the bench corner, you are in a great position.  As he showed in the Super Bowl.

Running back wise, we were weak there...and inexperienced.  Thinking that Starks got healthy and gave that a little spark.

GB just doesn't have that high end talent like that Super Bowl team.  Not saying the team is bad.  They aren't.  But they also aren't great like some of the past teams.  I've been more optimistic in the past about the young talent on the roster than I am this year.  And that will probably change next year when we get the third year with King/Jones and this rookie class gets the second year jump.

 

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6 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I said it.  This is the worst roster I can remember GB having in a very long time.

I watched the Rodgers Super Bowl again.  Man we were loaded.  Jennings, Jones, Nelson, Finley (injured).  Very good line.

Collins, Woodson, young Clay.  Man young Clay was good.  Quick, violent, explosive.  He just isn't that guy anymore.

And since that Super Bowl, I thought our roster was always full of those ascending young players.  I thought GB was ready to explode with talent the last year years.  And this year I just don't feel the same way.

We are fine.  Rodgers will win us games...again.  But I don't think the roster is as good as it has been the last 5-6 years.  There is room for optimism, though.  To me, that 2015 draft really, really hurts right now.  3 starters from 2014.  HHCD, Adams, Lindsley.  No real quality backups.  Only one starter from 2013.  Bakh.  No backups left.  2 starters from 2016.  Clark and Martinez.  One, maybe two quality backups.  Lowry and Murphy.

I'm thinking that next year, though, I'll be pretty excited to see the second year development out of this draft class.

Darren College was undewhelming as hell, but that was probably the last year before Clifton started burning out. Man do I miss young Clay... Which straw broke the camel's back?

Ryan is a decent backup, but you can find run stopping ILB at any supermarket in America. DR23 was a starter, but his attitude was untenable. 

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